Position rankings: Point guards

[anakha]

No way. It was Bruce Bowen and period.

Wasn't Bowen primarily on Anthony and Parker on Iverson?

[Cry Havoc]

Parker's assist numbers have nothing to do with the balance of the team. It's the fact that Parker has always had a shoot first mentality. The Suns are balanced with pretty even scoring all around but Nash still runs the show and gets all the assists. If Parker is going to be primarily a scorer as opposed to a distributor, he's going to have to average more than 17-19 ppg to be considered a top 2 or 3 point guard.

Although on second thought, you are probably right about ranking Iverson ahead of Williams

So you're ranking Parker lower because of his shoot-first mentality.... yet you're ranking Iverson a step ahead of him, and now considering taking him over Deron?

That's puzzling.

I think Deron will put all the talk to rest this year and become a top 3 guard in the league. He might not get the recognition until the playoffs though, because he plays much better in the clutch.

[mavs>spurs2]

So you're ranking Parker lower because of his shoot-first mentality.... yet you're ranking Iverson a step ahead of him, and now considering taking him over Deron?

That's puzzling.

I think Deron will put all the talk to rest this year and become a top 3 guard in the league. He might not get the recognition until the playoffs though, because he plays much better in the clutch.

Iverson may have a shoot-first mentality, but it's something he's improving on he did average 7.2 assists last season.

Anyway i'll take the shoot first guy that scores 30 over the shoot first guy who averages 18. If Tony can develop his game and become a better distributor, as well as continuing to work on his shot it will be a whole different ball game. I can see him and Deron Williams being the undisputed best 2 point guards in the league in a few years, with Chris Paul a distand 3rd.

[da_suns_fan__]

Parker is still riding the wave of earning a finals MVP against a vastly inferior team.

Once the season starts, people will remember that he's a quick penentrator and finisher, but nothing more.

[romain.star]

next season, we'll know if tony is a top 1-2 PG (therefore a mvp contender) or "just" an all star PG... (which is quite good too)

[ALVAREZ6]

that's fantasy rankings, nothing to deal with the level of play...
On nba.com, manu is #14 and Barry #39 as SG, Bruce is #39 as SF, Tim #4 as PF (damn Bosh is ahead of him!!!!)

http://www.nba.com/fantasy/draft_kit/home.html

Wow...thanks for clearing that up. I thought these dudes were actually ranking the PGs that way...I was wondering WTF they were smoking.

[Indazone]

Parker is a great guard. Horrible Fantasy player though. Never shoots 3's and his rebounds and assists are low. Scores a bunch of points though.

[yourcheatinheart]

Since I'm new to this board I'll give y'all a taste of my standard Steve Nash rant. How can "experts" rank him #1 and describe him as a basketball genius when his defense is such a HUGE liability. I just don't get the whole "yeah his defense blows, but his offensive game makes him a league MVP" thing. Were any other back-to-back MVP's defensive liabilities? The point is--- he isn't just average on defense, he sucks hard. Every time he plays a top 10 PG he gets torched. And then people wonder why the Suns struggle against the top tier teams. He can't stay in front of opponents who are quick to the basket.
IMO to be the best player at a position in the NBA, you have to be able to play BOTH sides of the court.
Steve Nash is the most overrated player in the history of the NBA.

some serious point guard penis envy over here.

[yourcheatinheart]

Looks like a pretty decent list.

No one has really ever questioned Baron Davis' talent. It's his love for fast food and cake that has led to so many injuries that people have questioned. Talent wise, I have no problem with him being where he's at. But, is this the year he stays fit and healthy enough to be that player night in and night out and justify people believing him to be that good all the time?

As for Steve Nash, while he's always been criticized for his lack of defense, I will say a few things. Last year, watching the Suns, Steve Nash's poor defense is not due to a lack of trying. I see him try to play defense. He's just not very good at it. And, while it is a fair criticism, Steve Nash's liabilities on defense are not really a detriment to his team's chances to win on any given night. What he gives up in defense, he generally makes up for it on offense, controlling tempo, getting his teammates a lot of open and easy looks, and making the Suns really effective overall. Generally, when the Suns lose, it's not because of Steve Nash's defense. On that team, in that system, those liabilities don't matter as much. Like I said, it's a fair criticism. But, he does more to help his team win than those defensive problems do to make his team lose.

Tony Parker isn't exactly a defensive stalwart either, but most people (and not just Spurs fans) would have no problem where he's ranked.

[ducks]

Parker's assist numbers have nothing to do with the balance of the team. It's the fact that Parker has always had a shoot first mentality. The Suns are balanced with pretty even scoring all around but Nash still runs the show and gets all the assists. If Parker is going to be primarily a scorer as opposed to a distributor, he's going to have to average more than 17-19 ppg to be considered a top 2 or 3 point guard.

Although on second thought, you are probably right about ranking Iverson ahead of Williams

you have no clue do you. you have no idea how spurs run their o

[ducks]

Parker is a great guard. Horrible Fantasy player though. Never shoots 3's and his rebounds and assists are low. Scores a bunch of points though.

that will chance some this year
beware of the three bomb

[1Parker1]

Anyway i'll take the shoot first guy that scores 30 over the shoot first guy who averages 18. If Tony can develop his game and become a better distributor, as well as continuing to work on his shot it will be a whole different ball game.

So you'd take a guy who can score 30 on 40% shooting over a guy who averages 19 on a team with tim duncan as the primary scorer on 50%+ shooting?? That's a little illogical. As is your overreliance on statistics alone of ppg and assists per game to decide who the top 10 pg's are.

[mavs>spurs2]

So you'd take a guy who can score 30 on 40% shooting over a guy who averages 19 on a team with tim duncan as the primary scorer on 50%+ shooting?? That's a little illogical. As is your overreliance on statistics alone of ppg and assists per game to decide who the top 10 pg's are.

Where did I rely on stats other than just that one comparison?

And yes, I would take AI over Parker as of today

[mavs>spurs2]

you have no clue do you. you have no idea how spurs run their o

englighten me genius

[ambchang]

No way. It was Bruce Bowen and period.

I thought Bowen was on Carmelo Anthony?

[1Parker1]

Where did I rely on stats other than just that one comparison?

6. Tony Parker- Would be ranked higher, but his 5.5 apg average is very sub par for a top point guard.

If Parker is going to be primarily a scorer as opposed to a distributor, he's going to have to average more than 17-19 ppg to be considered a top 2 or 3 point guard.

Anyway i'll take the shoot first guy that scores 30 over the shoot first guy who averages 18.

I'd say you were relying on stats alone to make your assumptions.

[mavs>spurs2]

I thought Bowen was on Carmelo Anthony?

That guy is clueless.

You are correct, Bowen was on Melo and Parker did a pretty good job on Iverson

[mavs>spurs2]

I'd say you were relying on stats alone to make your assumptions.

You were referring to the way I ranked Tony Parker? Or the entire list?

[1Parker1]

You were referring to the way I ranked Tony Parker? Or the entire list?

What difference is it? I was mainly referring to your views on Parker. You are using his stats to somehow determine how effective and good a player he is.

He averages 5.5 apg, which isn't high, but considering how the Spurs run their offense, it'd be pretty hard for anyone to have a high assist stat on this team. In Pheonix and New Jersey, Nash and Kidd are the primary ball handlers...their job is pass the perfect pass to the player for them to score. In the Spurs offense, Parker may drive to the hole, pass out to the open teammate who then passes to another open guy for the assist. When you have so many good passers on a team as the Spurs do, it's not always going to show up on some stat sheet which player made the assist which led to the assist, etc.

He averages "only" 18-19 ppg and to you he needs a higher stat than that to be considered a top 2-3 pg?? Doesn't make sense. He isn't the best player on the Spurs team, that goes to Tim Duncan. He isn't the #1 option on the team, again that goes to Tim Duncan. So it's actually pretty amazing that he can still manage 18-19 ppg on a much lower shot attempts per game than say an Allen Iverson.


You say you'd rather take a guy who can give you 30 a night than 18-19 ppg?? Again, you're just looking at stats. Did you see the first round series against Denver last season? I live in Philly and I love Iverson, but his 30 ppg that he can give you is a misleading stat. I'd say I'd rather have a guy who can give me 18-19 on 52% shooting on 14 shot attempts than a guy who's going to give me 30 on 43% shooting and 24-26 shot attempts.


Beside all that, other than arguably Jason Kidd, Parker is the only player who has shown he can be clutch in the postseason when it matters most. That's really the only stat I'd care about.

[mavs>spurs2]

What difference is it? I was mainly referring to your views on Parker. You are using his stats to somehow determine how effective and good a player he is.

He averages 5.5 apg, which isn't high, but considering how the Spurs run their offense, it'd be pretty hard for anyone to have a high assist stat on this team. In Pheonix and New Jersey, Nash and Kidd are the primary ball handlers...their job is pass the perfect pass to the player for them to score. In the Spurs offense, Parker may drive to the hole, pass out to the open teammate who then passes to another open guy for the assist. When you have so many good passers on a team as the Spurs do, it's not always going to show up on some stat sheet which player made the assist which led to the assist, etc.

He averages "only" 18-19 ppg and to you he needs a higher stat than that to be considered a top 2-3 pg?? Doesn't make sense. He isn't the best player on the Spurs team, that goes to Tim Duncan. He isn't the #1 option on the team, again that goes to Tim Duncan. So it's actually pretty amazing that he can still manage 18-19 ppg on a much lower shot attempts per game than say an Allen Iverson.


You say you'd rather take a guy who can give you 30 a night than 18-19 ppg?? Again, you're just looking at stats. Did you see the first round series against Denver last season? I live in Philly and I love Iverson, but his 30 ppg that he can give you is a misleading stat. I'd say I'd rather have a guy who can give me 18-19 on 52% shooting on 14 shot attempts than a guy who's going to give me 30 on 43% shooting and 24-26 shot attempts.


Beside all that, other than arguably Jason Kidd, Parker is the only player who has shown he can be clutch in the postseason when it matters most. That's really the only stat I'd care about.

Both Parker and Iverson averaged 1.3 points per shot last season. This means that both players score 1.3 points for every shot they take, regardless of attempts. Although Iverson is shooting more, he's also scoring more and the ratio is the same. They actually score with the same efficiency, this is because Iverson's ability to get to the line offsets his lower fg%. Of course his fg% is lower because he's not feeding off of Tim Duncan's team play and ability to draw double teams and open things up for others. Iverson has been the focal point of every defense he has gone up against in his career. Take away Tim Duncan, and you will see Parkers fg% dive into the mid 40's because he will become the focal point of the defense.

[barbacoataco]

Agree. Stats aren't everything. Assists have a lot to do with the type of offense you run and the plays that you run.

[Fast Dunk]

Stupid List, Parker better than Iverson, Baron Davis, Gilbert Arenas?? Bwahahahahaha

Crazy delusional Spurs fans, I know this guy Tony Mejia likes to kiss Spurs butt...

Parker don't deserve to be in that position.

[anakha]

Stupid List, Parker better than Iverson, Baron Davis, Gilbert Arenas?? Bwahahahahaha

Crazy delusional Spurs fans, I know this guy Tony Mejia likes to kiss Spurs butt...

Parker don't deserve to be in that position.

Oops, looks like louis forgot to take his meds again today.