No bull: Mavericks' Howard may be a Pippen clone

[mavs>spurs2]

If you think that way than Pippen is one of the most overrated defenders of all-time. He was a solid defender though but no Bruce Bowen.

Pippen was probably the best perimeter defender of all time, although Bowen is good too. The thing about Pippen is he is so underrated from living in Jordans shadow throughout his prime. , even Pippens defense was overshadowed because Michael was one of the best perimeter defenders to play the game as well.

[ambchang]

Sorry I disagree. THe bulls were so great because Jordan was unstoppable and Pippen complimented his game very well. Pippen was not great at anything but he had no weaknesses. He was a solid scorer, defender, and rebounder and ran the floor well on fast breaks. Jordan was just as good of a defender as Pippen was as well. Jordan>>>>Pippen.

Hmmm ... first, just because Jordan is as good a defender as Pippen doesn't mean that Pippen wasn't good, it meant that Pippen was fantastic, because Jordan was widely known as one of the best defensive players in the history of the league (which I don't necessarily agree).
Pippen was on 8 All-D 1st team, and twice on the 2nd team. It was a wonder he was never named DPoY, but that is hardly a surprise given that the award is voted in by the media who somehow never voted for Bowen and got Camby in last year over Duncan.
2nd, Pippen was a great defender, was a fantastic passer, is only behind Larry Bird as the best forward in directing an offense , plays the passing lane, and ran the break as good as anyone. That explains why he was 3 time all-nba 1st, twice 2nd, and twice 3rd. The man was a fantastic player, unique in every way. He was Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway before injuries, and LeBron James actually reminds me more of Pippen (or an athletic Magic) than the next Jordan.

[ambchang]

No I'm not. Pippen is getting highly overrated. He was riding Jordan's coattail along with some other solid players the bulls had like Rodman and etc.

There is a reason Jordan never won anything before Pippen emerged. I know people kept saying that Jordan was the best ever yada yada yada, but Pippen was as instrumental to Jordan's successful career (as in 6 rings) as anybody (maybe Phil Jackson). The reason the Bulls were so unstoppable in those days were because they had an absolutely dominant perimeter defense (Jordan and Pippen), and solid post defense (Cartwright, Grant, Rodman), and their offense was unpredictable and quick (Pippen and Jordan penetrate and kick to 3 pt shooters, Jordan post up, Pippen cuts, etc...).
Just because Jordan was one of the best players of all-time doesn't mean that he didn't have excellent teammates. It seems to me that revisionist history is having Jordan as the sole reason for the Bulls success, much like Willis Reed scoring 4 points in a game 7 instead of Walt Frazier's amazing performance vs. the Lakers was somehow the sole reason the Knicks won the championship that year.

[resistanze]

There is a reason Jordan never won anything before Pippen emerged. I know people kept saying that Jordan was the best ever yada yada yada, but Pippen was as instrumental to Jordan's successful career (as in 6 rings) as anybody (maybe Phil Jackson). The reason the Bulls were so unstoppable in those days were because they had an absolutely dominant perimeter defense (Jordan and Pippen), and solid post defense (Cartwright, Grant, Rodman), and their offense was unpredictable and quick (Pippen and Jordan penetrate and kick to 3 pt shooters, Jordan post up, Pippen cuts, etc...).
Just because Jordan was one of the best players of all-time doesn't mean that he didn't have excellent teammates. It seems to me that revisionist history is having Jordan as the sole reason for the Bulls success, much like Willis Reed scoring 4 points in a game 7 instead of Walt Frazier's amazing performance vs. the Lakers was somehow the sole reason the Knicks won the championship that year.

That's because people remember Jordan more for his iconic status than they do for what actually happened in his career. A lot of the people probably witnessed his last 2 years with the Bulls and are now making evaluations based on that.

No one remembers the first round beatdowns from the Bucks and Celtics. , Jordan scores 63 points in a game and the STILL got swept that year. He missed like 75% of the season that year and they STILL made the playoffs. It's weird how in a matter of years after that point people believe he should take all the credit for playing on some of the most balanced teams in NBA history.

No doubt he is one of the best players in NBA history, if not the best, but no need to elevate his status to a point that is just inconsistent with history.

I mean Pippen overrated? Riding Jordan coattails? Never heard that one before.

[exstatic]

that doesn't change the fact that Howard is better than ginobili.

You're ing stupid. No, you're beyond ing stupid. Put 30 GMs in a room, and I guarantee you that at least 25 will pick Ginobili's big balls over Howards stupid tough guy get suspended poser at ude.

[exstatic]

As for the whole "Duncan effect"? Let's turn it around and look at it from Duncan's perspective...

Duncan w/o Ginobili 1 ring in 5 years.
Duncan w/ Ginobili 3 rings in 5 years and 2 near misses.

The defense rests, your honor.

[mavsfan1000]

I highly doubt it. You are underestimating a great young talent in Josh Howard compared to a player breaking down due to playing year round in Ginobili. Howard has fresher legs and it will show this year as it did last year. If Dirk plays like a superstar than the mavs are the better team. If he doesn't than the spurs are the better team. Howard is going to get his along with better rebounding. Howard is a beast.

[exstatic]

Ginobili is breaking down? He played in the summer of 06 internationally, and came back and posted better numbers in FG% 3G% FT% rebs and scoring and played 10 more games last year.

[dirk4mvp]

You're ing stupid. No, you're beyond ing stupid. Put 30 GMs in a room, and I guarantee you that at least 25 will pick Ginobili's big balls over Howards stupid tough guy get suspended poser at ude.

Right. And your poser hardass at ude you're putting on the internet makes you look pretty ing stupid as well.

[dirk4mvp]

But that doesn't matter as long as Manu's is placed firmly in your mouth.

[ElNono]

But that doesn't matter as long as Manu's is placed firmly in your mouth.

Didn't we have this conversation in at least other 2 threads where you got completely pwned? That you repeat to yourself that Howard is better than Manu doesn't make it so.

Howard has great potential, but still has not won anything, and until then, he's just another 'could-be' player...

[Obstructed_View]

Didn't we have this conversation in at least other 2 threads where you got completely pwned? That you repeat to yourself that Howard is better than Manu doesn't make it so.

Howard has great potential, but still has not won anything, and until then, he's just another 'could-be' player...

Just accept that if you dare to suggest that Manu takes more legitimate contact than Devin Harris does or that he is near the player Josh Howard is, that the conclusion by Mavs fans is that you just want to put your mouth somewhere on Manu's lower body. They don't really have a basketball argument to make.

[ElNono]

Just accept that if you dare to suggest that Manu takes more legitimate contact than Devin Harris does or that he is near the player Josh Howard is, that the conclusion by Mavs fans is that you just want to put your mouth somewhere on Manu's lower body. They don't really have a basketball argument to make.

I'm can already see the lame, unfounded reply:

Howard>Manu

[dirk4mvp]

Didn't we have this conversation in at least other 2 threads where you got completely pwned? That you repeat to yourself that Howard is better than Manu doesn't make it so.

Howard has great potential, but still has not won anything, and until then, he's just another 'could-be' player...

completely pwned? I bet you make yourself feel better when you say that.

[ElNono]

completely pwned? I bet you make yourself feel better when you say that.

We're not talking about me. We're talking about Howard and Manu. Unless you have ADD, please stick to the topic at hand. So, your solid basketball take on why Howard is a better player than Manu?

[dirk4mvp]

I thought we were talking about Howard being a Pippen clone.

[ElNono]

I thought we were talking about Howard being a Pippen clone.

I thought so too, but you dragged Manu in the conversation, not me:

And Ginobili has how many nba rings w/o Duncan by his side?

[dirk4mvp]

Because my main objective was to piss somebody off. I succeeded.

[ElNono]

Because my main objective was to piss somebody off. I succeeded.

I'm pretty calm here, in case you were referring to me.
I'll be around whenever you want to talk basketball.
In the meantime, don't try so hard to make a fool of yourself with every post.

[exstatic]

Don't get me wrong. JHo is pretty damn good. He'll have to become more than a 3 quarter player to ever be considered better than Manu, though.

dirk4mvp, shouldn't you be changing your name? Dirk got his MVP and Dallas went home empty yet again. Maybe mavs4secondround?

[mavs>spurs2]

Don't get me wrong. JHo is pretty damn good. He'll have to become more than a 3 quarter player to ever be considered better than Manu, though.

dirk4mvp, shouldn't you be changing your name? Dirk got his MVP and Dallas went home empty yet again. Maybe mavs4secondround?

damn that was hilarious

[Mr.Bottomtooth]