Well, it didn't take the two...

[ElNono]

... if it turns out, eventually, that because of the invasion and overthrow, a reasonably stable, non-religious, relatively tolerant, democratic government is established in the ME - does that not help our cause?

Wow, you really used 'non-religious', 'tolerant' and 'Middle East' in the same sentence... I don't know what you're smoking, but it must be some truly powerful ...

[boutons_]

"does that not help our cause"

The USA's cause today would be much better if Iraq were the same as Feb 2003.

Democracy, human rights, free speech, religious/political freedom/tolerance/reconciliation are totally absent in Iraq and aren't on the horizon.

The Iraqi people, esp womon and children, are totally worse off today than they were Feb 2003.

As St Ronnie said "We're from the US government and we're here to help you".

Iraq is a definite lose-lose game, which is why all the dubya suckers can claim today is "if... if... if... if... if... if..." while they don't have to pay to play that game.

[101A]

Wow, you really used 'non-religious', 'tolerant' and 'Middle East' in the same sentence... I don't know what you're smoking, but it must be some truly powerful ...

You are a bigot.

[Oh, Gee!!]

You mean it didn't take two decades for some hack to sugar coat an utter failure in foreign policy? Wow.

[101A]

"does that not help our cause"

The USA's cause today would be much better if Iraq were the same as Feb 2003.

You are sure of this because....

Democracy, human rights, free speech, religious/political freedom/tolerance/reconciliation are totally absent in Iraq and aren't on the horizon.

...and they were in abundance in 02/03?

The Iraqi people, esp womon and children, are totally worse off today than they were Feb 2003.

How nice of you to say so. Guess you know what's best for them, huh? THEIR polls say they don't want to go back.

As St Ronnie said "We're from the US government and we're here to help you".

Why do you hate the United States?

Iraq is a definite lose-lose game, which is why all the dubya suckers can claim today is "if... if... if... if... if... if..." while they don't have to pay to play that game.

According to the piece this thread is dedicated to; the U.S. military has won, Al Qaeda lost.

[Yonivore]

winning in iraq? we've already won the war. how can we lose something we've already won?

We managed to do it in Vietnam. Courtesy of the Democrats...

What you don't seem to grasp is that this country never saw the connection of Iraq with the war on terror. Once that was gone this fiasco will always be remembered as an unecessary war. This notion that once things get better the WHwill look great and the media and the dems will look bad is preposterous! People just want out.. To assume that the public will have a 'coming to jesus' moment when the war is over is funny and wishful thinking..

I predicted two decades...I don't think it'll be that long now. Especially with this kind of analysis becoming available.

You lost the public support when the majority didn't buy the selling of this being a part of the war on terror..

The public is fickle...they'll swing whichever way the wind blows hardest.

[George Gervin's Afro]

We managed to do it in Vietnam. Courtesy of the Democrats...


I predicted two decades...I don't think it'll be that long now. Especially with this kind of analysis becoming available.


The public is fickle...they'll swing whichever way the wind blows hardest.

Always the optimist yoni..

[Yonivore]

That's alot of IFs...

Actually, it's only two.

Care to address the fact that al Qaeda views Iraq as a major battlefield in their war with us and that makes it a part of the war on terror?

I hope my 5 yr old son isn't fighting in the middle East somewhere because of Bush's nation building experiment gone awry.. We stirred up the hornets nest and destabliized a very unstable part of the world....I cannot for the life of me find one poistive thing about that..

Is that kind of like breaking a broken object? I think we committed an act that was inevitable, on our own terms and in our own manner; and, it worked.

You mention that this would be worth it if we have an ally on the war on terror? How much in US lives is that worth? IF this works out how many?

Defeating the Islamic Extremists before they have an opportunity to visit destruction on our shores again is worth whatever price we pay.

Wake up America
"We shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

And he was a Democrat.

[Yonivore]

Always the optimist yoni..

Beats claiming we've lost a war we didn't lose...Murth..Rei..Pelo...Schu..., I mean, George.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Actually, it's only two.

Care to address the fact that al Qaeda views Iraq as a major battlefield in their war with us and that makes it a part of the war on terror?


Is that kind of like breaking a broken object? I think we committed an act that was inevitable, on our own terms and in our own manner; and, it worked.


Defeating the Islamic Extremists before they have an opportunity to visit destruction on our shores again is worth whatever price we pay.


And he was a Democrat.

When the Russians were trying to ship missiles into Cuba Kennedy didn't rush off and invade Poland...

[George Gervin's Afro]

Beats claiming we've lost a war we didn't lose...Murth..Rei..Pelo...Schu..., I mean, George.

I've already agreed we won the war in Iraq.. it's the post war situation that is fubar...

[Yonivore]

When the Russians were trying to ship missiles into Cuba Kennedy didn't rush off and invade Poland...

Your point?

Al Qaeda was streaming into Iraq after the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. By 2003, they had a large presence and were allying themselves with Iran, Syria, and former Ba'athist regime elements.

They were there first. We only went where their choice took us.

[Yonivore]

I've already agreed we won the war in Iraq.. it's the post war situation that is fubar...

Fubar? Talked to an Iraqi lately?

[boutons_]

"they were in abundance in 02/03"

no, but 4000 dead US military, several 100K dead Iraqis, and US $2T wasted to arrive at the same point today? big ing deal

"Why do you hate the United States"

Why do you put words in my mouth when I quote St Ronnie, who was a mouthpiece for movement conservatism's program to destroy the American govt?

AQI didn't even exist until the dubya's bogus invasion created it, a straw man. So our kick-ass military enabled, then defeated a straw man, big ing deal.

And AQI was killing Iraqis and the Iraqis wanted them dead or out of Iraq like any country's people would want any invaders (eg, US military in Iraq) out of their country.

[ChumpDumper]

(Al Qaeda, in the meantime, informs us that all but 200 of their fighters in Iraq are dead.)

200?

Why are we still there then?

Surely the Iraqi security forces can take care of 200 terraists. I mean, they are the only threat to Iraqi stability that currently exists or ever existed and the only one worth blogging about.

[Ignignokt]

200?

Why are we still there then?

Surely the Iraqi security forces can take care of 200 terraists. I mean, they are the only threat to Iraqi stability that currently exists or ever existed and the only one worth blogging about.

That's if there's only 200. And even if there were that much, that doesn't mean there's 200 recognizable terrorist all in one location in iraq as if they were branch davidian... ahh i give up. You're an idiot.

[ElNono]

Wow, you really used 'non-religious', 'tolerant' and 'Middle East' in the same sentence... I don't know what you're smoking, but it must be some truly powerful ...

You are a bigot.

And you're are plainly in denial... For as long as I've lived (35 years and counting), these guys (pakistanis, egiptians, iraquis, iranians, palestinians, etc) have been walking into a crowd and blowing themselves to pieces along with as many of their 'infidels' they can take with them. It is always motivated by religion, and fueled by intolerance. This is not something new. You could read a story about an atrocity like that happening pretty much every month for the past 30+ years.
Do you really think that you're just going to walk in there and change decades of their culture and religion in one big swoop?
You must truly be delusional.

[Ignignokt]

And you're are plainly in denial... For as long as I've lived (35 years and counting), these guys (pakistanis, egiptians, iraquis, iranians, palestinians, etc) have been walking into a crowd and blowing themselves to pieces along with as many of their 'infidels' they can take with them. It is always motivated by religion, and fueled by intolerance. This is not something new. You could read a story about an atrocity like that happening pretty much every month for the past 30+ years.
Do you really think that you're just going to walk in there and change decades of their culture and religion in one big swoop?
You must truly be delusional.

Thats like saying Blacks have been commiting theft, inciting riots and having unborn kids all in one broadstroke, and then claiming that nothing can be done about their problems.

i guess your are messing in bigot territory.

[ChumpDumper]

That's if there's only 200.

Are you calling the blogger a liar?

[ElNono]

Thats like saying Blacks have been commiting theft, inciting riots and having unborn kids all in one broadstroke, and then claiming that nothing can be done about their problems.

i guess your are messing in bigot territory.

Your analogy does not apply, because all the acts you mention are not exclusive to Black people. But keep participating...

[remingtonbo2001]

Your analogy does not apply, because all the acts you mention are not exclusive to Black people. But keep participating...

That's precisely the point which was being made.

[ElNono]

That's precisely the point which was being made.

Please go ahead and tell me where else in the world outside the Middle East people blow themselves up in a crowd for religious reasons at least once a month for the past 30+ years.

[Wild Cobra]

I finally took the time to read the article. Everything was spot-on with what I have learned since the start. It describes several thinks I have said from time to time.

Great article.

I agree. Correct history is being written sooner than I expected too.

[ChumpDumper]

You said we invaded Iraq in 2003 for the sole purpose of luring in terraists from other countries and Al Qaeda in Iraq (not the actual Al Qaeda) is the only cause of violence in Iraq since the invasion and now there are only 200 of them so now we can break out the Mission Accomplished banner again and leave immediately?

[Ignignokt]

You said we invaded Iraq in 2003 for the sole purpose of luring in terraists from other countries and Al Qaeda in Iraq (not the actual Al Qaeda) is the only cause of violence in Iraq since the invasion and now there are only 200 of them so now we can break out the Mission Accomplished banner again and leave immediately?

THat's still not counting other terror groups who have enlisted volunteers for suicide missions from other countries, and the iranians. some couple hundred trained alqueda fighters is different from alqueda members in total, because anyone can claim to stand for alqueda and kill innocents. so no, we do not fold now, and if we leave the number of alqueda could double to quadruple. The article didn't say that there was only alqueda violence in iraq, there have been many baath insurrections, as well as other parties. but there was never a full fledged civil war.


IF YOUR DUMBASS HAD READ THE ARTICLE YOU WOULDN"T HAVE DRAWN UP THOSE DUMB CONCLUSIONS.