Shaq's biggest impact so far...

[JMarkJohns]

I miss having an actual coach and an owner that will employ smart people to make the decisions, all while fronting the bill.

And Cry Havoc, that would have been a great trade, but the cost would have been unbelievable. And, reslistically, the Suns couldn't acquire Garnett for Amare without: 1. Banks being included (which Minnesota balked at), 2. Diaw being included (which Minnesota balked at), or 3. Thomas being included (which phoenix balked at).

Tough to say it could have happened. There was a scenerio where the Hawks got involved, but I still think either Banks or Diaw was needed, and neither the Wolves or Hawks were interested.

Where the Suns have failed themselves is in the selling off of picks.

04-05 draft - sells an acquired 05-06 Cleveland 1st to Charlotte for them to take on Jahaidi White's remaining year.
04-05 draft - trades their #7 overall pick to Chicago for a future first, 3 million and a 04-05 second-rounder.
05-06 draft - trades their acquired Chicago pick to New York along with Quentin Richardson to acquire Kurt Thomas.
06-07 draft - trades their acquired Lakers pick to Boston for 3 million and an acquired Cleveland 1st
06-07 draft - trades their own 1st rounder to Portland for 3 million
07-08 draft - trades their acquired Cleveland 1st along with James Jones to Portland for 3 million
07-08 offseason - trades two future Suns 1st along with Kurt Thomas for 3 million

Imagine if they had kept those picks.

Players available with said picks?

04-05 (1 pick, 7th overall): Luel Deng, Andre Iguodala, Andris Biedrins, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, Jameer Nelson, Kevin Martin

05-06 (2 picks, 13 overall, 21st overall): Sean May, Danny Granger, Hakim Warrick, Jarrett Jack, Francisco Garcia, David Lee, Ronny Turiaf, Monta Ellis

06-07 (2 picks, 21st overall, 27th overall): Rajon Rondo, Marcus Williams, Kyle Lowry, Jordan Farmar, Daniel Gibson, Paul Millsap

Can you imagine this Suns team with really any one of those 04-05 players like Deng, Iguodala, Biedrins, Jefferson or Martin?

Add to said player Danny Granger, Monta Ellis, Jordan Farmar or Marcus Williams and David Lee...

I mean, technically, in several cases one pick was traded for a future pick, which was traded for another future pick, but they should still have a minimum of four players from these drafts.

In reality, the Suns could have had any of the 04-05 class, any from the 06-07 class with their two picks, or mius one from 06-07 and add one to their own from the 07-08 class, plus the Atl 1st this upcoming draft. had they not acquired Thomas, they wouldn't have had to trade two future 1sts to get rid of him.

In total, they'd have roughly eight 1st-rounders from 04-05 through I believe 2010, with six coming from 04-05 through 07-08.

Like I said, add Jefferson, Farmar, Splitter to Tucker and Strawberry, the 2008 Atl 1st, the 2008, 2009 and 2010 Phx 1st and you have an unbelievable young nucleas to add to Amare, Diaw and Barbosa once Nash and Shaq or Marion (whomever) are off the books.

[Cry Havoc]

I hear what you're saying, Jmark. I don't understand the T-wolves. Amare, as much as it pains me to say, is probably worth as much as what they received instead, although they have a very talented young team now. I think a 1st rounder would have probably made them a little happier about letting go of Big Ticket.

Although you could say that about every team who's traded draft picks. Every year in the league you have sleepers lurking around the 20th spot or later (sometimes even the 58th =P). Hindsight is never more 20/20 than in pro sports drafts.

[Heath Ledger]

I hear they are making a sequel to Kazaam, it's called

Kazaam 2 the fall of Shaq get out of the way or you might get crushed.

In theaters March 26th.

[gmartin02]

I hear they are making a sequel to Kazaam, it's called

Kazaam 2 the fall of Shaq get out of the way or you might get crushed.

In theaters March 26th.

Boris Diaw has already been cast as a stunt man (his head is hard enough to absorb Shaq's elbows).

[JMarkJohns]

I hear what you're saying, Jmark. I don't understand the T-wolves. Amare, as much as it pains me to say, is probably worth as much as what they received instead, although they have a very talented young team now. I think a 1st rounder would have probably made them a little happier about letting go of Big Ticket.

Although you could say that about every team who's traded draft picks. Every year in the league you have sleepers lurking around the 20th spot or later (sometimes even the 58th =P). Hindsight is never more 20/20 than in pro sports drafts.

I'd have loved the Suns to acquire Garnett. I just think their undoing for the present with issues of depth and frontcourt muscle could have been remedied much more cheaply via the draft than via trade. I know any of those 04-05ers would cost much more now, but they'd have had two or three highly productive, inexpensive seasons from a Deng, Iguodala or Jefferson.

Colangelo was no slouch at the draft. He was very good at finding talent. I have no doubt that had the Suns kept their picks and Colangelo, they'd have a great combination of the players mentioned. Maybe even...

Jefferson and Farmar, my ideal two picks from their most likely of drafts.

It's scary to think that the Suns could have had a lineup of...

PG: Nash, Farmar
SG: Bell, Barbosa
SF: Marion, Hill
PF: Jefferson, Diaw
C: Amare

with a handful of picks like Tucker, Strawberry and, for the future, Splitter. Had they done something like this, then even letting Marion walk wouldn't seem unreasonable since they could simply insert Diaw at SF, or Hill, then draft a player with the Atlanta 1st for SF depth, and bring over Splitter to add frontcourt depth.

I mean, they'd effectively replace Marion's contract with Jefferson's extension and the cost of the Atl 1st and signing Splitter, but without ever having Thomas' contract on the books, they'd be opporating below the tax threshold, would arguably be much better, and, without question, be much deeper and in better position for the future. Push come to shove, maybe they trade Marion for another pick or two and add to their future depth.

I'm telling you, this isn't hindsight, though it may appear. This has been a concern of mine for years. It's only now an obvious thorn in the side of the Suns, but I've been speaking out on the topic for the better part of four drafts. I understood trading the 04-05 1st to clear CAP space to make a run at Kobe or Nash and another quality FA, especially since there was no way to expect the Bulls to jump from a perrenial bottom-5 team to a top-10 team that next season, but every other trading of picks has been ridiculously stupid and has cost, is costing and will cost the Suns for a long time.

The fact the Suns were in position to select of the named players, had a GM who's excellant at identifying talent, but refused for sake of cost just shows how inept the Suns ups really are.

[peskypesky]

I thought Marion for Shaq was a bad trade for Phoenix, and it looks like I might be right (although it's still really too early to tell). But laying ALL of the blame at Shaq's big feet is not warranted. I think the guy is playing about as well as any 36-year old 300+ lb center could be expected to play. He's not 21 years old, or 26, or 29 or even 31! The dude is about to turn 36. And he's had a LOT of long seasons.

So shut up with the dissing of Shaq. The people at fault here are Kerr, D'Antoni, and the Suns' owner. They're the ones who made this trade.

[RonMexico]

I don't know if I miss Marion, but I certainly miss coaches like Paul Westphal that could make adjustments.

I need to find this article in the Arizona paper where they talk to all 4 head b-ball coaches in AZ (Herb Sendek at ASU, Kevin O'Neill at UA, Charlie Turner Thorne at ASU-Women's, and then D'Antoni). All D'Antoni says during the whole thing is basically: "what makes me a good coach is that I stick to my guns and I'm convinced this style can work... I don't listen to what other people say."

Actually, Dan - that's what makes you a bad playoff coach. And that's what will tire out your Big 3 of Hill, Nash, and Shaq during the end of this season. I'm amazed that he lets Barbosa make so many mistakes, but he'll pull Linton Johnson or DJ Strawberry for one or two mental errors. Also, can we see Brian Skinner again please?

Suns need Barry more than ever. Duncan getting doubled = kick out to Barry/Finley/Ginobili/Bowen/S-Jax/Elliott for 3.

Shaq getting doubled or Nash driving lane = kick out to Barbosa/Bell and that's it. Nice job getting rid of James Jones and not picking up Richie Frahm or trying to trade for Kyle Korver. And no reason ever to use a draft pick on a player that can shoot.

[JMarkJohns]

I don't know if I miss Marion, but I certainly miss coaches like Paul Westphal that could make adjustments.

I need to find this article in the Arizona paper where they talk to all 4 head b-ball coaches in AZ (Herb Sendek at ASU, Kevin O'Neill at UA, Charlie Turner Thorne at ASU-Women's, and then D'Antoni). All D'Antoni says during the whole thing is basically: "what makes me a good coach is that I stick to my guns and I'm convinced this style can work... I don't listen to what other people say."

Actually, Dan - that's what makes you a bad playoff coach. And that's what will tire out your Big 3 of Hill, Nash, and Shaq during the end of this season. I'm amazed that he lets Barbosa make so many mistakes, but he'll pull Linton Johnson or DJ Strawberry for one or two mental errors. Also, can we see Brian Skinner again please?

Suns need Barry more than ever. Duncan getting doubled = kick out to Barry/Finley/Ginobili/Bowen/S-Jax/Elliott for 3.

Shaq getting doubled or Nash driving lane = kick out to Barbosa/Bell and that's it. Nice job getting rid of James Jones and not picking up Richie Frahm or trying to trade for Kyle Korver. And no reason ever to use a draft pick on a player that can shoot.

Yeah, I'm pretty pissed about trading Jones and a 1st for nothing but money. They didn't even get a future pick out of the deal. I mean, Jones is a quality player - good defender, rebounder and set shooter - and you include a 1st, but net nothing but pocket change for a billionaire owner?

I swear, if there were no laws, Sarver and D'Antoni would be dead right now! Maybe I should delete that?

[Cry Havoc]

I'm telling you, this isn't hindsight, though it may appear. This has been a concern of mine for years. It's only now an obvious thorn in the side of the Suns, but I've been speaking out on the topic for the better part of four drafts. I understood trading the 04-05 1st to clear CAP space to make a run at Kobe or Nash and another quality FA, especially since there was no way to expect the Bulls to jump from a perrenial bottom-5 team to a top-10 team that next season, but every other trading of picks has been ridiculously stupid and has cost, is costing and will cost the Suns for a long time.

Oops, I should have been more clear when I stated hindsight. I'm absolutely positive that the tried-and-true Suns fans who remember the team even before Sir Charles was around has been screaming for the management to change things up. What I meant is that draft picks are just an inherent gamble, and for every Wade, Manu, and Kobe, there are 50 or 100 bust players like Cherokee Parks, Trajan Langdon, or JJ Re . It's kind of understandable that they'd be gun shy to take a chance -- not everyone can fit in with the Suns' system. Stupid though, you have to take risks to win a le if another team is better than you are.

I really don't understand the Suns front office. It's almost like they are scared of winning a championship -- maybe the ticket sales would fall off in a year or two? Being a Cubs fan, I suspect many owners of doing this. Tossing Thomas to the wind only to trade an All-star for Shaq is one of the most baffling moves I've ever seen.

Which isn't to say the Suns aren't going to be a force in the playoffs. But the rule of thumb I've found is that, unless you have a plethora of defensive stoppers, you never, ever, ever trade away your best defensive player. Not for anything, unless you get a defender of close to or greater than equal value in return.

[RonMexico]

I like that your "busts" are Duke players. I think JJ Re would play well on the Suns, however. He was a waste as a lottery pick and should have fallen to later rounds where he could have contributed.

[Cry Havoc]

I like that your "busts" are Duke players. I think JJ Re would play well on the Suns, however. He was a waste as a lottery pick and should have fallen to later rounds where he could have contributed.

First three that popped into my head. Should I apologize for the lack of success many Duke players have had in the NBA?

[RonMexico]

No, I just thought it was funny. The Dukie stereotype is kind of true. But then a Grant Hill or Carlos Boozer comes out and becomes a perennial All-Star.

I think the fact that Duke players fail in the NBA is actually a positive reflection on Coach K. He's able to find and mold these marginally talented players into NCAA Champions. Some of that I'm sure is that he finds guys with strong characters who can mesh well as a team. Still, who thought this year's Duke team would be in the Top 5 when looking at them on paper?

Sorry, I just came in and contributed a few good points, but Mike D'Antoni is sending me back to the bench.

[Cry Havoc]

No, I just thought it was funny. The Dukie stereotype is kind of true. But then a Grant Hill or Carlos Boozer comes out and becomes a perennial All-Star.

I think the fact that Duke players fail in the NBA is actually a positive reflection on Coach K. He's able to find and mold these marginally talented players into NCAA Champions. Some of that I'm sure is that he finds guys with strong characters who can mesh well as a team. Still, who thought this year's Duke team would be in the Top 5 when looking at them on paper?

Sorry, I just came in and contributed a few good points, but Mike D'Antoni is sending me back to the bench.

Be sure to wave your towel around your head (like a heli-copta!) vigorously. That usually will get his attention.

[RonMexico]

I'll be honest - I can't stand it. This is why the Suns can't get players to sign in free agency: they know they'll never play! Even Jumaine Jones would be useful right now because he could rebound from the wing position and hit at least 35% on 3's.

[Killakobe81]

The suns got SHAQ to gaurd YAO, Duncan and Bynum ...problem now is YAO is done, he couldn't gaurd Duncan even when they(Lakers) won les (horry and grant diid most of it) and Bynum is too athletic he will be at least able to do what Chandler did to him last night ...GREAT trade by the way?! now all My team has to do is figure a way to beat the Spurs ...

[gmartin02]

I thought Marion for Shaq was a bad trade for Phoenix, and it looks like I might be right (although it's still really too early to tell). But laying ALL of the blame at Shaq's big feet is not warranted. I think the guy is playing about as well as any 36-year old 300+ lb center could be expected to play. He's not 21 years old, or 26, or 29 or even 31! The dude is about to turn 36. And he's had a LOT of long seasons.

So shut up with the dissing of Shaq. The people at fault here are Kerr, D'Antoni, and the Suns' owner. They're the ones who made this trade.

Yup - still to early to tell, but if Shaq cannot get his 36 year old body to at least play like it is 33, the blame is squarely on Suns management for one of the stupidest trades ever for a contending franchise - If the Suns don't win the championship this year, they basically have a $20 million/year 300lb anchor around their neck for the next couple of years (and no championship - cause if it don't happen this year, it aint happening - you think a 36 year old Shaq is questionable, wait till you see the 37 year old version)

Unfortunately, Shaq has sort of set himself up as the fall guy by all of his "predictions" in press conferences before he ever played a minute in an actual game with Phoenix - unless they do win it all this year, not very smart of Shaq.

[RonMexico]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/arti...oundtable.html

Just read that and look at D'Antoni's comments. His inability to adjust or note when others might be right is disconcerting.

[Purple & Gold]

He says his strength and weakness is the same thing. It's a weakness idiot. The fact he refuses to change his style of play or adjust is exactly why he's one of the worst coaches out there.