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Psssttt word . . . !
I was being sarcastic . . .
"$21+ gallon of gas within 20 years."
Inflation adjusted? Europeans have been paying $6+/gallon for years. They are somewhat cushioned now because they take their Euros to buy oil in US$.
Transport fuel price is an easy and obvious number to wach. But oil products have been engineered into everything. Fertlizer from oil is required by industrial agriculture.
Food prices are going up significantly. You pay a lot more for food per year than for gasoline.
Psssttt word . . . !
I was being sarcastic . . .
@ blaming environmentalists for the increase in oil prices.
Talk about being ing clueless.
I fail to understand your conclusion that I have a total
disregard for the environment. I don't. I have no desire
to see the earth "raped" or the air and water polluted.
But I do not understand why just because we harvest
what is available to us we are raping and polluting. We
have every means in the world to have sufficient energy
at reasonable prices without the raping and pollution,
as has been proven time and time again. Accidents
occur which harm nature and people. And events
occur which do the same over which we have no control.
So should be hold God or the environment in
contempt of mankind for these events. Like we do
people attempting to deliver energy at reasonable
cost? Only we have can prove people did it intentionally.
Over God and the environment, we have no control.
Much as some would like to argue that point.
I cant help your state of mind. Life is what it is. And
Talk about being ing clueless.
unfortunately you are part of life.......
And Life is a smorgasborg!!
Just step up to the table and help yourself. But remember
the story about the lady who wanted to be buried with a
spoon in her hand. The best is yet to come. Dessert!
I have no problem with resource extraction per se.
We don't have control over accidents, but we do get to choose our risks.
I can't control whether I get into an accident in my car driving to work, but I can avoid dangerous roads, and drive at reasonable speeds.
Environmentalism isn't to blame for higher oil prices. Economics is.
I almost wish we would simply go off and drill ANWAR just to prove how little difference it would make in the long run.
Ah, yes, an easy answer to a difficult problem. They lied when they said U.S. oil production peaked in 1970! We still have tons of reserves left; the liberals just won't let us drill because they hate economic growth and worship Gaia!
In seriousness, ANWR and all those offshore deposits might help a little. Maybe gas might be $2.90 a gallon instead of $3.15. But that's it.
This is true. The only way I see it going cheaper would be if we increased production to 100% support our own habbit, and legislation restricted oil companies in the USA to not selling any overseas. Compe ion would then keep the price down as oil companies competed for market share.
Um, sure.
Prices would also be kept down if the magic maroon monkeys from mars came down and all pooped oil into our supertankers.
I consider both to be about similar in probability
I agree.
Seems the only other solution is to blow the other nations into the stone ages so we are the only demand for oil.
Not very many good solutions, are there?
oooor... we could, say, start investing in renewables and move away from oil consumption...
Nah, that would be like energy independence or something, and that is about a possible as the magic maroon monkeys from mars that poop oil.
When one thinks about the trillions that Iraq will end up costing us, and what we could have done with that. (sigh)
http://www.apolloalliance.org/
One organization dedicated to that.
Oh yeah, one final bit before I have to get to work...
The speculators who have been jumping into commodities for the last few months and driving the price of oil have started dumping their futures positions and buying bonds.
The prices of US treasuries are coming off 50 year lows on the bond market from what I heard on NPR on the way to work this morning. (click link to go to Bloomberg.com news article on bond market)
Look for oil to plummet, and inflation fears to subside.
All the money that used to be in stocks looking for returns went to commodities, and now is chasing bonds.
Look for stocks to be bearish for some time, I would guess, and a few rather nasty days to come in the next few months.
Yikes.
Last edited by RandomGuy; 03-20-2008 at 08:41 AM. Reason: fact checked for accuracy and to provide link
This is a real factor since oil is traded in the futures market. However, there is real demand for oil too. I can agree with a drop, but nothing that would deserve the term plummeting. Gold is also run up a bit higher than it should be. I hadn't compared the graphs, but heard that an ounce of gold stays within a small range of buying about 100 barrels or oil. This is because the two primary driving forces for their prices are supply and demand along with currency exchange values. They are both world commodities and they both indicate a level of wealth.
If we want to see oil below $50 again, we need to increase production far more than the law makers who suck the green weenies will allow.
I'm sure some are. There is still in my opinion a better return rate investing in foreign ventures that our dollar is slipping against the owning countries.
They have been bearish for some time now. I don't see them dropping any lower than maybe 11,000 on the Dow, but I am far from a good predictor on stocks. I long ago stated the reason for the drop in the stock markets wasn't anything indicating a bad economy, but because investors see a better return in following the drop of the dollar. Say for example you got out of the USA stock with $100,000 and invested it in a good company that is in the Euro valued exchange soon after the dollar started dropping. Lets say this was when the Euro cost us $1.20. Once the dollar hits bottom, lets say at maybe when the Euro costs $1.80, you sell back your overseas stocks. Didn't take long to make 50% now, did it.
I firmly believe this is why the US markets are in decline. Only a few industries are having issues, and that always happens. I really think once the dollar stabilizes against other currencies, our market will go back past 14,000, and then some, not taking long to pass 15,000. Now of course, this is assuming that the 2008 elections don't scare investors with how the next congress and president will change laws.
I pretty much agree with everything here.
By "plummet" I meant back off from the record highs. From what I hear the demand "floor" for current supplies is about 80 bucks, and I will defer to that. I know demand for oil is strong, and will likely only go UP.
You are completely mistaken that all it would take is relaxing environmental laws to increase production and get oil below $50. If you have some source to back that up, I would like to see it.
The real factors driving the price of oil aren't "evirnonmental laws restricting supply" it is that proven fields are being tapped out, faster than some would care to admit, and that new fields aren't being found as fast as they are being used up.
Peak oil is either here, coming very soon, or has passed. Technology can extend the life of oil fields somewhat, but ultimately we must figure out how to deal with the reality of oil becoming increasingly more scarce compared to demand.
Don't let your political leanings cloud your analysis.
It might not hit $50 again, but we can at least get close. It would be dependant on how much more production we can provide. We have learned from the past, before the environmental concerns were as strong that when we increase our share of production, OPEC reduces their price to make our own ventures unprofitable, and maintain their share of exports. World demand is now high enough that they cannot produce enough to make our ventures unprofitable. We can now, if we want, produce enough for our own usage. It would also help to do subsidies or low cost loans on a one time to build basis for the smaller oil companies. If only the larger oil companies get to drill for most the oil we need, it doesn't do much for compe ion.
Our oil is not "sweet crude" which is the preferred oil to refine. It is costly to refine to remove the pollutants as it's done. That is one reason as to why, as we buy from other countries, we sell much of our oil we produce.
As for a source, it is knowledge built over time. We have found huge potential with unknown capacities. Making it happen to drill is a tricky thing.
This theory is debatable. First of all, the term fossil fuel related to oil is now known to be incorrect. Oil is produced by different methods than originally thought, and it is believe that this high pressure chemistry under the earth continues to refill the pockets of oil we tap. We simply take it out faster than it is created in most places.
That theory, at least for the projected timelines, has already been blown out of the water. Even if oil doesn't get recreated under the earth, we are far away from 'peak oil' still.
They don't. Truth is more a conservative ideal than a liberal one. I strive for the truth. I don't let a political stance on an ideal make me blind to the truth. Because I strive for the truth, I have very little regard for liberals as most of the liberal pundits and politicians are chronic liars. As human as I am, I do make occasion mistakes still.
Last edited by Wild Cobra; 03-27-2008 at 04:41 PM. Reason: change "supply" to "demand"
Repubs going against the free market?? WTF is happening here??
At least you're honest and admit that Repubs like a weak dollar.
[QUOTE]Hold it right there. OPEC doesn't set the price to anything. They either increase or decrease production to affect the price. OPEC increasingly does not appear to be able to do that anymore, for reasons I have already stated.
Source?We can now, if we want, produce enough [oil]for our own usage.
We need to subsidize companies that are earning record prices for their product? Why not let the efficiencies of the market determine how we allocate our energy dollars?It would also help to do subsidies or low cost loans on a one time to build basis for the smaller oil companies. If only the larger oil companies get to drill for most the oil we need, it doesn't do much for compe ion.
The problem you are missing is that the free market system is getting the smaller companies into the marginal fields. I read oil company financials and see conference call transcripts to see this happening already. The other problem is that smaller companies simply don't have access to the massive amounts of capital that are required to get at some of the deeper oil off the continental shelves.
That won't change without MASSIVE subsidies, and I would argue that energy money would be waaaay more efficiently spent on encouraging energy efficiency.
...and then buy it back after it has been refined. It takes more energy to get sour crude to the point where it is a usable product. This reduces its return on invested energy.Our oil is not "sweet crude" which is the preferred oil to refine. It is costly to refine to remove the pollutants as it's done. That is one reason as to why, as we buy from other countries, we sell much of our oil we produce.
"huge potential with unknown capacities" = wild ass guess. Hardly the thing to base sound energy policy on.As for a source, it is knowledge built over time. We have found huge potential with unknown capacities. Making it happen to drill is a tricky thing.
That refil is simply "seepage" from adjacent areas, not new oil and it does little to recharge the field to any real usable degree.This theory is debatable. First of all, the term fossil fuel related to oil is now known to be incorrect. Oil is produced by different methods than originally thought, and it is believe that this high pressure chemistry under the earth continues to refill the pockets of oil we tap. We simply take it out faster than it is created in most places.
If you take oil out faster than it is created, and faster than you can find it, you STILL have a peak oil scenario. Whether that peak is passed or not is debateable, but what is not debateable is that it WILL happen. Eventually the costs of extracting the deep water oil will surpass the relative costs of other energy sources. You can either plan for this eventuality or pretend to be surprised when it happens, and scramble to react. I prefer the former.
Source?That theory, at least for the projected timelines, has already been blown out of the water. Even if oil doesn't get recreated under the earth, we are far away from 'peak oil' still.
Then how do you explain the popularity of Ann Coulter?Truth is more a conservative ideal than a liberal one.
Oil prices will come down!
You heard it from smegma first . . .
Duh....
Cherry picking are we? I followed that up with:
Now I did misspeak in that I meant to say:World supply is now high enough that they cannot produce enough to make our ventures unprofitable.
But I still said:World demand is now high enough that they cannot produce enough to make our ventures unprofitable.
I thought it would be obvious I was presenting a mindset.that they cannot produce enough to make our ventures unprofitable.
I'm not going to bother to find a source. I don't remember where I encounter everything I learn. Do you?
It has to do with oil we have found in several places that we do not drill for. Couple that with what we do sell to other countries, and we have quite a bit of oil.
Come on RG. Am I wrong to consider you an intelligent person? I specifically said for the smaller oil companies. There are more than just the large ones we all hear of.
Now you are saying what I thought I obviously implied!
I suggest you take those colored glasses off and re-read my posting.
I have no problem with encouraging efficiency as long as it doesn't go overboard. It doesn't cost much to do that and it can pay for itself too. You just pass regulations that set standards. Take the "guzzler tax" and expand it. I have no problem with it. It would be difficult to make the right exceptions for commercial vehicles vs. personal use, but I'll bet it could be done.
Like I said, it's more costly. Heavy oil takes more energy. Oil that isn't sweet takes more pollution controls. Places like China don't care, so we sell it to them.
Again. Take those colored glasses off please.
Who do we sell oil to and buy back the refined product? That's a new one to me.
We only know the lower capacity of most the places we found. We really don't know the upper capacities. Statistically, they are far greater that currently stated.
Like I said, it's debatable. However, there are theories otherwise that are very promising to be correct that seepage isn't the only method.
Yes, Yes, and No. We cannot make proper educated guesses yet how fast the earth cooks up oil in her deep chemistry labs.
Are you saying I must disprove the current projected timeline of peak oil?
LOL... If you know her works, you know when she is being factual, sarcastic, or intentionally lighting fires under liberals. When you check things out, she is rarely wrong in what she presents as facts.
Ok, you just lost any respect I had for you right there.
Results 11 - 20 of about 1,600,000 for ann coulter lies. (0.04 seconds)
http://www.google.com/search?q=ann+c...&start=10&sa=N
busted. if you don't believe ann coulter then you are far too intelligent to be american.
get out, foreigner!
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