Is Manu the greatest international player ever in the NBA?

[ShoogarBear]

Hokey smokes. What if Manu decided to retire in the US, and become a US citizen like Hakeem?

[Obstructed_View]

I don't know why Hakeem gets tossed aside by some in this debate because he moved here to go to college (and then stayed, etc.) He's still foreign born, international heritage, etc. How can you discount him as an "international player?"

Because, according to the definition*, he isn't. He never played pro ball abroad and the only international experience he has is as a member of the US team. For the purposes of this discussion, Steve Nash is more of an "international player" than Hakeem.


*not that I know that there's actually a "definition" but I think we all agree that an "international" player has to do more than just be born outside the US.

[TheTruth]

How did this thread go pass Hakeem?

[Kori Ellis]

*not that I know that there's actually a "definition" but I think we all agree that an "international" player has to do more than just be born outside the US.

I assumed that's all it meant. I was categorizing it just like the NBA does - international=foreign born.

[Obstructed_View]

I assumed that's all it meant. I was categorizing it just like the NBA does - international=foreign born.

Yeah, I wouldn't consider Patrick Ewing an international player either. It makes for a boring discussion if you can count him and Hakeem, because there's really no discussion. Manu's my favorite player, but he's not as good as Hakeem. Find me three finals MVPs from now and we'll talk.

[tlongII]

So what you guys are saying is "Manu is better than Tony", right?

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

For me, international should be one that hasn't played in high school and/or college in the US, has played in a pro league abroad and most important, plays for a national team other than USA Basketball. The NBA may consider birthplace to label a player as "international", but that's a marketing strategy. I just can't consider Tim Duncan or Hakeem Olajuwon "international" when they've represented USA Basketball in the Olympics and World Championships.

If we are counting NBA achievements only, then no, but he is in the top 5. If individual and team trophies achieved elsewhere are taken into the mix, he's a top 3 without a doubt. The same applies for Sabonis, if you take his overseas career, he is a lock for the first or second place.

Dirk and Nash are the opposite, their NBA careers help their cause, but their international resume doesn't add much.

However, many of these players are still active, so at least a couple of years would be needed to measure their careers.

My top 10, right now:
1- Sabonis
2- Manu
3- Dirk
4- Nash
5- Petrovic
6- Kukoc
7- Mutombo
8- Tony Parker
9- Dino Radja
10- Rik Smits/ Vlade Divac

But that's a list made on the run and I'm probably forgetting a couple of names.

[MagnusKrauss]

Manu is the #1 Argentinian Player in the NBA.

[DAF86]

Ummm... No?

Hakeem Olajuwon
21.8 points, 11.1 rebounds, 3 blocks, 18 year career

NBA champion (1994, '95); NBA Finals MVP (1994, '95); NBA MVP (1994); Defensive Player of Year (1993, '94); All-NBA First Team (1987, '88, '89, '93, '94, '97); All-NBA Second Team ('86, '90, '96); Third Team (1991, '95, '99); All-Defensive First Team ('87, '88, '90, '93, '94); 12-time All-Star; Olympic gold medalist (1996); One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996).

Olympic gold medalist with the United states so he shouldn't be considered an international player then

[DAF86]

oh and technically Tony P has accomplished a lil more than Manu to ya know.

Call me when Tony wins an olympic gold medal

[DAF86]

To consider somebody as the greatest ever on something, that guy needs to be a winner. You can't give that kind of recognition to people that haven't won anything. Would Duncan be consider as the best PF ever if he hasn't won 4 les? there are lots of PF's with better number than Duncan but nobody is better than him.
With Manu is the same thing, is there any doubt that he could have better numbers playing for a team like for ex. philadelphia? taking 20/25 shots per game? playing more than 30 minutes per game?
Would that make of Manu a better player? or would that only make him have better numbers?

If you find an international player (that doesn't play for the U.S) with 'bout the same amount of championships, awards and importance to those teams that Manu has, then there could be a discussion until then I'll say: yes he's the greatest international player ever in the NBA.

[ManuAddicted]

Seriously, some of you have to read about Dirk's international accomplishments.

Germany has some guys that play in second leagues around Europe, pretty much amateurs, and Dirk has made them a contender in every Euro and World Championship, medalling three times I think. Argentina on the other hand has six NBA players and consitently produces talented basketball players.

He has been World Championship MVP once, in Indy, and Euro MVP twice I think. He has always been in the tournament's First Team.

Dirk is as much a legend in the FIBA tournaments as he is in the NBA. Someone should go and watch his game winners against Spain, Russia, Nigeria the last few years. And if you didn't know this: He singlehandedly carried Germany in almost beating the US a couple of years ago. US was saved by an AI 3 point heave from midcourt as time was expiring.

If Hakeem is not considered an international, than Dirk is the best ever. Too bad we never saw Sabonis at his best. The Admiral can tell you how good he really was, afterall he got his ass handed to him in the 88 Olympics by Sabonis.

Argentina have NOW 6 NBA players...
Go back to 2002... Germany 1 NBA (Dirk), Argentina 0 (Manu came after that).
After the Olympics (2004), there were 3 Argentinian players in the NBA: Manu, Delfino & Nocioni.

Sorry, but Dirk is a choker, an eternal loser.

Manu has proven that he can win in every tournament, in every country, and he can do it without having a Top 5 player like Duncan (he did it in Italy, Europe and Olympics).

I know he is not the best international player, but... let's start this thread again in 2010

[DAF86]

I know he is not the best international player, but... let's start this thread again in 2010

Who would you select instead of Manu?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Dirk > Manu



and this coming from one of the biggest Manu fans you will ever meet.

[amy020]

Of Course

[endrity]

Argentina have NOW 6 NBA players...
Go back to 2002... Germany 1 NBA (Dirk), Argentina 0 (Manu came after that).
After the Olympics (2004), there were 3 Argentinian players in the NBA: Manu, Delfino & Nocioni.

Sorry, but Dirk is a choker, an eternal loser.


Manu has proven that he can win in every tournament, in every country, and he can do it without having a Top 5 player like Duncan (he did it in Italy, Europe and Olympics).

I know he is not the best international player, but... let's start this thread again in 2010

Yet Germany could win all the upcoming FIBA tournaments and Patrick Femerling and Mithat Demirel could never sniff the NBA.

How is Dirk a choker in international ball (he isn't one even in the NBA but whatever)? Do you know what he has achieved or not? It seems like you really need to watch more.

Ginobili played for an Argentina team that is one of the most talented top to bottom teams in the international arena. He was their leader, no doubt. But that team had a lot of good players, very good coaching, and a familiarity of playing together for a decade. He didn't win the Olympics by himself.

And Kinder Bologna in Italy wasn't chopped liver you know.

[Udrihlooms]

I love Manu, but just the fantasy of what Tim could have achieved if the Spurs core is Timmy-Dirk-Parker-Bowen + Pop . MJ's 6 rings will easily be eclipsed by Tim. I can't even start what to imagine.

Yes, I must admit, TIM+DIRK>>>>>TIM+MANU

[romain.star]

Call me when Tony wins an olympic gold medal

put manu in TP shoes, France still doesn't qualify for the Olympics

[DAF86]

put manu in TP shoes, France still doesn't qualify for the Olympics

Argentina wouldn't be an olympic champion with Tony instead of Manu

[gilmor]

MANU is the best player ever lives..

Save some freakish Alien in planet Sporks who prob can play better than him without oxygen..

[DAF86]

I love Manu, but just the fantasy of what Tim could have achieved if the Spurs core is Timmy-Dirk-Parker-Bowen + Pop . MJ's 6 rings will easily be eclipsed by Tim. I can't even start what to imagine.

Yes, I must admit, TIM+DIRK>>>>>TIM+MANU

Manu'd have found the way to win a NBA championship anyways and Dirk'd have found they way to CHOKE!!! (ok i'll admit that that last part isn't entirely fair but until someone proves the oposite...)

[DAF86]

MANU is the best player ever lives..

Save some freakish Alien in planet Sporks who prob can play better than him without oxygen..

WHAT!?

[Udrihlooms]

MANU is the best player ever lives..

Save some freakish Alien in planet Sporks who prob can play better than him without oxygen..

Hey, dude, have you ever heard of that guy named Michael... Michael Jordan, I think? He's wearing jersey #23. I heard that he's also good, though probably not as good as Manu. You think so, huh?

[Udrihlooms]

Manu'd have found the way to win a NBA championship anyways and Dirk'd have found they way to CHOKE!!! (ok i'll admit that that last part isn't entirely fair but until someone proves the oposite...)

They'll never win, and Dirk will always be a choker, not until they fire our beloved AJ. AJ is still a spur at heart.

I'm just praying that when they fire AJ, Pop will not make him an assistant or else we'll be fu(ked!

[romain.star]

Argentina wouldn't be an olympic champion with Tony instead of Manu

I wouldn't be so sure...

Anyway, I just meant that there were other great players along with manu during the olympic run. The same can't be said about Parker and France.