Celtics and Lakers Fixed?

[icem]

yea its clearly a conspiracy when the two teams with the best records in their conference end up meeting in the finals.....

the two best teams made it....

who can honestly say the spurs (who lost 4-1, including two games where they lost 17+ point leads) and the pistons (lost 4-2, including losing a 10 point lead in the 4th, AT HOME, in the biggest game of the season, WITH more fouls and FTA) should have been in the finals ????

anyone who says otherwise is in denial or an extreme homer. we got our asses kicked and so did the pistons. boston and LA have been the best teams almost all year long. boston is the best defensive team, and LA is the best offensive team. they both deserve it, and as a basketball fan i will be excited to watch it.

[Allanon]

Please read my post above, because it represents a fundamental difference in the way both sides are arguing. You're asking something along the lines of, "how can Tony Parker be an all-star? If he were an all-star, he would have gotten more playing time as a rookie and he would not have gotten schooled by Stephon Marbury in 2003." Things do change: the years the Spurs and Pistons won represented what is often thought of as years of resentment from the NBA. Every year, there were lower ratings, less controversy and fewer marketable NBA personalities. Here's another analogy for you: a man who steals 10,000 dollars from his bank but had no prior history of crimes is still a criminal (and should be punished...but that's a different topic). It takes only one day for the man to cross over from having no history of crimes to being a felon.

So your argument is the league decided it had enough of the bad Finals ratings so they fixed it so Lakers would get to meet the Celtics. They only decided they wanted to rig the NBA this year.

Is that believeable? Or is this more believeable:
1) The Celtics and Lakers this year are the 2 best teams in the NBA
2) Manu was injured in the Spur series so they lost to the Lakers
3) The Celtics were better than the Pistons. Rip was injured and so was Chauncey.
4) In the end the Lakers and Celtics are two very good teams that should be in the Finals.

If the Lakers and Celtics were sucky teams, I could believe there might be a conspiracy theory but can you honestly say there are 2 better teams in the NBA?

[v2freak]

You are half correct. Yes, I am arguing that the NBA has decided to flex it's influential muscle more than ever in "encouraging" which teams get to the finals. The officiating and NBA's choice of judgement were shoddy at times, IE Garnett pushing a referee and not getting suspended / Fisher jumping on Barry regardless of whether he traveled - how do you know he did not "travel" as a result of anticiating being whacked upside the head? Again, a conspiracy does not have to last several years. The NBA watched as hard-nosed teams like the Spurs and Pistons dominated, and probably got sick to its stomach. No doubt they are loving those damn Garnett gatorade commercials and Kobe jumping over cars/snakes/trees/planes/buildings or whatever the he does for publicity.

But no, I am not arguing that the officiating was the only factor. If anything, it probably accounted for upwards of 10%. But let me add that coming back from huge deficits has a lot to do with officiating and what calls determine who has the momentum. What makes me the most su ious are these lopsided trades. I don't know how many times I have to say this. Conspiracy can come in many shapes and sizes. Maybe it's you and other Lakers fans who can't get over the officiating, and continue spinning the "Duncan 3 step travel / Odom goaltend / Fisher's shot hit the rim".

Let me set you straight.
1.) Agree, Celtics and Lakers are the best teams in the NBA. Again, how did they go from nothing to everything?
2.) Yes, Manu was injured and played a big role in losing to LA.
3.) Sure, whatever you say. 7 games to Atlanta, 7 games to Cleveland, 6 games to Detroit
4.) Yes, they are two very good teams. Pardon me if I won't be watching and thinking that it's gonna be the most exciting finals ever.

I offered my congratulations and conceded that the Lakers were the better team. Yet many of you are still here. Fans like KobeOwnsBowen claims he/she/it does not care whether Spurs fans watch the Finals or not. Lucky for us he and others continue to display good sportsmanship via taunting and trolling. Some Lakers fans here act like the Spurs and Lakers are western conference brethren and that Spurs fans should back the Lakers. No, not everyone wants to kiss LA's nuts; I won't be rooting for you or against you - considering I dislike the Celtics as well.

If the public later finds out that the NBA is more corrupt than previously thought, I will only shake my head. Think about it from their perspective. Would it look good for the NBA to put two great teams in the Finals after 1 year of "bad ratings"? No, that would be too obvious. If there indeed is a conspiracy, it is working perfectly as it has already sucked up all of the oblivious people who think that conspiracies have a time frame.

And to reiterate, I am simply playing both sides of the coin. I don't know if the NBA is rigging anything nor do I endorse such a conspiracy theory, but I may very well be headed in that direction given the ignorance of those who refuse to acknowledge what can only be described as shady. Many have dismissed it prematurely either because they want to live and die by the "no excuses" ideology, because they have not explored all of the possibilities, or simply because they are Lakers fans/Celtics fans/Demoralized Suns fans.

[YellowFever]

Of course it was fixed....

Stern got a couple of Ex-KGB types to take Ginobili to Area 51 between the series with NO and LA and put his ankle in a vice..and boom!

Makes perfect sense.

Also he hired a bunch of voodoo doctors and cast a spell on TP so he couldn't make any shots over 15 feet.

And did you see that instant replay where in the middle of the 3rd in Game 1 where Stern twitched his nose and the refs just subtly nodded their heads and and Lakers came back from 20 down....

And, hey, did you also see that replay where.....

[Allanon]

You are half correct. Yes, I am arguing that the NBA has decided to flex it's influential muscle more than ever in "encouraging" which teams get to the finals. The officiating and NBA's choice of judgement were shoddy at times, IE Garnett pushing a referee and not getting suspended / Fisher jumping on Barry regardless of whether he traveled - how do you know he did not "travel" as a result of anticiating being whacked upside the head?

I don't think there is precedent for shoving a referee loose...I think it happens often but isn't called. The ref initiated the contact, KG wasn't looking to harm or fight the ref so I don't know if that's worthy of a suspension.

As for the travel, even if he was anticipating a knock by Fisher, that's still a travel.

No, not everyone wants to kiss LA's nuts; I won't be rooting for you or against you - considering I dislike the Celtics as well.

Nothing wrong with that.

If the public later finds out that the NBA is more corrupt than previously thought, I will only shake my head. Think about it from their perspective. Would it look good for the NBA to put two great teams in the Finals after 1 year of "bad ratings"? No, that would be too obvious. If there indeed is a conspiracy, it is working perfectly as it has already sucked up all of the oblivious people who think that conspiracies have a time frame.

IF, it comes out later on it was some big conspiracy, I'll be shaking my head along with you. Until then, I think the Celtics and Lakers are in the Finals because they won games.

And to reiterate, I am simply playing both sides of the coin. I don't know if the NBA is rigging anything nor do I endorse such a conspiracy theory, but I may very well be headed in that direction given the ignorance of those who refuse to acknowledge what can only be described as shady. Many have dismissed it prematurely either because they want to live and die by the "no excuses" ideology, because they have not explored all of the possibilities, or simply because they are Lakers fans/Celtics fans/Demoralized Suns fans.

The other side of the coin is Spur fans only offer up conspiracies when their team loses but not when they win. Definitely two ways to look at it depending on what side you're on.

[angelbelow]

its possible.

[Supergirl]

Absolutely. Celtics were allowed to get away with against Atlanta, Cleveland, and Detroit.

Lakers have had a pretty easy path other than the Spurs, and the refs were totally in their back pocket all the way. Refs did their best to make NO win, NO just made some dumb mistakes than the Spurs were able to capitalize on.

Yes, there is a BIG part of me that thinks this whole playoffs has been rigged - because I still look at these teams and think the SPurs and the Pistons are EASILY the two best teams in the league.

Of course, I also saw the Spurs looking like they were running out of gas - esp Manu -but then again, when you have to beat the other team and the refs EVERy NIGHT - that takes its toll on you.

[Lakers_55]

As for the travel, even if he was anticipating a knock by Fisher, that's still a travel.

That's also brilliant defense, intimidation to force the travel. Fisher knew what he was doing. NBA dropped the ball not saying Barry traveled. Of course, the reason is there was a conspiracy. The League has some agenda in mind but we don't know what yet, and may never.

SA fans who say they won't be watching the finals are probably lying. They will be, no one wants to miss this.

[Dopey310]

Absolutely. Celtics were allowed to get away with against Atlanta, Cleveland, and Detroit.

Lakers have had a pretty easy path other than the Spurs, and the refs were totally in their back pocket all the way. Refs did their best to make NO win, NO just made some dumb mistakes than the Spurs were able to capitalize on.

Yes, there is a BIG part of me that thinks this whole playoffs has been rigged - because I still look at these teams and think the SPurs and the Pistons are EASILY the two best teams in the league.

Of course, I also saw the Spurs looking like they were running out of gas - esp Manu -but then again, when you have to beat the other team and the refs EVERy NIGHT - that takes its toll on you.

You sound like a sore loser. Must be difficult to be a Spurs fans when the refs are against you every night. I guess the Spurs were so great these past 9 years that they managed to win 4 les despite the refs always favoring the other team. Or did Stern decide to screw the Spurs this year?

[Man In Black]

All I know is this:
the Yahoo mouthpiece known as Dan Wetzel posted the following line:

No one saw this coming then. Everyone will be watching now.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns

You see that, that is called deflection. And Yahoo is playing the NBA's game.

[TampaDude]

That's also brilliant defense, intimidation to force the travel. Fisher knew what he was doing. NBA dropped the ball not saying Barry traveled. Of course, the reason is there was a conspiracy. The League has some agenda in mind but we don't know what yet, and may never.

SA fans who say they won't be watching the finals are probably lying. They will be, no one wants to miss this.

yeah I'm gonna watch the Finals...it's gonna be great to watch the Lakeshow dismantle the soft, soft Celtics...

[monosylab1k]

Spurs-Lakers series wasn't fixed. It didn't have to be.

The Lakers getting Pau Gasol for basically nothing was the fixed part.

Collusion*

[Purple & Gold]

spurs fan sounds sad and bitter

[Los Spurs]

Did anybody else feel that the whole playoffs were fixed for the celtics and the lakers? I mean they got away with a lot of stuff.
No free throws for berry and there were a lot of bad calls in both series favouring LA and Boston.

[DazedAndConfused]

I get the feeling the Spurs and Pistons were inferior teams and got beat fair and square.

I also get the feeling Spur fan can NEVER talk to Sun fan about whining. You've officially lost that right.

[Fabbs]

Poppy blowing Gm 1s 20 pt lead and then a 17 pt lead in Gm 5 compared to conspiracy theory?...

Naw. The non call on Barry was a joke but even on that play Barry held the power to jump into DSwisher and most likely get the 3 shot foul. Of course Pop probably has Barry practice that in end of game practice sessions, right?

Naw, the Spurs sealed their own fate vs the Fakers.

[icem]

Absolutely. Celtics were allowed to get away with against Atlanta, Cleveland, and Detroit.

Lakers have had a pretty easy path other than the Spurs, and the refs were totally in their back pocket all the way. Refs did their best to make NO win, NO just made some dumb mistakes than the Spurs were able to capitalize on.

Yes, there is a BIG part of me that thinks this whole playoffs has been rigged - because I still look at these teams and think the SPurs and the Pistons are EASILY the two best teams in the league.

Of course, I also saw the Spurs looking like they were running out of gas - esp Manu -but then again, when you have to beat the other team and the refs EVERy NIGHT - that takes its toll on you.

as a spurs fan i have to say, you are an idiot.....

we got our asses kicked plain and simple. we had plenty of opportunities to at least push it a game 6 at home, which could have led to a game 7 where anything can happen and we just failed. the better team won. we haven't looked like a championship team anyway since we got off the the great start at the beginning of the year. we have sucked against teams above .500 since then. we barely got by the hornets and then get smacked by the lakers. we were NOT the better team, which was pretty easy to see.

[Spurs da champs]

I get the feeling the Spurs and Pistons were inferior teams and got beat fair and square.

I also get the feeling Spur fan can NEVER talk to Sun fan about whining. You've officially lost that right.

No both teams defiantly had the potential to beat the lakers and celtics,But that no call at the end of game 4 is what screwed the spurs if they got free throws would have sent it to a game 6 b/c I know they would beat them in ot.
If KG got suspended for 2 or more games for pushing that official the celtics would be screwed.

[Supergirl]

You sound like a sore loser. Must be difficult to be a Spurs fans when the refs are against you every night. I guess the Spurs were so great these past 9 years that they managed to win 4 les despite the refs always favoring the other team. Or did Stern decide to screw the Spurs this year?

Every le I've watched the Spurs win, with the exception of the one in 1999, has consisted of the Spurs winning against their opponent and the refs. It simply says a lot about how good the Spurs have been than they've won despite never getting the benefit of the calls from the refs. It also means they're capable of winning despite the refs. But this year, the refs plus Manu being injured meant they did not have enough in the tank to win it all.

It is simply a fact from anyone who follows basketball that the Spurs do not get the calls. Tim Duncan is the only superstar in the league who consistently does not get the calls - an unfortunate trait he inherited from his predecessor, David Robinson.

[Allanon]

During the Laker Spur series, I would say the Spurs got more calls to go their way. Even in the Barry non-call, he traveled before the foul, not to mention the Fisher shot hitting the rim but being ruled an airball. In addition, Duncan averaged around 10 foul shots per game, while Kobe averaged probably 1-2 Free Throws per game.

The Spurs this year had one of the lowest foul counts in the NBA, refs don't really call fouls on the Spurs much either.

And yes, Spurs do get calls to go their way. If you go back to the Spurs/Suns series:


I don't complain about the refs because it goes both ways, you might get screwed in 1 game but you get one in another.

[TheMACHINE]

Fixed? LOL...its an even year...spurs cant win in 2008, its part of the contract Pop did with Stern.

"The Spurs shall win only every other year after the Lakers finish thier contract for a threepeat."

[v2freak]

The other side of the coin is Spur fans only offer up conspiracies when their team loses but not when they win. Definitely two ways to look at it depending on what side you're on.

This year only confirms what Spurs fans have suspected for years: no way was the NBA happy with what was going on. It seems that a well-mannered and well-executing but "boring" team is just not as charismatic as a well-known team that has players who chant, holler and create controversy.

You could very well argue that. Afterall, I would say the same thing if I were a fan of a different team. But the Spurs winning for years only serves as a possible reason why the NBA would begin fixing things. The truth is, not rigging the outcome of games in the past does not serve as a precedent that it will never happen, period.

That's also brilliant defense, intimidation to force the travel. Fisher knew what he was doing. NBA dropped the ball not saying Barry traveled. Of course, the reason is there was a conspiracy. The League has some agenda in mind but we don't know what yet, and may never.

SA fans who say they won't be watching the finals are probably lying. They will be, no one wants to miss this.

Yeah that's one way to spin it. Let's make it sound even better: that kind of defense is revolutionary and will change the way all teams play defense. Maybe in 2016, we'll see Tony Parker whip out some mace and cause opposing point guards to cringe and travel out of fear.

[21_Blessings]

yeah I'm gonna watch the Finals...it's gonna be great to watch the Lakeshow dismantle the soft, soft Celtics...

Welcome aboard.

[Dopey310]

Every le I've watched the Spurs win, with the exception of the one in 1999, has consisted of the Spurs winning against their opponent and the refs. It simply says a lot about how good the Spurs have been than they've won despite never getting the benefit of the calls from the refs. It also means they're capable of winning despite the refs. But this year, the refs plus Manu being injured meant they did not have enough in the tank to win it all.

It is simply a fact from anyone who follows basketball that the Spurs do not get the calls. Tim Duncan is the only superstar in the league who consistently does not get the calls - an unfortunate trait he inherited from his predecessor, David Robinson.

I'm sorry, but you're homerism is . http://youtube.com/watch?v=fvkKdXLwt0U

Spurs never gets calls? Duncan doesn't get superstar calls? You mean, every time Duncan makes his "who me" face, he's always right? Spurs only got favorable calls when Donaghy refs I guess.

[Reggie Miller]

You are half correct. Yes, I am arguing that the NBA has decided to flex it's influential muscle more than ever in "encouraging" which teams get to the finals. The officiating and NBA's choice of judgement were shoddy at times, IE Garnett pushing a referee and not getting suspended / Fisher jumping on Barry regardless of whether he traveled - how do you know he did not "travel" as a result of anticiating being whacked upside the head? Again, a conspiracy does not have to last several years. The NBA watched as hard-nosed teams like the Spurs and Pistons dominated, and probably got sick to its stomach. No doubt they are loving those damn Garnett gatorade commercials and Kobe jumping over cars/snakes/trees/planes/buildings or whatever the he does for publicity.

But no, I am not arguing that the officiating was the only factor. If anything, it probably accounted for upwards of 10%. But let me add that coming back from huge deficits has a lot to do with officiating and what calls determine who has the momentum. What makes me the most su ious are these lopsided trades. I don't know how many times I have to say this. Conspiracy can come in many shapes and sizes. Maybe it's you and other Lakers fans who can't get over the officiating, and continue spinning the "Duncan 3 step travel / Odom goaltend / Fisher's shot hit the rim".

Let me set you straight.
1.) Agree, Celtics and Lakers are the best teams in the NBA. Again, how did they go from nothing to everything?
2.) Yes, Manu was injured and played a big role in losing to LA.
3.) Sure, whatever you say. 7 games to Atlanta, 7 games to Cleveland, 6 games to Detroit
4.) Yes, they are two very good teams. Pardon me if I won't be watching and thinking that it's gonna be the most exciting finals ever.

I offered my congratulations and conceded that the Lakers were the better team. Yet many of you are still here. Fans like KobeOwnsBowen claims he/she/it does not care whether Spurs fans watch the Finals or not. Lucky for us he and others continue to display good sportsmanship via taunting and trolling. Some Lakers fans here act like the Spurs and Lakers are western conference brethren and that Spurs fans should back the Lakers. No, not everyone wants to kiss LA's nuts; I won't be rooting for you or against you - considering I dislike the Celtics as well.

If the public later finds out that the NBA is more corrupt than previously thought, I will only shake my head. Think about it from their perspective. Would it look good for the NBA to put two great teams in the Finals after 1 year of "bad ratings"? No, that would be too obvious. If there indeed is a conspiracy, it is working perfectly as it has already sucked up all of the oblivious people who think that conspiracies have a time frame.

And to reiterate, I am simply playing both sides of the coin. I don't know if the NBA is rigging anything nor do I endorse such a conspiracy theory, but I may very well be headed in that direction given the ignorance of those who refuse to acknowledge what can only be described as shady. Many have dismissed it prematurely either because they want to live and die by the "no excuses" ideology, because they have not explored all of the possibilities, or simply because they are Lakers fans/Celtics fans/Demoralized Suns fans.

As a Pacers fan, all I know is that the league has to deal with perception, as well as "reality." Were the Pacers the better team in 2000? no. Were they playing five on eight? yes. In other words, I don't think officiating determined the outcome of the 2000 Finals, but it sure as wasn't fair and impartial.

Explain to me, Lakers' fans, why the NBA, which has a salary cap, has the least parity of all major professional sports leagues?

P.S. The Lakers lick the sweat off of dead men's balls.