This Bud's from Belgiam?

[Clandestino]

Well, drinking only quality beers, I don't care what happens to Shludwiller. The le caught me off guard also. Real Budweiser in made in Czechoslovakia.

Budweiser trademark dispute, part of wiki link:






I've had real Budweiser when I lived in Germany. Puts the USA stuff to shame. The imports out of Europe usually aren't the same quality after such long shipping times and conditions. Any import found here may not be as good as buying it there.

ive had this before. it sucks. i lived in europe for 6 years and this stuff sucks...

also american budweiser has won many lawsuits against the czech budweiser for the original naming rights.

[Don Quixote]

Wild Irish Rose is more flavorful than Thunderbird.

Wild Irish Rose is for women and high-school-aged wusses. Thunderbird, and Mickey's Malt Liquor, are drinks for a man.

[BradLohaus]

Thunderbird, and Mickey's Malt Liquor, are drinks for a man

There we go, Thunderbird and Mickey's hand grenades. That takes me back.

Mickey's, Thunderbird and Mad Dog 20/20. The triumverate

[101A]

Alcohol and dancing are the Devil's traps.

Don't know if you are being sarcastic; but you might bone up on the number of times GOD blesses people, nations, etc...with good wine, as do ented in the Bible. God is a pawn of the Devil?

[Extra Stout]

Don't know if you are being sarcastic; but you might bone up on the number of times GOD blesses people, nations, etc...with good wine, as do ented in the Bible. God is a pawn of the Devil?

That was grape juice, not wine. God miraculously kept it from fermenting.

[jochhejaam]

That was grape juice, not wine. God miraculously kept it from fermenting.

The archaeological finding of one of the six stone jars used in the miracle of turning water into wine was pristinely preserved, to the extent that residue scraped from the inside, when mixed with the appropiate chemicals, provided an accurate alcohol content.
It was found to be approximately .5 percent alcohol, or the same amount found in the non-alcolholic beverages Sharp's and Kingsbury.

[jochhejaam]

[QUOTE=101A;2598518]Don't know if you are being sarcastic; but you might bone up on the number of times GOD blesses people, nations, etc...with good wine, as do ented in the Bible. QUOTE]

Help me out here 101, how many times did He?

[101A]

The archaeological finding of one of the six stone jars used in the miracle of turning water into wine was pristinely preserved, to the extent that residue scraped from the inside, when mixed with the appropiate chemicals, provided an accurate alcohol content.
It was found to be approximately .5 percent alcohol, or the same amount found in the non-alcolholic beverages Sharp's and Kingsbury.

There was no refrigeration; how in the world did the ancient abstainers keep the grape juice to such a modest alcohol content; keep it from fermenting? Chances are their version actually was of a higher alcohol content than much of the wine we consume today; granted, for drinking to quench thirst it was mixed with water.

[101A]

http://wooga.drbacchus.com/bible/alcoholr.html

That's every reference to alcohol in the Bible.

[Extra Stout]

The archaeological finding of one of the six stone jars used in the miracle of turning water into wine was pristinely preserved, to the extent that residue scraped from the inside, when mixed with the appropiate chemicals, provided an accurate alcohol content.
It was found to be approximately .5 percent alcohol, or the same amount found in the non-alcolholic beverages Sharp's and Kingsbury.

That is funny on so many levels.

[jochhejaam]

http://wooga.drbacchus.com/bible/alcoholr.html

That's every reference to alcohol in the Bible.

Thanks, but I'm not interested in an extensive search, although I don't recall much in the way of "wine blessings" being in the Bible. I was under the impression that your quote, "...but you might bone up on the number of times GOD blesses people, nations, etc...with good wine, as do ented", inferred that you had boned up on it, and had a specific number in mind.


My belief is that Christs' miracle was a prelude and introduction into his engendered relationship with God, via a miracle, rather than an endorsement of alcohol consumption.

[Extra Stout]

The only way Pentecostal clergy can get away with those kinds of stories is that the congregation abstains from alcohol and knows nothing about how wine is produced.

[jochhejaam]

The only way Pentecostal clergy can get away with those kinds of stories is that the congregation abstains from alcohol and knows nothing about how wine is produced.

Actually never heard a sermon like that, I was just flying by the seat of my pants.

Shouldn't have edited out my last line of "Believe It, Or Not".

[Extra Stout]

My belief is that Christs' miracle was a prelude and introduction into his engendered relationship with God, via a miracle, rather than an endorsement of alcohol consumption.

The abolitionist strain of the temperance movement did not exist in Western society until the 19th century, among Christians or anybody else. It was a result of the breakdown of informal social controls against drunkenness which came due to the effects of urbanization, and the lawlessness of the open West. The movement started in the United States and spread to the other English-speaking industrialized nations.

It emerged at the same time as the Restorationist and Pietist movement, which is why so many of those groups take it as gospel. It reached its zenith around the turn of the century, which was when the Pentecostal movement split off from the Pietists. That is why Pentecostals are so fervent about it.

It has nothing to do with historic orthodox Christianity. Abolition of alcohol consumption within Christianity is a cultural pecularity rooted in a particular time and place. Choosing not to drink is fine and dandy. Choosing to set an example in a local environment where extreme drunkenness is a problem is laudable. Attempting to impose that conviction on other Christians is error.

[101A]

Thanks, but I'm not interested in an extensive search, although I don't recall much in the way of "wine blessings" being in the Bible. I was under the impression that your quote, "...but you might bone up on the number of times GOD blesses people, nations, etc...with good wine, as do ented", inferred that you had boned up on it, and had a specific number in mind.


My belief is that Christs' miracle was a prelude and introduction into his engendered relationship with God, via a miracle, rather than an endorsement of alcohol consumption.

How about "Do this in remembrance of me".

Is that an endorsement?

145 is the specific number I had in mind (might be off by a couple).

[Extra Stout]

Actually never heard a sermon like that, I was just flying by the seat of my pants.

Shouldn't not have edited out my last line of "Believe It, Or Not".

OK, you stumped me. I actually couldn't tell whether that was satire or not. I just remember having this discussion with an A/G roommate in college.

[101A]

The abolitionist strain of the temperance movement did not exist in Western society until the 19th century, among Christians or anybody else. It was a result of the breakdown of informal social controls against drunkenness which came due to the effects of urbanization, and the lawlessness of the open West. The movement started in the United States and spread to the other English-speaking industrialized nations.

It emerged at the same time as the Restorationist and Pietist movement, which is why so many of those groups take it as gospel. It reached its zenith around the turn of the century, which was when the Pentecostal movement split off from the Pietists. That is why Pentecostals are so fervent about it.

It has nothing to do with historic orthodox Christianity. Abolition of alcohol consumption within Christianity is a cultural pecularity rooted in a particular time and place. Choosing not to drink is fine and dandy. Choosing to set an example in a local environment where extreme drunkenness is a problem is laudable. Attempting to impose that conviction on other Christians is error.

You would be a kick in small group.

[Extra Stout]

You would be a kick in small group.

What would be the response if I asked,

"Why is it that Roman Catholics, Greek Orthodox, Eastern Catholics, Coptics, Armenians, Assyrians, Nestorians, and all the other churches, Nicene or otherwise, that have been around for over a millenium, have worship practices that look really similar to one another, even among those that have had little to no contact for a thousand years, while we American evangelicals, who worship in ways radically different from all of them, insist we have maintained the ways of the early church?"

Would they kick me out before I could even get a slice of pizza?

[Don Quixote]

Thanks, but I'm not interested in an extensive search, although I don't recall much in the way of "wine blessings" being in the Bible. I was under the impression that your quote, "...but you might bone up on the number of times GOD blesses people, nations, etc...with good wine, as do ented", inferred that you had boned up on it, and had a specific number in mind.


My belief is that Christs' miracle was a prelude and introduction into his engendered relationship with God, via a miracle, rather than an endorsement of alcohol consumption.

I agree ... the miracle at Cana was not intended to be an endorsement of alcohol consumption. Its point was to announce the beginning of Jesus' ministry. But we shouldn't say that the Scriptures totally rule out the occasional or moderate consumption of wine, either. I don't think they do, anyway.

But I respect those who don't drink. Shoot, I don't drink.

[Don Quixote]

What would be the response if I asked,

"Why is it that Roman Catholics, Greek Orthodox, Eastern Catholics, Coptics, Armenians, Assyrians, Nestorians, and all the other churches, Nicene or otherwise, that have been around for over a millenium, have worship practices that look really similar to one another, even among those that have had little to no contact for a thousand years, while we American evangelicals, who worship in ways radically different from all of them, insist we have maintained the ways of the early church?"

Would they kick me out before I could even get a slice of pizza?

I wouldn't. You're absolutely right that North American Christianity (fundamentalism) has tended to impose modern (19th century) readings on the biblical text, and confused that which is laudable with that which is commanded in scripture. I think evangelicalism is starting to come around, though.

[jochhejaam]

The abolitionist strain of the temperance movement did not exist in Western society until the 19th century, among Christians or anybody else. It was a result of the breakdown of informal social controls against drunkenness which came due to the effects of urbanization, and the lawlessness of the open West. The movement started in the United States and spread to the other English-speaking industrialized nations.

It emerged at the same time as the Restorationist and Pietist movement, which is why so many of those groups take it as gospel. It reached its zenith around the turn of the century, which was when the Pentecostal movement split off from the Pietists. That is why Pentecostals are so fervent about it.

It has nothing to do with historic orthodox Christianity. Abolition of alcohol consumption within Christianity is a cultural pecularity rooted in a particular time and place. Choosing not to drink is fine and dandy. Choosing to set an example in a local environment where extreme drunkenness is a problem is laudable. Attempting to impose that conviction on other Christians is error.

Thanks for the education Stout, and we're on the same page in the bolded type.

But we shouldn't say that the Scriptures totally rule out the occasional or moderate consumption of wine, either. I don't think they do, anyway.

Sounds right to me DQ.

[101A]

What would be the response if I asked,

"Why is it that Roman Catholics, Greek Orthodox, Eastern Catholics, Coptics, Armenians, Assyrians, Nestorians, and all the other churches, Nicene or otherwise, that have been around for over a millenium, have worship practices that look really similar to one another, even among those that have had little to no contact for a thousand years, while we American evangelicals, who worship in ways radically different from all of them, insist we have maintained the ways of the early church?"

Would they kick me out before I could even get a slice of pizza?

They don't kick me out for drinking a beer (when it's held at my house); I'm sure they'd let you hang around - and stare in awe if you are a member of one of the aforementioned ancient denominations who actually READS the Bible..

[xrayzebra]

Seems like in my college days when studying world lit and
the Greeks, it was stated that they actually mixed wine
with water, about half and half. But I could be wrong.

[Extra Stout]

They don't kick me out for drinking a beer (when it's held at my house); I'm sure they'd let you hang around - and stare in awe if you are a member of one of the aforementioned ancient denominations who actually READS the Bible..

Individual reading of the Bible didn't really take off until Wittenberg.

[Extra Stout]

Seems like in my college days when studying world lit and
the Greeks, it was stated that they actually mixed wine
with water, about half and half. But I could be wrong.

DING! Diluted wine was common, because, well, it's cheaper.