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It wouldn't be a bad idea to keep Vaughn as he may help cultivate a sense of leadership in J.R. that he lacks.
I think Vaughn stays regardless. Until you address the backup point spot you will need him. Even if you do, he'd be very nice insurance as the 3rd point.
It wouldn't be a bad idea to keep Vaughn as he may help cultivate a sense of leadership in J.R. that he lacks.
for those questioning jr smiths defense, just remember finleys. jr smith is NOT going to hurt as bad as finley did.
JR Smith is a worse defender. Finley also had the advantage of being a winner, something of a leader, and had plenty of playoff experience by the time he came to the Spurs, not to mention was nothing but a stand-up guy and good citizen.
Josh Smith was never a headcase. JR Smith is a serious headcase. Josh Smith is an all-around talent who plays to make his team win. JR Smith, not so much.
He's just hammering the dude
His chances of coming here are low. Unless his agent thinks a 2 year stint in SA will help improve his value, it's a long shot. If JR thinks he will be given minutes here to showcase his talents, then it's possible. And that's how both sides should probably consider him coming here - a short term lease where we need scoring and he needs to put up points so he can score a fat contract afterwards. In that sense, I think both sides might be in agreement, maybe.
That's the only way it works, anyway. If we sign him to a long term MLE contract, Denver matches it, because it's cheap on the back end when some of their bad contracts roll off. Only a short term deal works. It may not be worth it to match, try to shed salary by dumping one or more bigs, and then have him walk in two years anyway.
Fin wasn't good on defense, but at least he gave a damn. And Finley is smart. Smith is a one trick pony. He reminds me of Vernon Maxwell - if Maxwell had ever decided that playing defense is for wussies.
It's easy to forget that in December, Smith was 12-42 (.285) from the 3-point line; and in January he went 13-44 (.295). (Maxwell was streaky like that, too.) It's also easy to forget that in the 06-07 playoffs, he made 0 three-pointers in 4 games. It probably should not be so easy to forget that he was driving the car the night that Andre Bell was thrown from the vehicle and killed. Or that the last "incident" that got him suspended was as recent as October 2007 - after the accident that killed his friend.
He scores in streaks and droughts, which only makes sense if he could guarantee that his streaks would come when the rest of the team was in a drought. He doesn't seem to care about anything but his own shot. And he so far seems totally unrepentant about his off-court distractions to the team.
This is from a Denver Post article:
After a morning practice during the regular season, I remember Smith standing bare to the waist in the Pepsi Center, wearing a too-cool smirk as he watched Los Angeles players walk solemnly behind coach Phil Jackson as the Lakers took the court.
"Glad that ain't me," Smith declared. "Look at them. No singing. No smiling. Looks like they're all going to prison."
There went Smith, playing the fool again, poking fun of pros acting professional, eliciting laughter by making a joke at the expense of his life's work.
It was funny at the time.
But what will it take for the 21-year-old Nuggets guard to finally grow up?
If the loss of a friend doesn't scare him straight, then sooner or later, Smith will die a fool.
Last edited by GSH; 06-23-2008 at 08:18 PM.
I'm willing to admit that Finley had great character and commanded the respect of the team. In that aspect, JR Smith will never be able to compete.
But as far as performance on the court, the streakiness you describe in JR could be cut and pasted in describing Finley. Finley's only potential contribution on the court this year was with his shooting, and that too was streaky all season long. I don't recall Finley ever doing a great job of getting others involved. If anything it seemed to be the job of the rest of the team to get Finley going. Pop wanted points out of Finley. Why would Pop expect something vastly different from JR? And if Pop did, then he probably shouldn't be recruiting him.
Soon enough, we'll see how the Spurs play their cards.
JR is far from perfect, but neither was Finley. Your issue with these players seems more to be about appearance and not results.
that is a very good point. oddly another player the spurs had wanted for a while was barry and he came here in FA. ofcourse once he was here we kept trying to trade him.
If you're talking about Finley just for 07-08, I can't disagree. It was just a butt-ugly year. But even when Finley is struggling, he's a guy you want on your team. You can overcome a lot on a basketball court by playing as a team.
My problem with Smith is that he hasn't shown any signs that he thinks his behavior is a problem, even after killing his good friend. It didn't seem to get his attention. And it's a mistake to think that his at ude is only a problem off the court. It's not. He has a "me first" at ude that is a part of everything he does. And I really think he may be a career head case like Maxwell.
My opinion - if there's anything worse than having a guy who is a sub-par performer, it's one who is a good performer when he feels like it, and a cancer the rest of the time. I know Maxwell contributed to a couple of championships, but I also remember him faking an injury in the playoffs because he didn't think he was getting enough minutes. I can see Smith pulling something like that.
But yeah, I admit he puts up numbers.
...and Finley is not?
Pop is very similar to Byron Scott and Georger Karl in this respect: You have to display the proper at ude including buying into the team concept or you do not get any minutes.
Pop may even be more demanding in this regard than these coaches who've basically given up on this kid because of his at ude.
Add that to off court shenanigans, and I'm dubious that he would find a spot anywhere here except in Pop's doghouse. Once there, you're doomed.
This is from a Peter Vescey column-- I'm not saying his word is Gospel, but I think Josh was a little tougher to handle in the past than he is now...
HAWKS AIN'T JOSHIN'
CUSS & FUSS: Josh Smith was suspended by the Hawks for two games yesterday, one day after an expletive-filled tirade at coach Mike Woodson (left) late in a loss to the 76ers.
April 10, 2007 -- THE NBA must be thrilled about the graceful 24 hours it experienced Sunday/Monday. Aside from Miami Beach police playing ring around (James) Posey in the early a.m., the Hawks suspended Josh Smith two games yesterday after Mike Woodson banished him to the locker room during Atlanta's loss in Philly for calling him names he'd only heard from rappers...
.....Two summers ago, a source swore he was in a club when the under-age Smith was asked to leave after acting up when a bartender refused to serve him. That's when things almost got of hand.
"Josh kept threatening he was going home to get his gat and was coming back with his peeps," the source asserted. "Thank goodness Josh Childress was there. He kept calming down Smith and telling him to chill. Finally, he got him out of there before anything physical or worse happened."
Yup, if I'm the Hawks, Smith's the guy I want to bankroll this summer as my franchise player. The predicament is, if they don't, we all know there will be at least one team (and all it takes is one) who'll be more than willing to take a five-year, $50 millions-$60 million guaranteed gamble the season after next (when he becomes free) on such a talented head case.
Last edited by Tully365; 06-25-2008 at 05:41 PM.
The really amazing thing about this article is the reminder that Josh Smith was too young last year to go into a bar and order a beer! And a year later, he almost helps take down the Celtics. Hard to believe...
Yeah if Smith's jumper gets more consistent, hes gonna be an all star for a long time.
The more I think about it, the more unlikely it seems JR would join the Spurs on his own. Before, he was part of a proposed trade-- he had no say. Now he's a free agent. And I think the pitch looks like this to him: "Hey Mr Smith, would you like to be scoring option #4 on a disciplined team that focuses primarily on defense and is coached by an in-your-face drill sergeant?"My gut says that Pietrus would help the Spurs more than Smith. He fits the swingman need more precisely than JR and I think he can score despite some skepticism about that.
The key question is whether JR is like Stephen Jackson -- a great player in the clutch -- or like so many flashy guys -- disappears in the clutch.
If Pietrus' main flaw is that he is dumb, how smart do we think JR is?
It'd be different if the Spurs were offering more money than anybody else, but that's not the case.
How do you know this for sure? Which team do you feel will offer more than the MLE?
Besides, he wasn't even the 4th scoring option in Denver. How do you know he'd be the 4th if he came here?
I don't "know" for sure at all... I'm just saying the Spurs can't outbid most teams-- the most they can do is max out at the MLE. And the "milk & cookies" image of the Spurs along with the defense-first approach doesn't strike me as something that would necessarily appeal to the immature JR, who I'm guessing would rather be Da Man on a run-&-gun type of team.
Last edited by Tully365; 06-26-2008 at 03:35 PM.
If his agent was trying to convince him (or if he chooses on his own) that if he want to be "Da Man" on any team and earn the big payday, he has to prove that he has matured and turned himself around - and what better place to to that than in San Antonio? Besides, have you not heard that the Spurs over the past few years have transformed from the "milk & cookies" image of soft players to the "Evil Empire" of dirty players that play too physical?
Not to burst anyone's bubble on J.R. Smith but Mark Warkentien of the Nuggets' front office was on the local sports talk morning show this morning (I live in Denver) and said flat out that they would a) give Smith a qualifying offer and b) match any offer. Smith's not leaving Denver.
J.R.'s only hope to mature as both a basketball player and a person is to leave the "team" he's on. He'll continue to dissapoint and underchieve as long as he's there.
I highly doubt AGAIN, the team is willing to pay 11.6 million a year for their 4th scorer....
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