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Mr. Body is getting absolutely demolished by logic in this thread.
If you have some time and patience, after the giddiness has passed, Donte Greene may be a player. Otherwise, I think the Joey Dorsey pick got the Rockets a better contributor than Greene.
Jay Bilas' comments regarding Donte Greene at the draft - "frankly, a lot of his shots are bad shots"..."he's got to learn to take better shots, I mean he is not selective at all with the shots he takes. That's why he shoots such a poor percentage."
Mr. Body is getting absolutely demolished by logic in this thread.
Nothing there says he and his agent were the only ones involved. Jesus, man.
I think Batum got the impression that the Spurs wanted him, and he crafted this "strategy" with his agent. IMO, no agent would allow their guy to do something like that without some assurance they'll be picked in the first.
However, this does not necessitate that the Spurs gave any kind of promise. Hill's comments indicate the Spurs were virtually assured to take him if he dropped. I think the Spurs believed the Lakers or some other team would trade into the first and take Hill (ridiculous as that seems), which would make Batum a secondary, and in their minds, the more likely available pick. I doubt Batum had any clue Hill would be the primary target if both were on the board.
This is all rampant speculation, as is everything in this thread. Either way, it's done.
I'm starting to wonder if the Spurs--at one time--were highly interested in Batum--talked with him about rotation, etc--but then changed their minds once they worked out Hill?
The newspaper reported that the Spurs made the decision within a couple of days before the draft.
Does anyone know in what order the Spurs worked out both Batum and Hill?
I tend to think that they worked out Batum first-got impressed and left an impression he was their man.
But then--they worked out Hill.
They had a dilemma.
But they finally decided that Hill was their man and told Hill that if he was still available at pick 26, he would be selected.
Like Kori has stated previously, the people who contend that Batum was the objective are ignoring the phone calls by the Spurs to Hill.
Regardless of all this talk about whether SA was indeed targeting Batum or not, Portland liked him regardless. They worked out a deal with Houston to get the pick and thats that. Batum had one of the best individual workouts at the Blazer practice facility, Paul Allen sat in on only a handful of workouts and was right there for Batum.
I agree about the smoke screens though, I can see SA showing interest in Batum only to 'really' want Hill all along. It is much the same as how Portland made a point to not discuss Bayless as an option with their first pick once his agent refused to let him come work out. Instead they made everyone in the league think they were targeting Westbrook and Augustine instead. Much like how you guys seem to think Houston and Dallas are out to get you. The talk around the water coolers here in Portland is that Seattle tried to do the same to Portland by taking Westbrook. Truth is they took who they felt they wanted, and possibly who they thought the great GM KP was eyeballing.
Anyway the talk at the Press Conferance was pretty lame last night as KP couldn't talk about any of the deals because of all the legal issues. It was entertaining though watching him pick and chose his words, asking his legal represen ive Tom Penn if he could speak on pretty much any questions the reporters were asking him.
In the End Portland got exactily what they wanted. They cured there PG problem... Bayless will come in and initially backup Blake and eventually earn the spot. And Diago gives portland the muscle they needed off the bench. Initially the talk is that Batum was going to stay in Europe although from all the videos I've seen on him the past day and a half I can't see how we can not allow this kid on the floor. In my opinion Portlands 15 man Roster will look like this.
1)Brandon Roy
2)LaMarcus Aldridge
3)Greg Oden
4)Rudy Fernandez
5)Travis Outlaw
6)Joel Pryzbilla
7)Steve Blake
8)Jerryd Bayless
9)Sergio Rodriguez
10)Channing Frye
11)Martell Webster
12)Pettri Koponen
13)Raef Lafrentz
14)Ike Diago
15)Nicholas Batum
Spurs got Hill and they seems to be really happy with him.
The one who has been F up is Batum.
Instead of being in a team where he could have had playing time, he ends up with a team that wants to let him rot overseas while he wants to play in NBA. Given that he is a first round pick, they will sign him but he will spend the season in D-League or at the end of the bench.
Blazers strategy to use Allen deep pockets to get tons of talents is attractive on the paper but the team is now overcrowded and some quality young players will end up in the doghouse.
Portland has had talented teams before and let good players get away. Jermaine O'Neal was a Blazer initially.
I'm dating myself, but Portland had the rights to Moses Malone for about 2 seconds back in the mid 70s before shipping him to Houston.
Regarding the Hill Batum thing, deception is the root of all drafts. SA probably liked Hill and Batum and when Seatlle went the futures route at 24, SA knew they would get a player they wanted either way.
I don't know how they ranked the two, but they did seem to really like Hill. Batum seemed like a good propect as well.
Batum did not have huge numbers in the French A, but I also think he would have been a good potential SF for us. Plus he probably preferred playing with two of his countrymen in SA starting out.
Portland's GM seems to be obsessed with making moves just for the sake of making moves so people will mention his name on TV.
Houston sports gurus on radio and in papers are gushing over how slick the Houston move was, eg, passing over Greene (who they wanted badly) in order to pick him up later with a bonus of Joey Dorsey in a three team deal.
If they ed up the Spurs by taking Batum off the table, that was a bonus dig at a division rival.
I have to admit it was a gutsy call by a FO that read the moves of the teams behind them very craftily.
I thought it was interesting when Mike Monroe asked RC the night of the draft if there was celebration when the 25th pick was made (before the Spurs selection) and RC said "yeah, there was" with a smile on his face.
Last edited by Solid D; 06-28-2008 at 09:28 AM.
I think spurs fans and rockets fans should chill. Yours teams got what you wanted, so what's the big deal. except rockets got maybe what they wanted plus #33 this year and a high second rounder next year.
And had spurs gotten nicolas batum, they can trade it for:
george hill, cdr, and a second rounder next year.
that might be spurs plan, but houston did it. and that's that.
From the FO it seems the Spurs nailed their man. Batum looks like he's 16. Back to France for 2 years. By mid-season Hill will give Tony quality down time. Hairston and/or Gist will go to the D-league. I think we will give Big Shoot Rob one more year even if it's only to mentor Mahimni. Now that the fantasy of getting Mike Miller is gone we need to acquire a productive #2 so that Manu doesn't have to rush of the bench 3 minutes into the games. Is a JR Smith for Brent Barry II possible? They get Barry, who Karl can converse with, plus something and we get an athletic scorer. If Smith can't adjust to an adult locker room he can be dealt to those many teams who have adolescent locker rooms. Hill, Mahamni/Horry, Smith solve most of our needs. Anything else is gravy
This thread is a perfect example of Manny's old sig (which I believe was an Aggie Hoopsfan quip).
Too bad the Spurs couldnt draft Batum and Portland draft Hill.....
Then we could have sent Batum to Portland for Hill and Greene.....and that would have made me completely ecstatic....cause Greene was a player I really wanted the Spurs to draft. He was my second favorite SF in the draft, behind Joe Alexander (Beasley isn't included cause he was completely out of our reach).
However, I find Houston fans to be funny. They are all bent up over the Spurs. They feel the need to try and rub every little thing in our faces.....perhaps it is penis envy or something. Perhaps they are bitter cause their team hasn't done diddly squat in almost 15 years. Perhaps they are bitter cause the Spurs have owned them like a pimp owns his hoes ever since the 95 WCF. Perhaps they are bitter cause the Spurs have been the premiere organization in the NBA and potentially all the 4 major sports over the last 11 years, while the Rockets are just an afterthought. One superstar can't get out of the 1st round and the other can't stay healthy for a complete season. You guys were so y and arrogant after winning 22 in a row. No team has ever had such an impressive winning streak and failed to win the le, much less lose in the 1st round....except your mighty Rockets.
Thank you Rockets fans for coming over to the Spurs forum and showing us Spurs fans your hatred for our team. Thank you for coming onto our forum and showing us how much you envy the Spurs and wish your team was as good and successful as the Spurs.
Enjoy your offseason.....and then your next season of mediocrity....we have the 2009 OBrien to focus on.
GO SPURS GO
DX is pretty well under the assumption that Houston blew up San Antonio's plans. I sure as believe them above chowderheads around here. They, you know, actually talk to people in the business on an intimate and continual basis instead of clacking away with cheetoh stained fingers at their keyboards here. J. Givony has a wee bit more clout than blockheads like ASF.
you got owned in this thread. get over it. the spurs front office said they wanted Hill yet you somehow want to convince everyone else that wasn't the case.
Damn, Mr. Body is sensitive.
you mean the same guy (along with chad ford) that said the spurs had locked in on ryan anderson? so where does he fit into the batum/hill conversation?
Owned? No, there was no ownage. ASH came in swingin' his winsome little thinking a loud voice stands for evidence. The L'Equipe article is not the full story, pal, and that's pretty clear.
We're basically where we began: there is no proof what happened. My take is the Spurs sure as were going for Batum, wanting to get Hill later. Some other people's take is that they were 'smokescreening' Batum in order to get Hill, which makes little sense, as no one was taking Hill at that time anyway. This view doesn't explain the panicky 'what can you give us for the 26' email the team sent EVERYBODY, which I read as a way to brush expectations the opposite direction (which failed).
Look, the draft history is getting written. It's not getting written on this board, other than a sort of pathetic oral history of SpursTalk regulars. Otherwise it's getting written by guys who are close to the draft process continually, year after year. Whenever Batum is mentioned, if he does well, there will be a mention of how Portland helped snatch him from beneath the Spurs' noses. Part of this history is getting written right now by Givony and DX, which is getting linked to NBATV now. ASF? The other guys around here? Not so much. These guys think they're so much smarter than the ones talking to agents, talking to teams, talking to scouts, and know them on a personal basis, have their numbers in their cell phones. If you think I'm stupid or got 'OWNED' in a piddly thread like this, then apparently these scouts, agents, and teams are getting owned at the same time. I don't think so.
That's pretty much it. Go with ASH's sneer-faced Internet Tough Guy act. Or go with what people are actually writing about this who aren't blinkered.
one question. if the spurs plans were destroyed when battum was selected then why the celebration by the spurs front office after the rocket's pick? was that an act as well?
LinkHouston Rockets
Picks: Traded rights to Nicolas Batum (#19) to Portland for rights to Darrell Arthur (#27) and Joey Dorsey (#33); traded rights to Arthur to Memphis for rights to Donte Greene (#28) and 2009 second-round pick, Maarty Leunen (#54)
A
There isn’t much not to like here with what Houston did on draft night considering their limited resources. First, they busted up the plans of division rivals San Antonio Spurs by selecting Nicolas Batum (the player they had promised and tried to hide from the rest of the NBA). They likely did not win many fans over a few hours down I-10 with that move, but ended up coming away as winners by picking up Donte Greene, Joey Dorsey, and a 2009 second round pick out of that lone #25 pick. That’s what we call value…particularly Greene, who could have gone 15 spots higher had he not behaved poorly in a workout with the New Jersey Nets (something that reportedly spread quickly around the league). Morey likely loves Dorsey and Leunen’s numbers—their college production is impossible to argue with, even if it seems strange to add a 4th and 5th power forward to the mix now.
San Antonio Spurs
Picks: George Hill (#26); traded rights to Goran Dragic (#45) to Phoenix for rights to Malik Hairston (#48), a future second-round pick and cash considerations, James Gist (#57)
C+
San Antonio was very likely blindsided after being caught by the Rockets with their hand in the cookie jar trying to steal Nicolas Batum from the rest of the league, so much that they seem to have reached for George Hill, who they almost certainly could have had in the early second round. Hill’s numbers are off the charts and he did play extremely well at the Orlando pre-draft camp, but learning how to play the point guard position is not going to be the easiest task in the world for him.
In the second round, the Spurs took Phoenix to the cleaners simply for the price of moving up three spots in the draft. They landed the better player in the deal (Malik Hairston), picked up a future second round pick, and even managed to swindle some cash out of the Suns in the process. A very nice transaction all in all. Hairston has a great chance to make this team and may develop into a contributor down the road if he can improve his perimeter defense skills.
James Gist was someone that a number of teams seemingly had fairly high on their draft boards, but for some reason slipped all the way to the end of the second round. Nothing about his profile really jumps out at you, but he does have the athleticism to hang around for a little while.
My guess is there will be a selective fanboy/homer response to this. One: ' yah we beat dem dummassh Suns hooraayay!!'
Two: 'Man dish guy's an idiote no waay Goergj Hill numbah one foreveah!!'
You guys are so predictable.
if the spurs not wanted Batum so why Portlend make the deal with the Rockets?
i think that the Spurs wanted Batum and Portland knew that and they made the deal with the Rockets to still Batum from the Spurs.
i'm very disappointed because of it cause i wanted Batum on the Spurs.
Irony alert.
So the Rockets sole plan was the the spurs by drafting someone with the 25th pick of the nba draft. isn't batum a guy who could have been drafted by 20 or so other teams? so then the Rocket's also duped the Blazers as well? Or were the Blazers in on ing the spurs? Very difficult to follow the logic..
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