Is Shawne Williams wearing #4 for the Mavs?

[Allanon]

Well somewhere down the line that not paying luxury tax will help Cuban in not being as cheap with someone else. It's part of the thing. He ended up spending a lot on getting Kidd. Cuban having extra money just allows him to be more willing to spend money somewhere else. Common sense here. We know Cuban is willing to throw a lot of money out there if he feels really good about a deal. Maybe he was banking on Daniels being the starter. Avery Johnson screwed that part up. At this point of Finley's career, he was a liability on defense and a streaky shooter. I'm a little more pissed with Cuban for trading Harris. That was our future and the only thing to look forward with this team. Kidd was awesome in his day but now he relies totally on his eye sight. Teams will force him to shoot and pressure him on defense.

Looking back now, Devin Harris would never have been traded for Kidd because the Mavs would already have Nash.

Finley, although sucky at times, was still a major contributor...he did help the Spurs quite a bit in their ring quest in 2007.

You guys told me Damp was brought into Nash's salary slot so:

Nash wanted $9 million/season for the next 4 years (contract ends in 2008), Eric Dampier gets $10 million so essentially the Mavs traded Nash for Damp straight up, was this worth it?

[Findog]

Nash would have scored 20 with 10-15 assists, Tony would have gotten 25 points and 5 assists. I could have lived with that.

There's a reason the Suns can't get past the Spurs, and Nash being utterly unable to keep Parker in front of him is a big part of it. It creates matchup problems elsewhere when Marion has to take him fo rhim.

Xylus does have a point, Cuban's snub might have been the reason Nash became so good. But then again, maybe he wasn't ripe yet and needed more time with Dirk. Unfortunately we'll never know.

Nash ran the fast break in Phoenix with Marion and Amare. In Dallas, he would've continued to run the two-man game with Dirk.

I guess the question for you Mavs fans is this:
Given what you know now, do you think the Mavs should have kept Nash and in keeping Nash, should they have bitten the bullet and kept Finley too? So they wouldn't have Damp but they'd have Diop at Center along with Dirk, JHo, Bass, Devin, Stackhouse. Would that be a better team than they have now?

I think Nash is a bit overrated and the Mavs went as far as they possibly could with the Dirk, Nash and Finley teams. Phoenix with D'Antoni is a much better fit for his skills than Dallas ever was. It's irritating to hear it was a mistake to keep him because they went further without him than they did with him, and his salary slot was used to get a big, that for whatever his other faults, can at least body up other elite bigs. I'd rather Dampier guard Timmy or Yao than Shawn Bradley, which is the alternative if we hadn't traded for Damp.

[monosylab1k]

Looking back now, Devin Harris would never have been traded for Kidd because the Mavs would already have Nash.

He never would have been a Maverick because we wouldn't have traded Jamison for Harris/Stackhouse if we intended to keep Nash.

[Allanon]

There's a reason the Suns can't get past the Spurs, and Nash being utterly unable to keep Parker in front of him is a big part of it. It creates matchup problems elsewhere when Marion has to take him fo rim.

I think the Suns' problems all those years were because they were too tiny in the middle. I don't think their perimeter defense hurt them as much. And I think Amare's defense is much worse than Nash's. Big teams like the Spurs would just abuse the Suns inside.

Nash ran the fast break in Phoenix with Marion and Amare. In Dallas, he would've continued to run the two-man game with Dirk.

Is that a bad thing? Sorry I don't know, can't remember back that far how they played.

think Nash is a bit overrated and the Mavs went as far as they possibly could with the Dirk, Nash and Finley teams. Phoenix with D'Antoni is a much better fit for his skills than Dallas ever was. It's irritating to hear it was a mistake to keep him because they went further without him than they did with him, and his salary slot was used to get a big, that for whatever his other faults, can at least body up other elite bigs. I'd rather Dampier guard Timmy or Yao than Shawn Bradley, which is the alternative if we hadn't traded for Damp.

You have a point, Nash is a bit overrated even in his prime and Damp's still one of the better Centers. But I think they still would have been better off keeping Nash. In the Antwawn Jamison trade, they might have picked up a better big than Damp since they didn't need Devin Harris?

He never would have been a Maverick because we wouldn't have traded Jamison for Harris/Stackhouse if we intended to keep Nash.

The Mavs were looking to trade Jamison regardless weren't they? And I think it was because of his contract as well? If it weren't for Harris, it would have been for another good player.

[monosylab1k]

The Mavs were looking to trade Jamison regardless weren't they? And I think it was because of his contract as well? If it weren't for Harris, it would have been for another good player.

They only wanted to trade Jamison because it would have put them in position to draft a replacement for Nash. Jamison only wanted to be traded if he had to continue being sixth man. Antoine Walker was the only guy they felt they had to trade that offseason, but once Cuban decided he didn't want to keep Nash, they traded Jamison in order to move high enough in the draft to get Harris.

If they keep Nash they don't want Harris. And Jamison would have been made a starter.

[Findog]

Devin Harris was acquired before Nash signed with Phoenix. IIRC correctly Cuban wanted to keep Nash but not at the price Phoenix offered. Devin was insurance in case Nash left, his successor if he stayed.

[sribb43]

Devin Harris was acquired before Nash signed with Phoenix. IIRC correctly Cuban wanted to keep Nash but not at the price Phoenix offered. Devin was insurance in case Nash left, his successor if he stayed.

couldnt have said it better myself

[monosylab1k]

Devin Harris was acquired before Nash signed with Phoenix. IIRC correctly Cuban wanted to keep Nash but not at the price Phoenix offered. Devin was insurance in case Nash left, his successor if he stayed.

Cuban had all but made it clear that he didn't want to keep Nash before the draft. Trading for Harris just spelled it out for Steve.

There's a lot of revisionist history going on here, spun mostly by Mark himself. Harris was brought in to replace Nash immediately. Nash didn't sign with Phoenix yet but Cuban had made it clear they weren't going to give him the contract he wanted.

Remember at this point, Nellie & Cuban were on the outs already, and Avery had Mark's ear. The decision to let Steve go and work towards getting a more traditional lineup in place was set well before Nash finalized his deal with the Suns.

[BlackSwordsMan]

it's awesome seeing mavericks fans fight amongst themselves

[stretch]

it's awesome seeing mavericks fans fight amongst themselves

kinda reminds you of all the spurs fans that fight amongst themselves in this forum, eh?

[BlackSwordsMan]

kinda reminds you of all the spurs fans that fight amongst themselves in this forum, eh?

Only parker and manu fans

[stretch]

Only parker and manu fans

Still spurs fans arguing amongst themselves.

[JMarkJohns]

I won't argue that Nash on the Mavs would have equalled a le. Nor will I argue that Nash's inability to defend Parker adequately is not a big reason why the Suns have consistently struggled vs. the Spurs.

However, if the Suns system had emphasized defense a little more and they had a quality shot-blocking center, Parker may not drive to the rim as often and thus Nash would not have appeared quite so bad. It was certainly a combination of factors. Nash plays in mightily, but so to did the non-emphasis on defense within the system, and the lack of size and skill down low on defense.

Suns trade Marion for Camby and Mike Miller last year (which was actually rumored amongst those I know with ties to the Suns organization), then Nash, Bell, Miller, Amare and Camby with Barbosa, Hill, Diaw and Skinner off the bench and maybe Nash's defense isn't as big an issue.

Effin' Sarver axed this because of the salary it took on, but it worked financially, with maybe a filler or two, but neither was a big enough name to justify the added expense.

[sribb43]

I won't argue that Nash on the Mavs would have equalled a le. Nor will I argue that Nash's inability to defend Parker adequately is not a big reason why the Suns have consistently struggled vs. the Spurs.

However, if the Suns system had emphasized defense a little more and they had a quality shot-blocking center, Parker may not drive to the rim as often and thus Nash would not have appeared quite so bad. It was certainly a combination of factors. Nash plays in mightily, but so to did the non-emphasis on defense within the system, and the lack of size and skill down low on defense.

Suns trade Marion for Camby and Mike Miller last year (which was actually rumored amongst those I know with ties to the Suns organization), then Nash, Bell, Miller, Amare and Camby with Barbosa, Hill, Diaw and Skinner off the bench and maybe Nash's defense isn't as big an issue.

Effin' Sarver axed this because of the salary it took on, but it worked financially, with maybe a filler or two, but neither was a big enough name to justify the added expense.

Not possible since Mike Miller played for the Grizz unless it was in a 3-way deal

[JMarkJohns]

Not possible since Mike Miller played for the Grizz unless it was in a 3-way deal

It was. I don't remember the specifics, but Marion went to Memphis, then Swift and filler to Denver, then Camby and Miller to Phoenix. I am pretty sure the Suns included the Hawks pick to Denver.

This was pre-Gasol-to-LA as well.

[Obstructed_View]

it's awesome seeing mavericks fans fight amongst themselves

Do you ever post anything intelligent?

[Bruno]

Cutting Finley was a smart move. By doing that Cuban roughly saved $50M.

Even if the story with Finley hasn't ended well (waived + gone to Spurs), Finley has done a lot for the Mavs. IMO, he deserves to have his jersey retired and giving his number to Williams would be lame.

[Sissiborgo]

I'll hate Cuban forever if he gives somebody else Finley's number.

haha

[mavs>spurs2]

Greatest Mavs

1. Dirk
2. Finley
3. Aguirre
4. Rolando
5. Bradley
6. Harper
7. Nash
8. Kidd
9. JET
10. Perkins

I was with you up until this. Shawn Bradley might be the word professional basketball player of all time

[Flight3107]

haha

Great post.

[monosylab1k]

I was with you up until this. Shawn Bradley might be the word professional basketball player of all time

that was just on there as a joke. but really, come on, don't you have a soft spot in your heart for the Stormin' Mormon? He was so bad it was actually kind of an honor to have the worst basketball player to ever play in the NBA on our team. And really it's a testament to how good those teams were that they could make the playoffs in spite of him getting regular minutes.

The funniest thing is that in spite of how godawful he was, he still had tons of people saying "one day Shawn Bradley will be an All-Star" for the first 6 or 7 years of his career.

[JMarkJohns]

I don't know how I'd react to Bradley being my starting center, especially later in his career, but his prime stats are not bad. Over a 4/5 year stretch he averages around 12 ppg, 8 rpg, and 3 bpg.

I'll take those numbers from my center. Unfortunately he was as injury and poster prone as he was likely to make a positive impact. By the time Dallas was a contending team, his injuries had caught up with him and his production was way down.

[sribb43]

i guess we will find out shawne's number when he makes his debut tonight

[Obstructed_View]

I don't know how I'd react to Bradley being my starting center, especially later in his career, but his prime stats are not bad. Over a 4/5 year stretch he averages around 12 ppg, 8 rpg, and 3 bpg.

I'll take those numbers from my center. Unfortunately he was as injury and poster prone as he was likely to make a positive impact. By the time Dallas was a contending team, his injuries had caught up with him and his production was way down.

Yeah, the suggestion that he's a terrible player is just ignorant. He was perhaps the most overpaid player in Mavs history, which is really saying something. They signed him to one terrible contract and then, after he failed to live up to it, signed him to another one and wondered why he never played up to their expectations.

BTW, guys: shot blockers get dunked on. Sometimes spectacularly. Guys that duck away when they see someone going to the hole don't, but they don't average 3 blocks a game in the NBA, either.

[sribb43]

Looks like Shawne is wearing #4 tonight