Your Vote, Your Reasons

[CuckingFunt]

Senator Obama saying " We are no longer a Christian nation but a Christian, Muslim, and Jewish nation" concerns me.

Obama realistically addressing the religious make-up of our diverse country bothers you?

Well... to be honest, it bothers me a bit, too. He forgot Hindu.

The fact that people do compare Senator Obama to being a messiah and more so, that I have never heard of him saying, " There is no way I am the Messiah because Jesus is"- again giving credit where credit is due- concerns me as well.
If Senator Obama had said such a thing, my guess is it would have been all over the news.

Of course it would make the news. The headline would probably read "Illinois Senator Loses Election After Speech Giving Credence To Extremist Claims."

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Manny,

I just wrote a reply to you and lost the whole thing.

Let me try again. One second, please.

it's easy. simply reply "get off the race crap!!!"

[DarkReign]

That's more accurately referred to as conviction.

No, its called indoctrination.

Main Entry: in·doc·tri·nate
Pronunciation: \in-ˈdäk-trə-ˌnāt\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): in·doc·tri·nat·ed; in·doc·tri·nat·ing
Etymology: probably from Middle English endoctrinen, from Anglo-French endoctriner, from en- + doctrine doctrine
Date: 1626
1 : to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments : teach
2 : to imbue with a usually partisan or sectarian opinion, point of view, or principle
— in·doc·tri·na·tion \(ˌ)in-ˌdäk-trə-ˈnā-shən\ noun
— in·doc·tri·na·tor \in-ˈdäk-trə-ˌnā-tər\ noun

And again DR, your own acknowledgement of being ignorant and close-minded about Scripture precedes you, and having admitted that, you are certainly among the least qualified in this forum to express an opinion of substance regarding what is written therein.

Oh really, JJ? And in what capacity have you shown open-mindedness in any subject that objects to your worldview? You see, the difference between people like you and people like me, is that in our world there is more than enough room for you.

But in your world, I must accept Jesus to be considered equal in your moral eyes. Sure, you may respect certain portions of m existence, but there will always be that one caveat in the back of your mind that says "Ha, silly heathen. Forgive him, he knows not what he does" or some other condescending that youve somehow climbed the "moral ladder" a step or two higher by professing your soul to the Imaginary Man in the Sky.

So I will always be "less" than you in some way. That wouldnt bother me if you could just keep that to yourself, but no, you decided to jump in here and try telling me how dumb I am about scripture.

Do you know why? Because people like you cant make your ing mind about what it says in the first place! Is it all true or is it a metaphor? Tell me! If you say its true and real and that it actually happened as it is written, then I am ed. So are a lot of other people, unless of course on their deathbed they accept Jesus as their Lord an savior.

My convictions (see that?) about the Bible are moot in this conversation. Yes, I can pick one of the most popular passages in the Bible and present it as a representative tenant of Christianity.

Since I'll assume you havent read the thread, I'll use the same example I gave earlier.

The Bible is either wholly true and to be read as literal, or its an 800+ page metaphor. There is no middle ground on that issue.

So when I read "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." What does that mean?

If the Bible is literal, it means you dont get to meet your maker unless you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior as described in the Bible. No interpretation needed or expected, what is written is exactly what it means. No exceptions, no excuses, period. the Muslims, Hindus, Taoists, Buddhists, Aborigines and the those poor souls who had a bad luck streak being born in an African jungle who have never even heard of the Bible, much less Christ.

Thats a real "all-inclusive" religion you have there, if its meant to be taken literally and as truth (the Bible that is).

If its a metaphor, then someone had mentioned that what Jesus meant was, the path to God is through his teachings, not necessarily thru Him, per say.

I think thats an ultimate stretch of the interpretation of such a simple sentence, but I could accept that if the Bible isnt literal. That it shouldnt be used as empirical historical evidence, that some of the obvious divine miracles Jesus performed might not have actually happened like it says it did.

Its one or the other. Its literal or its a metaphor. Cant have both. Which is it, JJ, since you obviously know so much more about scripture than I do (seriously). Since youve spent a better part of your life studying/learning/adhering to the Bible, you tell me, is it all true or a giant metaphor?

Certainly in your lifetime of piousness you could surely answer such a simple question?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

it's easy. simply reply "get off the race crap!!!"

Manny,

First of all, you do realize I am half black, right?

even better

[Jekka]

As a Christian I am sad that the USA is not a Christian nation but saw no sign that Obama shared any of that concern.

It is my belief that one's faith in Jesus ought to determine one's politics not that politics should define faith.

Senator Obama is not the first (and unfortunately, likely won't be the last) to shy away when a microphone is put underneath his face.

So, you're afraid of a world with a single ins uted religion ... but you don't want politics to be without it. You shun the suggestion of any sort of racial/prejudicial influence ... and yet you are prejudiced against any religion other than your own.

Hypocrite much?

This makes no ing sense to me. And, I am extremely grateful that our forefathers had the good sense to make provisions for people with your line of thinking and made the church and state separate from the beginning.

[clambake]

As a Christian I am sad that the USA is not a Christian nation but saw no sign that Obama shared any of that concern.

It is my belief that one's faith in Jesus ought to determine one's politics not that politics should define faith.

Senator Obama is not the first (and unfortunately, likely won't be the last) to shy away when a microphone is put underneath his face.

holy . all of this attention has to be attributed to one bat crazy, deluded freak.

[angel_luv]

That's why you scare people.

I will never apologize for saying Jesus is the One and Only way.

I may suspect incorrectly about Obama being the anti- christ, but I am ONE HUNDRED percent, without a doubt, never changing my mind sure of who Jesus is.

[nkdlunch]

As a Christian I am sad that the USA is not a Christian nation but saw no sign that Obama shared any of that concern.

that is because he is not concerned. He as president would be speaking for millions of non-christians including Jews, Muslims, etc, etc.


you still have not answered what should be done about the millions of american citizens that are not christians but follow other religions that have nothing to do with Jesus.

Shouldn't their president still speak for them, represent them? or they have no rights?

[MaryAnnKilledGinger]

I have a problem with both Senator Obama and Senator McCain because neither of them have stood up and consistently said this election, " I am a Christian and this is how my Christianity is going to effect the way I run the country."

But...

Step one: all religions have equal rights

Well I want to elect a sold out Christian as my president and I am within my rights to vote or not vote along those standards.
For someone to attempt to regulate why or how I vote would undermine the whole process.

On a message board no one has the ability to regulate you or your votes, or to revoke any of your rights, voting or otherwise. Why bring this up?

How will Senator Obama undermine my faith? I tried to explain it above.
Senator Obama saying " We are no longer a Christian nation but a Christian, Muslim, and Jewish nation" concerns me.

If I'm understanding, the basis of this concern is because you feel Obama could force all Americans to forsake their individual religions and be forced to worship under a single religion that is not your brand of Christianity. You honestly see this as a possibility, just as yesterday you saw it as a possibility that Obama could be the AC? And you believe this based on...your gut feeling?

The fact that people do compare Senator Obama to being a messiah and more so, that I have never heard of him saying, " There is no way I am the Messiah because Jesus is"- again giving credit where credit is due- concerns me as well.

...
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/...0.html?start=2

"I am a Christian, and I am a devout Christian. I believe in the redemptive death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe that that faith gives me a path to be cleansed of sin and have eternal life. But most importantly, I believe in the example that Jesus set by feeding the hungry and healing the sick and always prioritizing the least of these over the powerful. I didn't 'fall out in church' as they say, but there was a very strong awakening in me of the importance of these issues in my life. I didn't want to walk alone on this journey. Accepting Jesus Christ in my life has been a powerful guide for my conduct and my values and my ideals."

I'm not sure how much clearer that could be.

[JoeChalupa]

Second best newbie poster ever.

[Shastafarian]

I will never apologize for saying Jesus is the One and Only way.

I may suspect incorrectly about Obama being the anti- christ, but I am ONE HUNDRED percent, without a doubt, never changing my mind sure of who Jesus is.

That's fine (kinda) but saying that you don't like people because they want to bring religions together in peace is ing insane. I find it hard to believe you can be 100% sure of anything. , I'm not 100% sure I'm not adopted. Maybe you could say this if you've been dead for several minutes and saw Jesus. But I doubt that's the case. I suspect you've been taught that you are 100% sure. Am I right?

[DWest30]

Manny,


I have a problem with both Senator Obama and Senator McCain because neither of them have stood up and consistently said this election, " I am a Christian and this is how my Christianity is going to effect the way I run the country."

Thats because no one can be popularly elected saying such a thing. And rightly so, I might add.

You and others have compared the election process to a job interview.
Well I want to elect a sold out Christian as my president and I am within my rights to vote or not vote along those standards.
For someone to attempt to regulate why or how I vote would undermine the whole process.

No one is attempting to say youre wrong for your vote. They are trying to make you a more informed voter. Voting based on the religion of the candidate is not substantially more solid of a reason than voting onwhat shows they wear. It has no bearing on whether they can do their Cons utionally appointed duties.

McCain may not stand up for my faith the way I wish he would. But of the two candidates, I think he is least likely to undermine my faith.
How will Senator Obama undermine my faith? I tried to explain it above.
Senator Obama saying " We are no longer a Christian nation but a Christian, Muslim, and Jewish nation" concerns me.

OK, in reading your posts and responding (youve never engaged my arguments with you, I might add), you have never said directly that the United States should and must be a christian nation. Why not? It clearly is your belief.
The fact that people do compare Senator Obama to being a messiah and more so, that I have never heard of him saying, " There is no way I am the Messiah because Jesus is"- again giving credit where credit is due- concerns me as well.

Ive never heard John McCain say "I'm not Herman Munster" either even though I call him that daily. Politicians dont respond to species arguments because they have no value.

If Senator Obama had said such a thing, my guess is it would have been all over the news.

And anyone who supports the 1st Amendment of the US Cons ution would have immediately disqualified him for the Presidency.

Since I watch the news and have not heard it, I am assuming no such comment has been made.
If I am wrong, correct me.

Am submitting this before I lose it again.

In bold above.

[SpursFanFirst]

Angel food cake?



or

Obama's food cake?



Discuss.



Obama's food cake black by accident? I think we all know the answer.

[MannyIsGod]

Manny,

First of all, you do realize I am half black, right?

If TD Jakes, or any candidate with his strong Christian convictions, were to run for president, while sticking to those convictions, I would vote for him in a heartbeat.

If said candidate were green, I would vote for him.

I have a problem with both Senator Obama and Senator McCain because neither of them have stood up and consistently said this election, " I am a Christian and this is how my Christianity is going to effect the way I run the country."

My beliefs may not always be popular or even respected but I am always consistent and emphatic in my statements about my beliefs.
As such I have no qualms in seeking the same in the men asking me to elect them president.

You and others have compared the election process to a job interview.
Well I want to elect a sold out Christian as my president and I am within my rights to vote or not vote along those standards.
For someone to attempt to regulate why or how I vote would undermine the whole process.

Unfortunately for me, neither Senator has impressed me. I wish there was a third party candidate with a viable chance of being elected that I could consider voting for.

But since there is not, I have to go with the lesser of two evils, so to speak.

McCain may not stand up for my faith the way I wish he would. But of the two candidates, I think he is least likely to undermine my faith.
How will Senator Obama undermine my faith? I tried to explain it above.
Senator Obama saying " We are no longer a Christian nation but a Christian, Muslim, and Jewish nation" concerns me.
The fact that people do compare Senator Obama to being a messiah and more so, that I have never heard of him saying, " There is no way I am the Messiah because Jesus is"- again giving credit where credit is due- concerns me as well.
If Senator Obama had said such a thing, my guess is it would have been all over the news.
Since I watch the news and have not heard it, I am assuming no such comment has been made.
If I am wrong, correct me.

Am submitting this before I lose it again.

Being half black in no way would make you impermeable to societies views and the associations derived from those views. While it would be less likely had you been raised (and I'm assuming from what little I know about your background this is not the case) in an environment filled with African American men who didn't fit the stereotype portrayed by society today because then you would have a completely different association to work with.

While you have no given more reasoning behind your thought process, you have yet to explain why you feel McCain would be less likely to undercut your core beliefs? I could easily see a case being made for Obama being by far the more Christian candidate considering the pasts of both men and the policies they believe in. In fact, outside of abortion and gay marriage I would have extreme difficulty in finding a single McCain stance that would comply with Christian beliefs.

Now that being said, I have serious problems with the content in your post simply because the thought process behind your post is a thought process that has show itself many times in history almost always with disastrous results. The choice to use government as a tool of the church has enabled many of the worst events of modern history and I believe this to be a major reason to avoid what you seek to implement. I respect your honesty but I hope you keep an open mind to the lessons of history and whether or not God would need the government of man to carry out his wishes or even lay out a framework for how we live.

Personally, when exploring my Christianity I always felt as I was given a free will and it was never God's wish for me to deny others that free will through the use of government. I never gathered through any of my Catholic teachings that it was my duty to prevent sin through the use of force.

[RandomGuy]

... seriously?

I don't even know how to argue this because I can't, on any level, relate to the thought process that inspired it.

The problem is that crazy people have been allowed to define what it means to be "Christian".

Most good Christians don't know this, but kinda go along, because it is emotionally appealing groupthink.

Not that Angel is one of those crazy people, but people like her have their opinions shaped as to what it means to be a Christian or what one must believe in order to be a "good" Christian, by people who are just a little not-sane.

I am not saying faith=not sane. There are plenty of sane faithful people.

I am saying that extreme fundamentalists are at least a little unsane. They read what they read, and come to truly bizarre conclusions about what their faith is, and what is required to be a "good" Christian.

Nobody who follow's Christ's teachings wants to think that they aren't a "good" Christian, and the crazy people pointing to X or Y and saying "that is unChristian" or "You have to believe Y to be a good Christian" cause a lot of good people to start wondering if the crazies aren't right about that. So they kinda go along with it.

It is the same with any ideology. Often the most radical elements are the ones that seem to drive it.

[spurster]

So many threads in a thread, so here are some random comments

Those who believe Biblical inerrancy give Christianity a bad name. The writers of the Bible were not trained scientists, historians, or journalists. Treating them that way is foolish. God gave us brains to think, not to be blind followers.

If human life starts at conception, are human eggs and sperm half-human? In the future, if cloning can take one of my cells and create another human being, then does that make every cell death a human death?

Anyone who believes lies such as Obama is the AntiChrist needs help. Elections result in all sorts of lies to create fear, uncertainty, and doubt (and because of fear, uncertainty, and doubt), but this is way over the top. www.snopes.com and www.factcheck.com should be regularly consulted.

[Tully365]

Senator Obama saying " We are no longer a Christian nation but a Christian, Muslim, and Jewish nation" concerns me.

The fact that people do compare Senator Obama to being a messiah and more so, that I have never heard of him saying, " There is no way I am the Messiah because Jesus is"- again giving credit where credit is due- concerns me as well.
.

The first statement is not an opinion, angel_luv, it's simply a comment about the population of our country. There are, in fact, Jewish people, Muslims, Hindus, etc., living in this country, so to express the objective thought that we are a country composed of different religions is not even an opinion with which anyone can disagree. It's like saying there are many rivers and different types of trees in the United States-- a completely true statement.

On the second comment: I think you are wrong to judge Obama based on what others-- many of whom are ridiculing him, not supporting him-- say about him as a person. For him to stand up on a stage and say, "hey I just want to let everybody know that I am in fact not the Messiah" would only make his enemies more angry, and make them write articles saying Can you believe this guy had the nerve to condescend to us and even mention his own name in the same breath with the word messiah?!?! You wanting Obama to publicly address the question of whether he is the messiah or the anti-christ (what a huge scope he has to answer for!) would be the equivalent of George Bush giving twenty minutes of serious discussion during a press conference to answer a question from a democratic partisan who calmly asks if it is true--as many have claimed-- that he has the smallest intellect of any president in history.

[AntiChrist]

This thread is all about me, so that's all that really matters.


Keep up the good work, my children. You know what they say, "idle hands are Obama's workshop".

[JoeChalupa]

This not the United Christian States...but THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA!! We are ALL Americans be us white, black, brown, yellow, red, republican, democrat, independent, green, Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Jewish, non-denomination, male or female. THAT is what America is all about and if we pull together we can accomplish great things and the time is now. YES WE CAN!!!!!

[Slomo]

even better

I don't get it.

Being black (or some % of it) automatically means you are not racist?

Do you know what the word racist means?

[RandomGuy]

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 172 (23 members and 149 guests)

wows.

[BacktoBasics]

News flash Angel Luv:

Running this country isn't about religion its about putting that very thing aside and doing whats best for the people who reside here. This is where religion has warped your ability to rationally think. THIS ELECTION ISN'T ABOUT RELIGION.

What would stop you from voting for a guy who is hardcore clean as a whistler god warrior who intends to impose a 90% wage tax across the board?

Delegating responsibility and balancing a checkbook aren't based in ones religion.

When you buy something you want to buy something that performs well and is reliable. Purchasing your computer, car or appliances shouldn't have anything to do with religion.

Its like saying I choose the white washing machine over the clearly larger more effective higher quality cheaper black one because black represents bad and white seems more god like. I have no proof though.

[MannyIsGod]

Angel I guess my point is that government can no more make a believer out of an unbeliever than any other form of coercion so I'm not sure what the value in oppressing the beliefs of others would be in our country?

I also wonder if you can think of any of our nations leaders - political in nature - that have met the standards you are currently setting for our 2 presidential candidates?

[Shastafarian]

I'm not sure why you guys are trying to argue with her about the separation of church and state. She already said she'd vote for a religious person without hesitation. No matter what kind of leader they were or what policies they had, she'd vote for him/her. She wants a Theocracy.

[Shelly]

I look at it this way...

I'm not a religious person and don't care what one believes in. However, I'm not a bad person either. I don't murder people, I don't beat my kids, stea, kick puppiesl, or cheat on my taxes. I do everything a moral person should do except worship someone that existed a looooooooooooong time ago.

Since that doesn't make me one of the 'cool' kids and if it gets me turned away from this cool club called Heaven, then that's a club I don't want to belong to.

I would like to think that Jesus can see the good in all of us whether we worship him or not.