AVERY JOHNSON Relieved to be fired

[dude1394]

If Cuban wants to make all the decisions and coach the team let him!---That's worked pretty well for Jerry Jones.

Now how many championships has Jerry Jones won?

[Biernutz]

In his mind he was the reason they won them.

[monosylab1k]

That decision costs them the le more than any coaching decisions made by AJ.

before he even had the head coaching job, AJ was in Cuban's ear telling him to dump Nash and get a traditional big man, a la Erick Dampier.

[monosylab1k]

I just want every Avery knobslobber to tell me one thing - if he's so beloved by the Spurs, why doesn't he have an assistant coach gig by now?

Here's the stock response from you guys: "He'd rather just sit on his ass and take Cuban's money! Hahahahahah suck on that Mav fan!"

Now that we've got the stock response out of the way, give me a REAL reason why Pop hasn't hired Avery yet.....you know, since Tim Duncan loves Avery so much and all.

[monosylab1k]

This was a nice little quote from db.com

1. Avery takes a job in Bristol. Because he wants to spend some more time with his family. Which lives in Houston.

[SenorSpur]

Avery's strengths were game preparation, attention to detail and motivation. His weaknesses were making in-game adjustments, taking input for assistant coaches and his stubborn belief in his system. Thereby, rendering him and his strategy predictable. He is such a micro-manager that he was the only coach in the NBA who tried to coach every single possession of every game. His shelf-life was up.

[Findog]

And for Avery to spin that Kidd deal as him being against the idea is a complete bold faced lie. From a so-called man of God, no less.

Are you calling Avery a Republican?

[Obstructed_View]

I just want every Avery knobslobber to tell me one thing - if he's so beloved by the Spurs, why doesn't he have an assistant coach gig by now?

Here's the stock response from you guys: "He'd rather just sit on his ass and take Cuban's money! Hahahahahah suck on that Mav fan!"

Wanna know why it's the stock reason? Because it is the reason. It's not like AJ wasn't around the Spurs organization before the season started. There was talk that Pop wanted to hire him, but the big stumbling block is that he'd have to forefeit the money from Cuban. What part of that is so impossible to understand?

Spurs players probably wouldn't get angry at AJ if he were a coach, because they already work hard and play defense, and if someone tried to go over his head and blubber to the owner, they'd get their asses handed to them.

[timvp]

The 06 Mavs team was the most well-rounded team. They had Dampier and Diop to clog the middle on defense while they had some offensive slashers and outside shooters.

The 06 Mavs were the best Mavs team because they played precision offense and stellar defense. Neither trait was a result of Nellie ball and both can be directly attributed to AJ.

It's no surprise the Mavericks made a deeper than usual playoff run when they had a few bigs that didn't end up on posters every night.

So the Mavs made a bigger push in the playoffs because they traded Nash for Dampier. Not because they actually started playing a brand of basketball that is made for the playoffs instead of the gimmick years of 2001 thru 2005.

They might have had a bit more talent, but they weren't a better team. They got by using a zone defense most of the year.

Zone is part of Nellie ball. AJ took away gimmicks that Nellie used, which you credit simply as become a "team" or whatever.

In what world is winning 58 games and losing to the first SSOL Suns team "not very good?" Oh right, Avery took over the Bad News Bears and coached them up to overachieve.

In the world of championship basketball.

They played defense, had great chemistry and featured Dirk at his apex. Avery got them to buy into his concept and they rode it all the way to the Finals. Why did the Mavs lose in the Finals? Dirk was inconsistent in that series, putting up three very good games and three mediocre ones, while Avery's buttcheeks tightened up and he altered the game plan. They ran on the Spurs and won. They slowed it down versus Phoenix and own. They should've run on Miami and if they had, there wouldn't have been anything Dwyane Wade could've done to prevent the Mavs from hoisting the LOB. But Avery clenched up.

Harris and Terry were the ones who clenched. Harris finally came back down to earth and played like Devin Harris instead of Kevin Johnson like he did against the Spurs. AJ deserves some blame but this postmortem quarterbacking to give AJ most of the blame is quite humorous.

The 06 team would beat the 03 and 04 teams in a playoff series. Avery deserves a lot of credit for the 06 team going as far as it did but so did Dirk.

Never said Dirk shouldn't get credit. But AJ coached his azz off during the playoff run. Outside of Phil Jackson, I've never seen Pop as thoroughly outcoached as he was in that series.

I don't presume to know more about the Spurs than you or timvp. You guys sure as don't know more about the Mavs than I do.

I've followed AJ for damn near 20 years. I know how his coaches ... considering he was the de facto coach from about 1994 to 2001 in San Antonio. I know how he basketball mind works. If you want to dismiss what I say, that's fine. I don't really care.

Wow I didn't realize timvp was that big of an Avery knobslobber.

You must be new to the internet.

Seriously, I'll always be a fan of AJ. He gave the Spurs the toughness and the single-mindedness to become a championship team. He was a huge part of creating the culture on the court and off the court that the Spurs have used to get to where they are.

I was a fan of AJ even when he went to Dallas and Spurs fans turned their back on him. I said he'd be a great head coach and judging by him being the all-time leader in winning percentage, I think it's safe to say his coaching career is off to a good start.

And Avery absolutely lobbied for the Kidd deal. He gave up on Devin Harris about a month into the season, anybody who actually watches the Mavericks and follows them knows that. It's hilarious to see Spurs fans who follow the Spurs acting like they know more about the Mavericks than the fans who actually follow the Mavericks. And for Avery to spin that Kidd deal as him being against the idea is a complete bold faced lie. From a so-called man of God, no less.

AJ did give up on Harris, that I agree with. AJ never forgave Harris for clenching during the Heat and Warriors series.

But there's no way in AJ would have been for the Kidd trade. You are talking about the most anal retentive coach in the league who loves running a structured offense. There is no way he wanted to bring in Kidd who is basically the exact opposite of that. AJ would never want to give up the reigns on the offense and give it to a freestyler like Kidd. I'm sure he smiled in front of the cameras and told how much he wanted the trade but if you know how stubborn AJ about his offense sets, you'd know he would totally be against getting Kidd. I'm sure you'll believe Cuban and the Dallas media and place the blame on AJ for that trade but I'm 100% positive that is BS. The day Kidd got traded to the Mavs was the day AJ got fired. I mean, AJ showed how much he wanted Kidd by benching his azz shortly after the trade

x 10000000000000000000000000000000000000

It's even funnier how Spurs fans didn't acknowledge this post because they know it's true.

I've always been an AJ knobslobber.

No .

before he even had the head coaching job, AJ was in Cuban's ear telling him to dump Nash and get a traditional big man, a la Erick Dampier.

Was AJ also on the grassy knoll?

I just want every Avery knobslobber to tell me one thing - if he's so beloved by the Spurs, why doesn't he have an assistant coach gig by now?

Here's the stock response from you guys: "He'd rather just sit on his ass and take Cuban's money! Hahahahahah suck on that Mav fan!"

Now that we've got the stock response out of the way, give me a REAL reason why Pop hasn't hired Avery yet.....you know, since Tim Duncan loves Avery so much and all.

Plenty of reasons. First of all, the money is undeniable. If you either could make $4M and do whatever you wanted or lose $4M and work, what would you do? Dismissing that as a reason is pretty damn funny.

Secondly, the Spurs already have a lead assistant coach and another coach waiting in the wings to become the lead assistant. Bringing in AJ to trump those two coaches isn't something Pop would do, especially considering the lead assistant spent 16 years in the organization before moving up to where he is.

And besides, did you see the news of AJ helping out during training camp? If Pop and Duncan hated him so much, why was he there? And in 2003 when the Spurs were about to face the Lakers, who did Duncan consult with to go over strategy? One Avery Johnson.

This was a nice little quote from db.com

Does db.com know that airplanes have been invented? WTF?

@ comparing coaching and being a talking head for a few hours a week. Dallas is amazing. I've never city so great at trashing fallen sports stars.

[Obstructed_View]

Never said Dirk shouldn't get credit. But AJ coached his azz off during the playoff run. Outside of Phil Jackson, I've never seen Pop as thoroughly outcoached as he was in that series.

Quoted for truth.

[monosylab1k]

You must be new to the internet.

i knew you were an Avery knobslobber (no ) but not to this extent.

I appreciate the things Avery did, and I hate how things ended for him in Dallas. I really do. And I think if Avery can keep the intensity and motivation while losing the Gestapo behavior, he'll win a le as a head coach, probably more than one.

But the one big hangup I have is the Kidd trade. I'm sorry but every single report in Dallas early in the season was that Avery had given up on Devin and demanded that Mark get him a point guard with a clue to run the team. I think if you look back even here at SpursTalk you'll see that most Mavs fans believed Avery was the loudest voice that demanded a smarter PG.

For Avery to then turn things around and say bull like "I was a father to Devin, I turned him into a 17/10 point guard (*both stats being complete lies as well), and I never wanted the Kidd trade" is sickening. It is 100% a lie and he knows it.

[monosylab1k]

Wanna know why it's the stock reason? Because it is the reason.

It's not. It's the convenient excuse.

If Avery was so beloved, why didn't he get any serious consideration for one of the vacant head coaching jobs? Why didn't one of his former teammates, Steve Kerr, not even give him so much as a courtesy call in regard to the Suns open HC gig?

Did Avery send a memo to every GM in the league that said "Hey fellas, I know every one of you wants to break down my door and take me away to coach your team, but don't bother even calling me. I'm gonna sit on my ass and take Mark Cuban's money! Hahahahaha!"

[monosylab1k]

And for the record, in my case this is not just some desperate "throw Avery under the bus after everything blew up". I know Mark Cuban has done that, and I think it's stupid and childish for him to behave like that (although what does Mark do that isn't stupid and childish?).

I think most Mavs fans here can vouch for that fact that I've been very critical of Avery for quite some time before this season, and that I wanted him fired a year before he actually got fired. I even made the ridiculous assertion a year ago that Scott Skiles was a better coach.

[ElNono]

And for the record, in my case this is not just some desperate "throw Avery under the bus after everything blew up". I know Mark Cuban has done that, and I think it's stupid and childish for him to behave like that (although what does Mark do that isn't stupid and childish?).

I think most Mavs fans here can vouch for that fact that I've been very critical of Avery for quite some time before this season, and that I wanted him fired a year before he actually got fired. I even made the ridiculous assertion a year ago that Scott Skiles was a better coach.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

[Obstructed_View]

It's not. It's the convenient excuse.

If Avery was so beloved, why didn't he get any serious consideration for one of the vacant head coaching jobs? Why didn't one of his former teammates, Steve Kerr, not even give him so much as a courtesy call in regard to the Suns open HC gig?

I'm sorry, but how exactly do you know that he didn't? You make these statements that sound like you were sitting in the room when things happened. You know less than the writers do who said that AJ was a candidate for the Knicks, the Suns, the Bulls and the Pistons job. Many of them wrote that he was a longshot because he was still getting paid by Mark Cuban and was likely to take an analyst job with one of the networks.

Considering you're le already says "Fire Carlisle", the fact that you were one of the first to call for AJ's head doesn't make you smart, at best it means you know the team and the town. I predicted in this forum that things would go bad between Cuban and AJ and he'd get the blame for every bad decision the team made.

[Findog]

I've followed AJ for damn near 20 years. I know how his coaches ... considering he was the de facto coach from about 1994 to 2001 in San Antonio. I know how he basketball mind works. If you want to dismiss what I say, that's fine. I don't really care.

I'm not discounting what you have to say, I'm only judging Avery based on his tenure in Dallas. He's a good coach, and he deserves a large portion of credit for what the team accomplished here. At the same time, there's a reason he's no longer the coach.

I don't think it's an either/or proposition. We're going to find out this season that some of the things that led to a failure to meet expectations last year were indeed Avery's fault...and some other things are not.

As for his role in the Kidd trade, all of the beat writers covering the team, and most people plugged in, agree that Avery gave up on Harris early in the year and began demanding Cuban acquire a veteran PG. The consensus is that he was fully on board with the Kidd trade, and then developed reservations once it publicly fell apart, and his enthusiasm was muted once the talks were revived and the trade ultimately went through.

What is false is when Avery claimed that he was totally 100% against the Kidd trade, and that he regarded Harris as some sort of surrogate son. He was begging Cuban to take Devin off his hands.

[monosylab1k]

I'm sorry, but how exactly do you know that he didn't? You make these statements that sound like you were sitting in the room when things happened. You know less than the writers do who said that AJ was a candidate for the Knicks, the Suns, the Bulls and the Pistons job. Many of them wrote that he was a longshot because he was still getting paid by Mark Cuban and was likely to take an analyst job with one of the networks.

Considering you're le already says "Fire Carlisle", the fact that you were one of the first to call for AJ's head doesn't make you smart, at best it means you know the team and the town. I predicted in this forum that things would go bad between Cuban and AJ and he'd get the blame for every bad decision the team made.

Ummmmm there was an article saying that Kerr didn't bother looking into hiring Avery. Posted right here on SpursTalk if you want to look it up. I guess if you paid attention you'd have read it.

And I missed the part where les were some ultimate truth, and not to be used for humorous purposes. I guess I'm an Oklahoma City Thunder fan too, just because it says so.

[Obstructed_View]

Ummmmm there was an article saying that Kerr didn't bother looking into hiring Avery. Posted right here on SpursTalk if you want to look it up. I guess if you paid attention you'd have read it.

No, I remember it. Buck Harvey wrote it, so it wasn't exactly a "news article". It was about how Kerr hates AJ because he kicked a chair once. The article also said that AJ would make more money by not taking the Suns job than he would if he took it; one of the few actual facts in the piece.

Actually, if Steve Kerr hates AJ personally then whether or not he did a good job with the Mavericks was never an issue, and you answered your own question from a few posts back. If what Buck says is true, then AJ could have won three les in a row and Kerr wasn't going to hire him.

[monosylab1k]

No, I remember it. Buck Harvey wrote it, so it wasn't exactly a "news article". It was about how Kerr hates AJ because he kicked a chair once. The article also said that AJ would make more money by not taking the Suns job than he would if he took it; one of the few actual facts in the piece.

Actually, if Steve Kerr hates AJ personally then whether or not he did a good job with the Mavericks was never an issue, and you answered your own question from a few posts back. If what Buck says is true, then AJ could have won three les in a row and Kerr wasn't going to hire him.

this knobslobbing is wonderful. if anything, that article would dispel the "Avery is the most beloved human being to ever live" myth that his knobslobbers throw out there. Although I'm sure they'll still insist that Tim Duncan gushes over Avery and wants to have his babies.

[AC#21_TD ERA]

Let me put this into perspective for you Mavs fans. Avery was the best chance you had of winning a championship. His record speaks for itself. Avery knew what win’s championships and he tried to implement that style into the Mavs but he had the wrong cattle. Dallas was more of a threat to win it with Avery than without. Now that Avery is gone your championship window is closed.

You can bring Carlisle, give the floor to the washed up Jason Kidd and play that regular season style Basketball all you want. But when it comes to the post season and it turns into a half court game you need to have the mental toughness to grind it out, defend and get stops.

That’s what Avery tried to bring in but he had a so called franchise player in Dirk that was letting him down, Dirk can’t take the game by the scruff of the neck, Dirk is too soft to make the Mavs a fierce defensive team. He isn’t the player to build around unless you want to win the regular season.

We all know what win’s championships but obviously Dirk and the Mavs don’t. The Mavs got rid of the wrong guy and as a Spurs fan I love it because you’re no longer a threat. When you continuously fall short in the post season you’ll eventually realize that Avery wasn’t the problem it was Dirk and Cuban. You don’t’ know what you’ve got until it’s gone.

[dirk4mvp]

Let me put this into perspective for you Mavs fans. Avery was the best chance you had of winning a championship. His record speaks for itself. Avery knew what win’s championships and he tried to implement that style into the Mavs but he had the wrong cattle. Dallas was more of a threat to win it with Avery than without. Now that Avery is gone your championship window is closed.

You can bring Carlisle, give the floor to the washed up Jason Kidd and play that regular season style Basketball all you want. But when it comes to the post season and it turns into a half court game you need to have the mental toughness to grind it out, defend and get stops.

That’s what Avery tried to bring in but he had a so called franchise player in Dirk that was letting him down, Dirk can’t take the game by the scruff of the neck, Dirk is too soft to make the Mavs a fierce defensive team. He isn’t the player to build around unless you want to win the regular season.

We all know what win’s championships but obviously Dirk and the Mavs don’t. The Mavs got rid of the wrong guy and as a Spurs fan I love it because you’re no longer a threat. When you continuously fall short in the post season you’ll eventually realize that Avery wasn’t the problem it was Dirk and Cuban. You don’t’ know what you’ve got until it’s gone.

More defense for Saint Avery! You obviously don't have a clue about what you're babbling about.

[Obstructed_View]

this knobslobbing is wonderful. if anything, that article would dispel the "Avery is the most beloved human being to ever live" myth that his knobslobbers throw out there. Although I'm sure they'll still insist that Tim Duncan gushes over Avery and wants to have his babies.

I'm certainly not surprised that, when faced with facts, your only response is to dream up something that nobody actually said and ridicule it. I'm not any more of an AJ slobber than you are a Cuban slobber. Suggesting that AJ's a crap coach because Steve Kerr didn't hire him is kind of stupid if it's true that Kerr hated AJ when they played together.

[MavDynasty]

Let me put this into perspective for you Mavs fans. Avery was the best chance you had of winning a championship. His record speaks for itself. Avery knew what win’s championships and he tried to implement that style into the Mavs but he had the wrong cattle. Dallas was more of a threat to win it with Avery than without. Now that Avery is gone your championship window is closed.

You can bring Carlisle, give the floor to the washed up Jason Kidd and play that regular season style Basketball all you want. But when it comes to the post season and it turns into a half court game you need to have the mental toughness to grind it out, defend and get stops.

That’s what Avery tried to bring in but he had a so called franchise player in Dirk that was letting him down, Dirk can’t take the game by the scruff of the neck, Dirk is too soft to make the Mavs a fierce defensive team. He isn’t the player to build around unless you want to win the regular season.

We all know what win’s championships but obviously Dirk and the Mavs don’t. The Mavs got rid of the wrong guy and as a Spurs fan I love it because you’re no longer a threat. When you continuously fall short in the post season you’ll eventually realize that Avery wasn’t the problem it was Dirk and Cuban. You don’t’ know what you’ve got until it’s gone.

dumbass plz dont talk ever again.

[MavDynasty]

Damn timvp,you kick ass!

[AC#21_TD ERA]

dumbass plz dont talk ever again.

More defense for Saint Avery! You obviously don't have a clue about what you're babbling about.

GO AND WIN THE REGULAR SEASON AGAIN. YOUR WINDOW IS CLOSED. YOU SHOULD OF LISTENED TO AVERY AND TRADED DIRK FOR GARNETT WHEN YOU HAD THE CHANCE. K.G WOULD OF BRANG IN A DEFENSIVE CULTURE THAT HAS THE ABILITY TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP.