I hope pacquiao puts him in a coma. Well not really but I hope he kicks the out of him.
what a joke of a fight.
I don't understand how ppl are gona pay to see this. Obviously all de la hoya wants is some $$. he does not give a if he wins or loses.
Oscar is big for Manny and he is still a great boxer, he can win that fight, if he fights the smart fight..
I was a De La Hoya fan a few years back but dude is going to get his ass handed to him.
Manny is a badass mofo.
I am also looking forward to Ricky Hatton beating the out of Paulie Malinaggi. I hate that punk.
He will not get his ass handed to him. He has 4 inches in height, 6 inches of reach and even at this stage of his career is the best fighter Manny has ever fought.. Oscar can win this fight, no doubt about it..
Oscar is the most overrated fighter outside of Kimbo Slice. He's never won the big fights. He's always taken guys on the down side of their career. He beat an aging but still good Mosley so I'll give him that. Vargas is and always was overrated too. I don't consider it a big win. Javier Castillejo I consider a decent win but nothing huge. Quartey and Whitaker were very solid wins.
So basically this guy has two legit big wins and a decent win against an older Mosley and a second decent win against Castillejo. He lost every huge bout with guys in their prime. Mayweather, Hopkins (he was old too), Mosely once, Trinadad.
He really hasn't had that many big fights. Great marketing plan though.
I really don't see what this guy has done. He got popular off of beating guys who were finished thats it.
2008-05-03 Steve Forbes Los Angeles, CA De La Hoya W12 NOBODY
2007-05-05 Floyd Mayweather Las Vegas, NV Mayweather W 12
2006-05-06 Ricardo Mayorga Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya TKO 6 BIG DEAL
2004-09-18 Bernard Hopkins Las Vegas, NV Hopkins KO 9
2004-06-05 Felix Sturm Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya W12 NOBODY
2003-09-13 Shane Mosley Las Vegas, NV Mosley W12 DECENT WIN
2003-05-03 Luis Ramon Campas Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya TKO7 NOBODY
2002-09-14 Fernando Vargas Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya TKO 11 NOBODY
2001-06-23 Javier Castillejo Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya W12 DECENT WIN
2001-03-24 Arturo Gatti Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya TKO 5 GATTI WAS DONE
2000-06-17 Shane Mosley Los Angeles, CA Mosley W12
2000-02-26 Derrell Coley New York, NY De La Hoya KO 7 NOBODY
1999-09-18 Felix Trinidad Las Vegas, NV Trinidad W12
1999-05-22 Oba Carr Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya TKO 11 NOBODAY
1999-02-13 Ike Quartey Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya W12 GOOD WIN
1998-09-18 Julio Cesar Chavez Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya RTD 8 LOL
1998-06-13 Patrick Charpentier El Paso, TX De La Hoya TKO 3 NOBODY
1997-12-06 Wilfredo Rivera Atlantic City, NJ De La Hoya TKO 8 NOBODY
1997-09-13 Hector Camacho Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya W12 LOL
1997-06-14 David Kamau San Antonio, TX De La Hoya KO 2 NOBODY
1997-04-12 Pernell Whitaker Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya W12 GOOD WIN
1997-01-18 Miguel Angel Gonzalez Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya W12 NOBODY
1996-06-07 Julio Cesar Chavez Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya TKO 4 ROFL
1996-02-09 Darryl Tyson Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya KO 2 NOBODY
1995-12-15 Jesse James Leija New York, NY De La Hoya TKO 2 JESSE JAMES WAS DONE
FROM THIS POINT BACK THERE IS BASICALLY NO VALUE
1995-09-09 Genaro Hernandez Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya TKO 6
1995-05-06 Rafael Ruelas Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya TKO 2
1995-02-18 Juan Molina Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya W12
1994-12-10 John Avila Los Angeles, CA De La Hoya TKO 9
1994-11-18 Carl Griffith Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya TKO 3
1994-07-29 Jorge Paez Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya KO 2
1994-05-27 Giorgio Campanella Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya TKO 3
1994-03-05 Jimmi Bredahl Los Angeles, CA De La Hoya TKO 10
1993-10-30 Narciso Valenzuela Phoenix, AZ De La Hoya KO 1
1993-08-27 Angelo Nunez Beverly Hills, CA De La Hoya TKO 4
1993-08-14 Renaldo Carter St. Louis, MS De La Hoya TKO 6
1993-06-07 Troy Dorsey Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya TKO 1
1993-05-08 Frank Avelar Stateline, NV De La Hoya TKO 4
1993-04-06 Mike Grable Rochester, NY De La Hoya W8
1993-03-13 Jeff Mayweather Las Vegas, NV De La Hoya TKO 4
1993-02-06 Curtis Strong San Diego, CA De La Hoya TKO 4
1993-01-03 Paris Alexander Hollywood, CA De La Hoya TKO 2
1992-12-12 Clifford Hicks Phoenix, AZ De La Hoya KO 1
1992-11-23 Lamar Williams Inglewood, CA De La Hoya KO 1
Oscar beat Mosley in the 2nd fight (Bad decision) and the first fight Mosley was all in his prime and that was as close as it gets. Mosley is a better fighter than Manny could ever hope to be. A prime Vargas knocks Manny the out as does a prime Trinidad..
No such thing as a Prime Vargas. He had flashed of greatness that flat out never materialized. I believe Vargas was brought along too fast. I think Manny is a better fighter.
Trinidad is quite a bit bigger than Manny. I don't question that o would hurt Manny if he could catch him.
Only person out of that bunch that Oscar beat was Vargas and a washed up Mosley.
No way Oscar beats Manny.
You are underrating Oscar's opponents and overrating Manny here. First of all Oscar beat the pants off a prime Trinidad like crazy and then ran the last 3 rds. Don King promotion screw job that fight was, terrible decision. Mosley was in no way shape or form washed up when he beat him the 2nd time and they both were at their best the first fight and it was an epic war.. Manny is a great fighter but he is very small and not very defensive. He got a draw and split decision with Juan Manuel Márquez. You telling me Oscar can't beat him?? Oscar is a superior boxer one of the best ever in his era. If he comes in using his reach and jab, why do you think he can't win this fight against a guy he is much bigger than, who is not a great defensive fighter?? People counting Oscar out here are crazy..
Nobody wants to see this fight! All the REAL Mexicans want to see Manny fight Margarito!
What else has Oscar done? He beat Mosley (I'll give it to you) on the tail end of his prime after losing to him once when he was in his dead prime. He beat Ike and Whitaker. Thats pretty much it. Lots of fighters beat guys for half a fight but great fighters finish.
Oscar has handled fights from his peers in their prime 3 times maybe 4. Mosely, Ike and Whitaker. Thats all he's accomplished. Even with a 4th big he hasn't done anything significant other than promote well.
What else stands out? What else puts him above everyone else? You can't sit there and say some dude beat Manny and Oscar would have beat him so Oscar is better...that kind of speculation is silly.
Manny's beat some good fighters and most were in their prime. I'm talking about being relative to their weight class
Diaz
Marquez
Morales twice
Barrera twice
Larios is no chump
Velazquez and Jorge Julio aren't too bad either.
He's won all his big fights with the exception of one loss to Morales. Its tough to compare opponents because Oscar is bigger but on the scale of things Manny has handled his weight classes and big name fights much better than Oscar.
My whole point is more about the fact that Oscar isn't what people make him out to be.
This is like telling me that Ruiz is better than Pacman because Ruiz would kill all the guys Manny has beaten.
Right and like i said before that first loss to Shane, was a split decision and one of the best fights i have ever seen. Mosley and Oscar 1 was like Ray and Hearns 1, an epic amazing fight that neither guy really lost, the fight was just that good. And again Mosley in his prime would embarass Manny..
Whitaker is another fighter, who is better than anyone Manny has ever fought..
It's dead on when these guys are going to fight. Oscar, had a compe ive fight before he got KO'd with Hopkins all the way up to middleweight a few years ago. The same Hopkins that just schooled Kelly Pavlick.. Oscar has done very well at Super Welterweight. Manny spent a long time at super featherweight, this is his first fight ever at Welterweight. Oscar was once a dominant fighter at Welterweight.. There are some concerns with Oscar dropping back down but should be way more with Manny bulking up and taking on someone of Oscars caliber.. You are going to have to explain to me why you feel Manny will win so easy because from a physical stand-point, he has a lot going against him here.. If Oscar comes into this fight determined to throw a ton of jabs, using his reach Manny is in for a tough night. Again he has a 6 inch reach disadvantage..
Who did he dominate? Dude only won a couple of good fights.Oscar was once a dominant fighter at Welterweight
Seriously you need to stop equating guys who have fought Oscar as guys who can beat Manny. Its irrelevant.Whitaker is another fighter, who is better than anyone Manny has ever fought
I do agree that Manny is way oversized here I just don't think Oscar is a good enough fighter "today" to beat him. He's slower and less powerful than he was 8 or so years ago.
Manny went up in weight because he flat dominated his peers. Oscar has moved up because of money.
Forget the fight for a minute. Oscars been in some good battles...so what...he's lost a good portion of them. If being in good battles cons utes a great fighter then we can argue that Vargas is one of the best ever. He's fought some memorable fights but lets face it he couldn't get over the hump and make his mark.
Beating Mosley isn't enough in my opinion. Had Oscar beaten Hopkins, o and Floyd (or at least 2 out of the 3) I'd agree that he was one of the best ever but he hasn't.
He slaughtered Chavez twice, destroyed Gatti, beat Quartey, Camacho, Whitaker, the bad decision against Trinidad and the epic battle with Mosely before going up to Super-Welterweight and getting the KO of Vargas. Sounds awful impressive to me..
I don't understand this. If Oscar has fought tougher guys, which he has then yes it is relevant. This is what you do when anaylizing a fight. Look at what the physical tools are, combined with the weight classes fought in and relevent compe ion. I don't see anything wrong with what i am doing..
Agreed but he showed in the Mayweather fight he still has retained much of his boxing skill. Oscar is an Olympic Gold Medal winner and is likely the most technical fighter Manny has ever fought..
Oscar is the name in Boxing, he makes a ton of money nomatter who he fights, we are not talking about a guy who was starving for a big pay-day here.. Oscar is incredibly compe ive, he has the fought the best of his era and he has never ducked anybody. You can't argue that..
I can't totally agree with this because like i said before Oscar has fought the best of the best his whole career. He has been in so many big fights. Losing a war to Mosley in the first fight, getting robbed in the 2nd fight with Mosley and losing another bad decision to Trinidad has given some an innacurate picture of this mans career. We'll see what happens, i just like Oscars chances here as long as the weight cut doesn't drain him in the late rounds..
This is where we will disagree. This is what it boils down to. You think these fights are of value. Gatti was a pointless win. Gatti was done. Chavez was getting paid and even more done than Gatti was. Same thing for Camacho. Those 4 victories mean absolutely nothing to me. Fighting guys who are done doesn't hold value.He slaughtered Chavez twice, destroyed Gatti, beat Quartey, Camacho, Whitaker, the bad decision against Trinidad and the epic battle with Mosely before going up to Super-Welterweight and getting the KO of Vargas. Sounds awful impressive to me..
Quartey and Whitaker are good wins. I can't put much value in the Vargas win. Dude is overrated.
There is a difference between saying something is an epic legendary win and a pointless win. Gatti was a very tough guy, as was Camacho even at that point. And because you don't want to discuss compe on there is not much for us to debate i guess. You can't really point to anyone Manny has fought because Oscar would manhandle every single one of them.. All i can say is Oscar is a sizeable favorite to win this fight for a reason. Manny is banking on Oscar gassing now that he is lighter but his boxing, reach and skill give him a great chance to win this fight..
Its tough to compare would be weight classes. It will definately be Manny's toughest opponent. He handled Diaz well though.
Diaz is a good fighter, not nearly on Oscar's level but a quality opponent. I'd be more worried about Manny's Draw and Split decision win over Juan Manuel Márquez, heading into the Oscar fight. And again those fights took place at featherweight. He has never fought at Welterweight before..
because of Pacquiao & Dela Hoya height disparity, this is NOT an easy win for Manny.
his adv is his speed.
If Oscar fights the smart fight behind his jab, i don't see how he loses honestly.. His jab is still amazing but he got away from it in the 2nd half of the Mayweather fight and it cost him. If he sticks with it, and it sets up his overhand right and left hook, he should win..
Would you not agree that speed would counter an effective jab? Did he not get away from his jab because Mayweathers speed allowed him to be scored on more efficiently?
Speed is always a factor but Oscar is not exactly slow, he is still fast and in the Mayweather fight Oscar, threw too many power shots in the 2nd half of the fight. He was doing well with his jab in the first half, but he got himself out of his game.. Plus like i said before all Manny can do is attack Oscar. He is a borderline terrible defensive fighter, while Mayweather is a brilliant defensive fighter and Oscar hit him plenty in that fight. If Oscar doesn't gas, he should win the fight. Manny won't KO him, his chin is too good, only Hopkins has ever KO'd him and that was at middleweight..
And it wasn't even a head shot that put him out, he got hit with a perfect liver shot..
Last edited by dbreiden83080; 11-20-2008 at 01:08 PM.
As a boxing fan I'd rather see Pac take on Juan Diaz, the David Diaz win in my opinion just doesn't impress. Or he could fight Nate Campbell, or even Casamayor. Without facing any of these guys it's hard to say he cleaned out his division when he just bypassed the upper echelon of that division.
For Oscar I'd rather him retire and focus on being a promoter.
Oscar should win the fight if he prepares and game plans correctly.
For what it's worth... I watched that Trinidad fight live in '99, and Oscar won that fight. I thought he tried to play keep away too soon, but he had the rounds. He was robbed in that one.
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