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stfu
you're the graham harrell of trolls. You think you deserve to be in the talks for the troll trophy, but nobody even wants you at the ceremony.
I didn't spam anything. I simply enjoyed what mono had to post and wanted to read more.Baseline pulls a little maths/logic out and you spam the thread then go ad hominem phobic - who is the insecure one again?
and as for Baselines math post, again, I had nothing against his math post. i actually thought he was trying to be funny, and I found it amusing. then he got the wrong idea that i was making fun of him, and acted like a little broad got about it.
stfu
you're the graham harrell of trolls. You think you deserve to be in the talks for the troll trophy, but nobody even wants you at the ceremony.
I'm 26, (though I look about 18.)
I have chosen Christianity for myself and, by the grace of God, will never depart from it.
I said it was early, I stand corrected and I really don't feel doing a quick search only to end up quoting wiki or something pointless. It was a lazy post by me.
My later point about the 25th and Christmas being adopted, stolen or borrowed is pretty wide knowledge though.
However I don't feel like debating it. You're welcome to if you desire.
You totally forgot to put a scripture line in there.I'm 26, (though I look about 18.
I have chosen Christianity for myself and, by the grace of God, will never depart from it.
And your faith is admirable, and I hope I didn't insult you because that was not my intent.
I, too, submit to God. Not any less than you do. But, as Solomon does in Ecclesiates "I devoted myself to study and to explore by wisdom all that is done under heaven." In Timothy you are challenged to "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." That's why there are Christian scientists, and doctors, and engineers, and historians, and archeologists, and so on and so on. These people submit to God the same way you do, but work to understand His works. Remember...you are an ambassador of Jesus, and as His ambassador you should be equipped with knowledge, wisdom, and character. I think you've got the character nailed, but I challenge you to increase your knowledge and wisdom when it comes to these types of discussions.
Simply put, not everyone believes the Bible is the word of God.
The fact that Jesus embodies 300 plus prophecies concerning his Messianic role should at least make people consider whether or not he is who he said he was.
It is highly unlikely that the disciples that followed Christ around could fabricate such a watertight story... that is to say; a story that met every such prophecy because even the scholars of that time (pharisees and scribes) were ignorant about certain Messianic prophecies concerning Jesus. These prophecies, intricately woven into the Hebrew canon, were overseen by many people including the brightest minds of the time (such as Saul of Tarsus before he bacame Paul) and even some of Jesus' closest disciples. Nevertheless, Jesus satisfied every single one (a mathematical improbability)!!!
As smeagol said, either people are crazy for falling for the story of a few ignorant fishermen... or these fishermen were geniuses... or just maybe, perhaps, possibly JESUS is who he claimed he was.
No offense whatsoever.
We all have different giftings meant to reach all various kinds of people.
Some Christians are excellent with apologetics- you have clear giftings in this area- and are meant to convince the intellectuals. Like Paul in the Bible.
Other Christians, like myself, are better at exhorting, which is a gift more suited to encouraging believers than heathens.
Still I relish any opportunity to testify about God which is why I always come back to these threads.
The world will be reached, so long as we all preach Jesus the best way we know how.
For Back to Basics
Luke 3:18- " And with many other words John exhorted the people and preached the good news to them."
1 Corinthians 12:28- "And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues."
Or Wilt Chamberlain banged 500 chics and it turned into 10,000 via media, third hand accounts and shameless boasting.
And MiamiHeat... If within my belief structure I believe that the first 'religion' was the one handed down to Adam and Eve... and since the first Messianic prophecy was revealed to them. Wouldn't it be more logical to conclude that all the other 'civilizations' stole/borrowed ideas from worship of the One True GOD - and not the other way around?
Sun/Baal/Ra worshipers were in essence directing their reverence to the wrong god instead of worshipping Jehova.
You completely side-stepped the concept. Typical.
even simpler put, not everyone has access to "the Word of God"
1) Isis was Immaculate
2) You are nitpicking again, severely nitpicking and assuming.
Isis gave birth without intercourse. A "begotten by a ray of light from heaven"
Earlier, you were nitpicking about sexual penetration. I just provided you the evidence, and now you just want to argue whether or not Isis had ever had sex prior to this birth.
It's quite clear what your intentions are.
You can criticize the Roman Catholic church to legitimize your Protestant belief system until you are exhausted, but it doesn't change this little fact :
The Roman Catholic Church is -the reason- Christianity is where it is today. They are the original Christian Protestants.
You see, there were many different forms of Christianity, it was all one muddy mess, just like the ancient religions. Many different accounts of the same thing.
There were Ebionite Christians, Arian Christians, Marcionite Christians, etc. Their belief systems were so alien to what you know today, that during the Council of Nicea, the roman church tore Arian teachings and letters during the meeting for being too different.
Yet, now you want to act like christianity is any different from the ancient religions.
1) Osiris, Isis, and Horus are all incarnations of the one supreme "creator of all things" Re (Ra). Osiris, Isis, and all other gods are just incarnations from Re. Amun, Aten, they are all aspects of RA. During the New Kingdom, the Aten was considered to be an aspect of the composite deity Ra-Amun-Horus. All one and the same, associated as the one creator of all things, Re (Ra).
2) Around 1351-1356 BCE, there was an Egyptian Pharoah named Amenhotep IV, husband of the famous Nefer i. At one point, he changed his name to Akhenaten, and he established one of the first instances of monotheism, the worship of just -1- God and the dismissal of all others.
The idea of worship of only 1 supreme god is commonly mistaken as having begun with the Jews.
This badly pre-dates Judaism.
3) Anyway, I said that the 'ORIGINAL Holy Trinity' was Osiris, Isis, and Horus. Obviously, the concept of the trinity was borrowed and changed around. Instead of Isis, they have 'the holy spirit', which is basically the Father anyway.
It is highly likely that the writers of the Gospels couldn't list every single Messianic prophecy, let alone comprehend them. And yet as they wrote about Jesus' life, their accounts fulfilled every single Messianic prophecy found in the Hebrew Canon. Jesus himself had to remind his own disciples of the scriptures because they couldn't outright understand his earthly purpose. How then could they turn around and produce an account of Jesus' life in which they inadvertantly cover every such prophecy? Any other who claims to be the Messiah would have to meet these requisites. To date, only Jesus has.
Do you not find it odd that only the 'tribe' of Judah made it this far? That is to say, that the Jews are the last remaining Hebrews still around today?
Or that the town of Bethlehem still exists amidst such a violent setting(particularly when so many other more important cities have come and gone in that same time period)?
I don't.
They serve to remind me that the next person who claims to be the Messiah would have to satisfy those two highly known pre-requisites. The fact that they're still around lends credence to the fact that someone else will try to claim just that (the anti-Christ).
If you think Judaism is the oldest religion, you gots some reading to do.
How is this relevant to discussing the Bible as a fable?
As far as how the fable came to be. This has been explained to death in this thread.
No it hasn't.
The dates and times and moments are rooted in calendars. The stories were grown and cultivated around the time pieces. This isn't opinion ok.
Dude, how dense can you be? What you present about calendars and other gods explains .
One more time:
How did this myth about Christ develop? You have a man (or maybe not, according to you) being born on the year 1 AD and dying on the year 33 AD.
There were disciples of this man that wrote his life story, starting less than 20years from his death. You have written do ents from the 2nd C that prove that those books of the Bible existed. You have other writings from Christians, starting around the year 90 AD, going all the way to the our time, that attest to Christ's existance.
So, once again, where exactly did the Christ-myth develop?
Was it the apostles that invented him?
Was it St Paul?
Was it the next generation og Christians that pushed this myth further?
These are the questions you need to answer. All that calendar crap has been refuted to death.
What is your deal with the "STFU". Why do I have to STFU. What the is your problem.
I'm not going away. I'm not spamming the board. I'm being a reasonable contributor to this thread. You have ing issues.
What makes you think you can tell me to STFU. What makes you think you can remove me from the thread?
I'm saying STFU because you are being an annyoing . Half of your posts are jabs and low blows to Christians, which is not uncommon when discussing these topics. Atheists get angsty and start with the low blows after their second post.
I find no validity in any of it because you have no first hand original do entation from when the man was alive and no physical evidence.
Third and forth and 60th hand accounts aren't enough for me.
You're wasting your time citing miracles and gospel talk to me. My faith is stronger than that.
I don't debate it.
The syncretism is here is not one of belief, but thematic elements and feast days, so I don't really see how this touches the core of Christian belief. At best, it nibbles around the edges.
Adam and Eve were Jews? Interesting....
Was Job a Jew?
Try again.
Sounds like the blunder is backfiring already.
1) Adam and Eve is a creation story of the Jews. The egyptian civilization pre-dates them by thousands of years.
2) The Egyptians also had a creation story that pre-dates Jehovah, by thousands of years. It is known as "Ra and the Serpent" and the similarities between that story and the Hebrew story of creation has already been established by scholars.
3) The Serpent refers to Apep. You see, Ra (God) enemy was also a serpent.
Apep was the embodiment of evil and darkness (the night).
Here is more on him :
Apep was the ancient spirit of evil and destruction who dwelled in eternal darkness. Every day he would attempt to devour the Sun Boat of Ra as it sailed the heavens. Set's original role was to battle Apep and keep him from destroying the boat. Occasionally, Apep would succeed, and the world would be plunged into darkness (a solar eclipse?). But Set and his companion Mehen would cut a hole in Apep's belly to allow the Sun Boat to escape.
Apep commanded an army of demons that plagued mankind. Only by putting faith in the gods of light could people defeat the demons.
Every year, a ritual called the "Banishing of Apep" would be held by the priests of Ra. They would take an effigy of Apep and in the center of the temple they would pray that all the wickedness in Egypt would go into the effigy. Then they would trample the effigy, crush it, beat it with sticks, pour mud on it, and eventually burn and destroy it. In this way, the power of Apep would be curtailed for another year.
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Does that all sound very familiar to you Christians? Sure does
Last edited by MiamiHeat; 01-07-2009 at 12:37 PM.
Gospel talk? Really?
I'm talking about the mathematical probabilities of the information contained within the gospels. Mind-baffling probabilities... Clearly a product of statistical significance despite the fact that it wasn't written with that intent.
I'm also talking about the historical relevance of Bethlehem, and the tribe of Judah (modern day Jews)...
You ignore at your own peril.
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