The whole Laker defense shut LeBron down. Kobe backed LB down once or twice, why can't Bron do that?
As a Spurs fan, I hate to say it, but Kobe earned major respect for continuing to play after the dislocated finger, for guarding Lebron, and for doing exactly what was needed for his team to win. Serious props.
thats definately one thing he has to work on. With a body that freakishly strong, he should be backing kobe up all day.
LOL @ Laker fans trying to take credit for the Minneapolis les when at one point there were 8 teams in the league.
-Mars
If it's good enjough for the NBA record books, it's good enough for us.
So the Celtics shouldn't take credit for 11 of their les earned when there were like 10 teams in the league and no salary cap?
LeBron enjoys challenge Bryant offers
Cavs forward beginning to emphasize defense in matchups with stars
By George M. Thomas
Beacon Journal sports writer
LOS ANGELES: Going into Monday's game against the Los Angeles Lakers, Sasha Pavlovic got the task of guarding Kobe Bryant; most certainly it wouldn't end up that way.
Why? Because LeBron James wants it that way. Flashback to a Sunday afternoon, nationally televised game almost a year ago, when James and Bryant shot hoops the way that Rocky Balboa and Apollo Creed went at one another in two Rocky films. Two players thriving on compe ion in the national spotlight is what fans got.
''LeBron asks for matchups like that,'' coach Mike Brown said.
It's also something Brown learned working under Gregg Popovich in San Antonio. Toward the end of the game, fans often got Tim Duncan on Shaquille O'Neal.
''It's kind of what we do with LeBron, too,'' he said, ''but now LeBron, because he's mature enough, he's to a point in his career where we don't worry about saving LeBron. LeBron is compe ive. He wants guys like Kobe.''
Indeed, James only confirmed Brown's reasoning. Offense has never been the problem with the phenom from Akron St. Vincent-St. Mary, but his defensive game could always use some work. Enter this year, when James has improved significantly on that side of the ball, so much so that Brown continues to wage a campaign to get him recognition.
James views playing against Bryant a challenge.
''Anytime you go against the best in the world, Kobe, Paul Pierce those types of guys, it's always a challenge,'' he said. ''Personally, I love challenges. I love the compe ive nature Kobe has.''
But because of the time they shared on the men's U.S. Olympic basketball team, something else has developed there as well. James said they had a hi-and-bye relationship before that. Now, he considers Bryant a friend, having met his family. Then there's the fact that Bryant was on the floor way before James hit the NBA and endured similar experiences, such as bypassing a college playing career.
''I've looked up to him a long time through grade school, high school. To be able to be on the same court and play alongside him was a blessing for me,'' James said.
It may be a blessing now, but the casual gambler would be making a safe wager by assuming James won't be counting that blessing when taking the floor in the Staples Center.
Cavs by the numbers
So how has that increased intensity translated to something tangible for the Cavaliers? The team can claim the greatest improvement in two important defensive categories from last season. The Cavs are allowing 7.7 fewer points per game (96.7 to 89) and chopping the field-goal percentage allowed to 41 percent.
LeBron by the numbers
Coach Brown has argued all season that James deserves recognition for his defensive prowess. A couple of numbers support that contention: Among league small forwards, James leads in steals and blocked shots and is one of just two players to average two blocks and a steal each game.
Are they still also the best for losing the most Finals in NBA history?. And not to mention the best winning % of any team in NBA history along with the most Finals appearances. The Lakers have been in over half of all NBA Finals to date.
Simply the best franchise in basketball.
Notice the legitimate and historically accurate question.
Notice how Laker Fan doesn't even attempt to engage in conversation that doesn't revolve around Kobe being the infallible God of hoops.
Duncan is undoubtedly great but if Kobe could stop Parker or Ginobili, you would think he'd do so instead of hiding out on Bowen. Wouldn't you agree that if you have a great perimeter stopper on your team that you would have him guard someone who scores more than five points per 48 minutes? Other supposedly great perimeter defenders actually step up to the challenge and guard Parker and Ginobili on a regular basis. Kobe doesn't; thus the question.
And I think the "spew Kobe venom" is relative. I've acknowledge he's a great player many times. He kills the Spurs. I've said there's not a better closer in the world in any sport. But, as seen in this thread, if you question Him, the insecure Kobe fans will attack the questioner and not the question.
+10
i'm still amazed lebron doesn't develop a post game. given his size and strength, it's something that should and WOULD give him an advantage at.
m33po, clear that off you're face.
There's a couple of reasons Kobe doesn't guard Parker or Ginobili on a regular basis, but you talk as if Kobe doesn't ever guard either or is incapable of guarding either. Parker is obviously a tough match-up for anyone to guard, even other elite perimeter defenders. It takes a great deal of energy and endurance to stay in front of Parker for 30+ minutes a game. It's the same reason Michael Jordan rarely guarded the likes of Isiah Thomas or Allen Iverson for the majority of games. That didn't make Jordan not an all league defender. Just a tough match-up for him. It's not even like Pippen took Isiah or Iverson. Neither could match up with the quickness and speed.
Then of course it's about saving Kobe on the defensive end to save his energy for offense and to save him for the end of games. You'll see Kobe match-up on Ginobili in the fourth quarter, just like the last time the two teams met and Kobe denied Ginobili the ball effectively for much of the fourth. Watching Pop do the same thing for Tim Duncan, saving him from fouls earlier in the game against other elite lost post players, you'd think you'd understand the reasoning for Kobe.
Your comments here aren't your only pot shots you've taken on Kobe lately. He had a poor finish the other day and you make a post just to laugh at him not being the closer MJ was. Just to mock him. It's not just one time. It's not just in this thread. You can temper and color your vile all you want with the fake praise you claim to give him, but what good is it to basically say, "he's awesome, but he really sucks." That's what you do. A posting contradiction. You try to make yourself look unbiased and say, "hey, I know he's great." And, then turn around and blast on the guy any chance you can get. Please. You're too smart a poster to pretentiously justify, or worse hide, your Kobe venom.And I think the "spew Kobe venom" is relative. I've acknowledge he's a great player many times. He kills the Spurs. I've said there's not a better closer in the world in any sport. But, as seen in this thread, if you question Him, the insecure Kobe fans will attack the questioner and not the question.
I like Kobe as a player, but I also think Kobe is a major bag and egomaniac. I don't consider myself a blinded "Kobe fan." Yet it's been pretty clear to me that you have a pretty healthy hate for Kobe from your posts on him, regardless of how you try to soften your posts with false and fluffy praise.
Is a great defender not being able to guard another player because of a bad match up the same as a great team losing to another team in the playoffs because of a bad match up?
And why did Kobe just state that he wanted to start off on Lebron in the first for the exact opposite reason you just gave? He said he did not want to guard him in the 4th after he already had it going. He wanted to prevent him from ever getting it going.
By the way, I think Kobe is a very good defender. It is just that there is logic both ways. If Ariza can guard Parker, then Kobe can. There is no reason to have him stuck on Bowen, unless they truly feel that they do not have to respect the Spurs on offense and it is better served for their team to have all of Kobe's energy on offense.
People are spewing some venom, not because they truly do not respect Kobe or the Lakers; it is because the number of D-bag Laker fans on the board outweighs the logical and cool ones. Nothing more. It gets old hearing their same old bs day after day after day. Talking is cool...to a certain point. Then it just clouds everything else.
Last edited by DPG21920; 01-21-2009 at 11:35 AM.
I would love for that to happen. The era of the two most overrated basketball players ever... Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain. Great players, no question, but wouldn't be NEARLY as effective in today's NBA. No 100 point games. No 9-peats or whatever. None of that. They played in what is BY FAR the tiest era of basketball, and were simply athletes that were ahead of their time. Teams were full of ty, unathetlic players back then, not to mention a complete lack of defensive strategy in comparison to today.
nice comeback. really, it is.
I talk as if Kobe doesn't ever guard either because he doesn't. That Kobe on Manu we saw last game was one of the very rare times we've seen that matchup in the last seven years. And really, Manu blew his load by the beginning of the fourth so Kobe versus an exhausted Manu wasn't much of a battle.
Name an elite perimeter defender and they've probably guarded Parker more than Kobe ever has. The few times Kobe guarded Parker, Parker got Kobe into immediate foul trouble and that was scratched from the playbook.
I can buy the excuse for Parker but why not Manu? If MJ or Pippen were around today, you could bet your bottom dollar that they'd both take turns at guarding Manu.
When those Bulls played the Spurs, MJ would always step up to the plate and guard the Spurs' hottest perimeter player. Elliott even a few times got loose on Pippen so MJ switched over to guard him.
That was one game. Last year in the playoffs, Kobe stayed on Bowen or Udoka the whole time. I remember one half PJax switched it up and had Kobe guarding Finley ... but after a few Finley jumpers PJax switched Kobe back to Bowen.
Link to where I call Duncan a great regular season defensive player? I call TD out all the time for his weak defensive efforts and for hiding out on scrubs. It's not like a praise TD out of one side of my mouth and question Kobe out of the other side of my mouth. I've never complained about TD not being DPOY (even though most say he should have earned one at some point) because hiding out and saving yourself for the offensive end doesn't make one an elite defender.
Furthermore, it's not like Kobe is a great help defender when he's guarding Bowen. For example, even a defensively challenged player like Dirk sometimes guards Bowen but when he's doing that he can cause havoc by doubling off. Kobe, on the other hand, rarely has been a defensive difference maker throughout the years even though he has the easiest matchup on either team. The only notable thing Kobe has done defensively is to have a first row seat as Bowen has racked up most of his career-best games against his D.
Put that in context. There were two or three active threads in which Laker Fan was saying Kobe was as good or even a better closer than MJ. For Kobe to fail on the same day Laker Fan was proclaiming his superiority to MJ was indeed funny.
Where is the fake praise? Point it out.
Great player = fact
Great closer = fact
Kills the Spurs = fact
None of that praise is fake.
Although it doesn't mean I like him. I happen to think that Kobe is a conceded, fake and contrived egomaniac who has a history of being a bad teammate, a bad judge of talent and always suc bs to his urgers - on and off the court. I don't know if you want me to apologize for not liking the guy but I've never hid my disdain for Kobe . . . which dates back even to when the Spurs were curbstomping the Lakers back in 1999.
I know Laker Fan says I don't like him because he's killed the Spurs multiple times but that's simply not the root of my issues with him. I like Dirk and Dirk was more of a headache for the Spurs in 2006 than Kobe has ever been. I like Shaq and Shaq was the player who dominated the Spurs in 2001, 2002 and 2004. I just don't like Kobe.
I'd be perfectly fine not liking Kobe and keeping the Kobe posts to a minimum but in case you haven't noticed this forum has turned into Kobe Central for the last few weeks. I can't sit by and see Kobe get praise such as he's better than MJ, he's more skilled than MJ, he's a better closer than MJ ever was, he has worse teammates than LeBron, he has always had worse teammates than LeBron, he was better and more important than Shaq during the three-peat and whatever else Laker Fan and Kobe Fan had been spewing as of late. Chiming in to try to clarify the actual historical standing of Kobe doesn't mean I'm venomous towards him ... even if I do add some Kobe jokes along the way to see Laker Fan and Kobe Fan squirm.
Well said I can't talk Lakerz fans on spurstalk ..... they are like drinking that vinegar water straight otu of a bag, vomiting it and then drinking the vomit up with a straw
That bolded part basically sums up your opinion of Mr Bean Bryant. It has nothing to do with Kobe the man it's that your forum has been overrun with Kobe praise and you can't stand it. You my as well start cancelling threads if they don't seem to fit your stance and opinion.I talk as if Kobe doesn't ever guard either because he doesn't. That Kobe on Manu we saw last game was one of the very rare times we've seen that matchup in the last seven years. And really, Manu blew his load by the beginning of the fourth so Kobe versus an exhausted Manu wasn't much of a battle.
Name an elite perimeter defender and they've probably guarded Parker more than Kobe ever has. The few times Kobe guarded Parker, Parker got Kobe into immediate foul trouble and that was scratched from the playbook.
I can buy the excuse for Parker but why not Manu? If MJ or Pippen were around today, you could bet your bottom dollar that they'd both take turns at guarding Manu.
When those Bulls played the Spurs, MJ would always step up to the plate and guard the Spurs' hottest perimeter player. Elliott even a few times got loose on Pippen so MJ switched over to guard him.
That was one game. Last year in the playoffs, Kobe stayed on Bowen or Udoka the whole time. I remember one half PJax switched it up and had Kobe guarding Finley ... but after a few Finley jumpers PJax switched Kobe back to Bowen.
Link to where I call Duncan a great regular season defensive player? I call TD out all the time for his weak defensive efforts and for hiding out on scrubs. It's not like a praise TD out of one side of my mouth and question Kobe out of the other side of my mouth. I've never complained about TD not being DPOY (even though most say he should have earned one at some point) because hiding out and saving yourself for the offensive end doesn't make one an elite defender.
Furthermore, it's not like Kobe is a great help defender when he's guarding Bowen. For example, even a defensively challenged player like Dirk sometimes guards Bowen but when he's doing that he can cause havoc by doubling off. Kobe, on the other hand, rarely has been a defensive difference maker throughout the years even though he has the easiest matchup on either team. The only notable thing Kobe has done defensively is to have a first row seat as Bowen has racked up most of his career-best games against his D.
Put that in context. There were two or three active threads in which Laker Fan was saying Kobe was as good or even a better closer than MJ. For Kobe to fail on the same day Laker Fan was proclaiming his superiority to MJ was indeed funny.
Where is the fake praise? Point it out.
Great player = fact
Great closer = fact
Kills the Spurs = fact
None of that praise is fake.
Although it doesn't mean I like him. I happen to think that Kobe is a conceded, fake and contrived egomaniac who has a history of being a bad teammate, a bad judge of talent and always suc bs to his urgers - on and off the court. I don't know if you want me to apologize for not liking the guy but I've never hid my disdain for Kobe . . . which dates back even to when the Spurs were curbstomping the Lakers back in 1999.
I know Laker Fan says I don't like him because he's killed the Spurs multiple times but that's simply not the root of my issues with him. I like Dirk and Dirk was more of a headache for the Spurs in 2006 than Kobe has ever been. I like Shaq and Shaq was the player who dominated the Spurs in 2001, 2002 and 2004. I just don't like Kobe.
I'd be perfectly fine not liking Kobe and keeping the Kobe posts to a minimum but in case you haven't noticed this forum has turned into Kobe Central for the last few weeks. I can't sit by and see Kobe get praise such as he's better than MJ, he's more skilled than MJ, he's a better closer than MJ ever was, he has worse teammates than LeBron, he has always had worse teammates than LeBron, he was better and more important than Shaq during the three-peat and whatever else Laker Fan and Kobe Fan had been spewing as of late. Chiming in to try to clarify the actual historical standing of Kobe doesn't mean I'm venomous towards him ... even if I do add some Kobe jokes along the way to see Laker Fan and Kobe Fan squirm.[/
Oh and KOBE For Life. Am I a zeolot...sure but we are all witnesses to his greatness and really the only player I would pay money to see....
Actually this is my opinion on Kobe the man . . .
Kobe praise is one thing. Overboard Kobe praise that he's yet to earn is another. And yeah, I can stand it. It's actually pretty funny.
Yes because SpursTalk is known for threads getting "canceled".
At least you are honest.
Now if only Laker Fan can stop being so insecure that they have to jump on any post that doesn't proclaim Kobe as the greatest.
No. Because player A can be a bad match-up player B has a hard time defending, but player B can be just as bad a match-up for player A to defend, and player B can still outplay player A even if they don't guard one another. So, to the point of this discussion. Kobe might have a hard time guarding Tony Parker but still outplay him statistically and the Lakers win the game. While if a bad match-up between teams leads to one team beating the other, then the team that won is the better team.
Absolutely not the same thing.
Good question. More of a question for Phil Jackson to answer. I didn't argue that Kobe didn't want to guard either Tony or Manu for entire games. I gave reasons why he hasn't. That's not necessarily Kobe's decision, but rather Phil Jackson's. So, it's not to necessarily say Kobe doesn't want the challenge of guarding Parker or Manu, but rather a coaching decision. But, I can't say that either way with any certainty.
That's fine if some Spurs fans do it in response to jackass Laker fans. I never said it was a problem. I merely was amused by it.People are spewing some venom, not because they truly do not respect Kobe or the Lakers; it is because the number of D-bag Laker fans on the board outweighs the logical and cool ones. Nothing more. It gets old hearing their same old bs day after day after day. Talking is cool...to a certain point. Then it just clouds everything else.
Look Timvp, I have huge love for this forum, I've been here almost 5 years, albeit when I joined it was to talk trash, but I've evolved. I love Kobe, is he perfect no, no one is...but he's the greatest player I've seen play. Oh, and I grew up watching MJ and his heroics were mind boggling, however I'm a Laker fan, hence a Kobe fan.Actually this is my opinion on Kobe the man . . .
Kobe praise is one thing. Overboard Kobe praise that he's yet to earn is another. And yeah, I can stand it. It's actually pretty funny.
Yes because SpursTalk is known for threads getting "canceled".
At least you are honest.
Now if only Laker Fan can stop being so insecure that they have to jump on any post that doesn't proclaim Kobe as the greatest.
Do you think Kobe is better than MJ?
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