Phoenix is a team of es

[underdawg]

Blah Blah. The Suns haven't tried to remodel , they've never even bothered trying to play defense or acquiring defensive minded players. The Spurs didn't "kill" the Suns, the Suns front office did with a slew of boneheaded errors. The Suns are just going from elite to mediocrity, nothing to see here.

The Spurs killed the Suns and the Mavs - both teams went through significant changes even though they had been at the top of the Western Conference regular season standings. Both teams decided that they were not going to beat the Spurs with their current lineups. The run and gun Suns and the pre-Kidd Mavs were better teams than they are now.

[ducks]

suns are better then the run and gun
it is nash that is worse

[Rummpd]

Blah Blah. The Suns haven't tried to remodel , they've never even bothered trying to play defense or acquiring defensive minded players. The Spurs didn't "kill" the Suns, the Suns front office did with a slew of boneheaded errors. The Suns are just going from elite to mediocrity, nothing to see here.

Just like the Mavs Office is doing! Justice served on two over-hyped owners and franchises that will only be remembered as near misses, not championship organizations.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Just like the Mavs Office is doing! Justice served on two over-hyped owners and franchises that will only be remembered as near misses, not championship organizations.

Cuban is a great owner, and Sarver is a mediocre owner, not some Donald Sterling part 2 like some people say he is.

[SenorSpur]

I'd be the first to say I don't have any sympathy for the -ass Suns. It's been a pleasure seeing the Spurs "own" their asses for the past 5 years, on their way to 4 les. I was thinking that it's gotta be just disheartening for Suns players and fans, to see them lose to the Spurs, 3 times in the playoffs, under all sorts of varying cir stances (injuries, suspensions, natural beat downs, etc.)

On last year, they make the sudden, midseason move of bringing in the Big Mouth, with the deliberate intent to counter Duncan. Only to lose in the playoffs again.

Then over the summer, they make the drastic decision of changing coaches, changing styles, changing philosophies and still end up being the Spurs favorite jailhouse during the regular season.

Can't wait to read the meltdown responses on the Suns Fan Forum. In fact, I'm going there now.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I'd be the first to say I don't have any sympathy for the -ass Suns. It's been a pleasure seeing the Spurs "own" their asses for the past 5 years, on their way to 4 les. I was thinking that it's gotta be just disheartening for Suns players and fans, to see them lose to the Spurs, 3 times in the playoffs, under all sorts of varying cir stances (injuries, suspensions, natural beat downs, etc.)

On last year, they make the sudden, midseason move of bringing in the Big Mouth, with the deliberate intent to counter Duncan. Only to lose in the playoffs again.

Then over the summer, they make the drastic decision of changing coaches, changing styles, changing philosophies and still end up being the Spurs favorite jailhouse during the regular season.

Can't wait to read the meltdown responses on the Suns Fan Forum. In fact, I'm going there now.

They traded for Shaq for many reasons, Duncan only being one of them. The Gasol trade played a role, Al Jefferson dropping 40 points whenever they played was a problem. Manu's monster game in the paint a week prior played a role.

If they still had Marion, they would be just as bad. Shaq has been their best player this year.

They didn't try to change the system, they tried to worry less about O and more about D. The problem is Nash and Amare never gave Porter a chance and refused to get better at D because it wasn't "fun". We now know what the problem is on this team, and we now know all the Suns were doing against the Spurs when they had Nash was losing to a team they should be losing to.

[SenorSpur]

They traded for Shaq for many reasons, Duncan only being one of them. The Gasol trade played a role, Al Jefferson dropping 40 points whenever they played was a problem. Manu's monster game in the paint a week prior played a role.

If they still had Marion, they would be just as bad. Shaq has been their best player this year.

They didn't try to change the system, they tried to worry less about O and more about D. The problem is Nash and Amare never gave Porter a chance and refused to get better at D because it wasn't "fun". We now know what the problem is on this team, and we now know all the Suns were doing against the Spurs when they had Nash was losing to a team they should be losing to.

I've been reading the Kerr will soon be faced with a crucial decision. Should he axe the coach and appease the players by going back to a more friendly style of play? Or should he ship out Amare, who will have the option to opt out of his contract in the next year or so. Obviously, he's been one of the loudest opponents of the new style and he's simply not progressed enough as a solid defender.

What do you think Kerr will do? Do yo believe the root cause of the issues with that team is their continued resistance to play D?

[YoMamaIsCallin]

But Collins was sucking the collective of the Suns all game.

What the is a "collective " ??

Is it one single giant made up of all the Suns s? If so are they end-to-end, or are they side-by-side like asparagus at the supermarket?

Or maybe there's a singular "Collective " that speaks for and controls all the s, and they are sucked by proxy?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[MarHill]

Here's what I wrote about Phx in another thread:

As a Spurs fan, it's easy to post that I'm glad to see the Suns struggle. But, I've liked their style of play in the last 4-5 years and I believe the front office got away from their strengths in order to beat the Spurs.

They've never had the personnel to totally remake themselves. Unless they were able to draft someone like a Tim Duncan (I know those type of players...don't come around often) and then you would have to totally rebuild and start over.

But, they are trying to remake their team and still win and that usually doesn't work.

I believe you should never go away from your strengths to overcompensate for your weaknesses. For example, I can't sing and no matter how much I want to sing and tell everybody I can sing and take lessons to sing....it isn't going to happen and if it did happen (miraculously) it would be mediocre at best.

The Suns were never going to be a great defensive team with the personnel they had and they should have continue to push the envelop offensively and see what happens. They won a lot of basketball games (I know they didn't win a championship) and were still a contender.

Look at Utah...they have stayed with same philosophy over the years and they are a winning franchise.

Strengthen your strengths instead of trying to overcome your weaknesses!![/QUOTE]

[YoMamaIsCallin]

True. It was funny that Collins, at the end of the game, started to make some redundant observation and stammered to get the words San Antonio Spurs out, saying something like "Phoenix . . . the Suns . . . . the Sun . . . . San Antonio Spurs, pardon me." It was as if his script called for him to pimp the Suns there, but the scoreboard wouldn't let him.

That and the elation in his voice when Hill got the and-1 off the steal from Parker to make it a 3 point game late was interesting to compare to his absolutely crestfallen tone when Parker drilled the long jumper to make it 5 with about a minute to go.

Excellent observations. Collins was extremely clear about his version of the narrative of this game. He specifically mentioned right at the top, and repeated it later when the Suns were catching up in the 4th, that the Suns really, really wanted this game, and that it was to be their launching pad for an 8 game win streak which would put them right back into the upper echelon of the Western Conference. And his joy when the Suns made a run, and his sadness when Parker and Ginobili cold-bloodedly nailed the win at the end, were painfully obvious.

Does Collins hate the Spurs for some reason that anyone knows? Or does he just think the Suns are more "exciting" for the NBA and it would be better from a ratings point of view if they were in it?

[MarHill]

Excellent observations. Collins was extremely clear about his version of the narrative of this game. He specifically mentioned right at the top, and repeated it later when the Suns were catching up in the 4th, that the Suns really, really wanted this game, and that it was to be their launching pad for an 8 game win streak which would put them right back into the upper echelon of the Western Conference. And his joy when the Suns made a run, and his sadness when Parker and Ginobili cold-bloodedly nailed the win at the end, were painfully obvious.

Does Collins hate the Spurs for some reason that anyone knows? Or does he just think the Suns are more "exciting" for the NBA and it would be better from a ratings point of view if they were in it?

I don't think that Doug Collins hates the Spurs. I believe Spurs fans are hypersensitive about the media's perception on this team.

Doug lives in Phoenix and he said the Suns players told the local media this was a big regular season game. Also, there is a lot of angst from the city of PHX against the Spurs for obvious reasons.

[sribb43]

This thread le is a classic

[SenorSpur]

Here's what I wrote about Phx in another thread:

As a Spurs fan, it's easy to post that I'm glad to see the Suns struggle. But, I've liked their style of play in the last 4-5 years and I believe the front office got away from their strengths in order to beat the Spurs.

They've never had the personnel to totally remake themselves. Unless they were able to draft someone like a Tim Duncan (I know those type of players...don't come around often) and then you would have to totally rebuild and start over.

But, they are trying to remake their team and still win and that usually doesn't work.

I believe you should never go away from your strengths to overcompensate for your weaknesses. For example, I can't sing and no matter how much I want to sing and tell everybody I can sing and take lessons to sing....it isn't going to happen and if it did happen (miraculously) it would be mediocre at best.

The Suns were never going to be a great defensive team with the personnel they had and they should have continue to push the envelop offensively and see what happens. They won a lot of basketball games (I know they didn't win a championship) and were still a contender.

Look at Utah...they have stayed with same philosophy over the years and they are a winning franchise.

Strengthen your strengths instead of trying to overcome your weaknesses!!

Very good post.

Allow me to chime in. You sound like a person, who is very self-aware and in tune with your personal strengths and weaknesses. You're also very honest about your shortcomings in the singing department. You're certainly don't appear to be in denial about it at all.

For a GM to be successful, he must do the same thing. Take an honest evaluation of his teams strengths and weaknesses. Face the truthe, no matter how unpleasant. Understand what you are and what you aspire to be.

I agree with you. The Suns decided they wanted to be more offensively flexibile and play a more half-court style during the playoffs. As a result, they went out and traded for Shaq. If the Suns wanted to aspire to be a better defensive team, they should have traded out some of the current parts and brought in parts that would help them move toward that goal. While they finally traded out a few parts, the remaining parts from the old regime have resisted the change in playing style. They're not committed because they don't seemingly have the ability to self-sacrifice.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

I've been reading the Kerr will soon be faced with a crucial decision. Should he axe the coach and appease the players by going back to a more friendly style of play? Or should he ship out Amare, who will have the option to opt out of his contract in the next year or so. Obviously, he's been one of the loudest opponents of the new style and he's simply not progressed enough as a solid defender.

What do you think Kerr will do? Do yo believe the root cause of the issues with that team is their continued resistance to play D?

I actually think Amare himself is the root cause of their issues. He is a classic team killer. He demands so much on offense that they become extremely predictable, and he gives most of it back on the defensive end, because he doesn't even try there. I compare him to Antoine Walker in his effects on a team, although they are very different players.

Bringing Shaq in actually made things worse. As the Spurs showed, he is vulnerable to swarming team defense. I think they took the ball away from him three times in a row in the fourth quarter. Plus, Shaq demands the ball too, like Amare does, so when Shaq and Amare are in together, Amare is kind of wasted, except for his 18-foot jumpers (which anyone in the league can do!)

The Suns have lots of talented players who just aren't getting touches on the offense. Jason Richardson and Leandro Barbosa aren't getting anything. Grant Hill gets some, but most of that is on fast breaks and just because he keeps moving and getting open rather than waiting for a play to develop.

I think if the Suns got rid of Amare it'd be addition by subtraction. And they'd get a quality backup for Nash, or another great shooter, or something good in return.

[MarHill]

Very good post.

Allow me to chime in. You sound like a person, who is very self-aware and in tune with your personal strengths and weaknesses. You're also very honest about your shortcomings in the singing department. You're certainly don't appear to be in denial about it at all.

For a GM to be successful, he must do the same thing. Take an honest evaluation of his teams strengths and weaknesses. Face the truthe, no matter how unpleasant. Understand what you are and what you aspire to be.



I agree with you. The Suns decided they wanted to be more offensively flexibile and play a more half-court style during the playoffs. As a result, they went out and traded for Shaq. If the Suns wanted to aspire to be a better defensive team, they should have traded out some of the current parts and brought in parts that would help them move toward that goal. While they finally traded out a few parts, the remaining parts from the old regime have resisted the change in playing style. They're not committed because they don't seemingly have the ability to self-sacrifice.

Thanks, Senor Spur!

I'm just older now and I know what I can do and what I can't do. I had to learn the hard way!

[ShoogarBear]

I don't think that Doug Collins hates the Spurs. I believe Spurs fans are hypersensitive about the media's perception on this team.

Doug lives in Phoenix and he said the Suns players told the local media this was a big regular season game. Also, there is a lot of angst from the city of PHX against the Spurs for obvious reasons.

I almost never hate on TNT announcers, but Collins is especially bad, and his apex was the 2007 playoffs. His hatred of the Spurs (especially v. the Suns) was on full display.

[tp2021]

Inquiring minds want to know.

You want to know how to suck a ?

[tp2021]

I agree, the Spurs are better. And the Suns know it and it's in their heads. No matter what the Suns have done to try to adjust to us and get through us it's failed. We can play their game and we can make them play ours. It's always fun to watch.

This.

[BlackBellamy]

The NBA is disgracing the word "rivalry" every time they use it when these teams matchup.

It has been said before and I'll say it again. The Spurs/Suns "rivalry" exists nowadays only in the minds of Suns fans. And that is only for the fact that if they ever win one they can feel like they are contenders again. Weak sauce.

[hater]

this is a good point. TNT/ESPN pimp each suns vs. SPurs game as "one of the biggest rivalries in NBA" it's a ing joke of a rivalry.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

What do you think Kerr will do? Do yo believe the root cause of the issues with that team is their continued resistance to play D?

Yes, I do believe the root of the Sun's problems is their resistance to defense. Their offensive rating going from 113.3 to 110.2 isn't the reason they're imploding this season (contrary to what the Phoenix media says and what a lot of the announcers say), their defensive rating staying at 108.9 is the reason they're imploding.

I think if it were completely up to Kerr Nash and Amare would be gone shortly, but the problem is the media and ticket buyers have fallen in love with Nash and Amare too much and refuse to give up on the all offense no defense mentality. Kerr's seat would get extremely hot because the Phoenix fans will expect to see immediate results and they wouldn't.

[de Soto]

Maybe es but still better than the " s in Blue" up North.

[SenorSpur]

Yes, I do believe the root of the Sun's problems is their resistance to defense. Their offensive rating going from 113.3 to 110.2 isn't the reason they're imploding this season (contrary to what the Phoenix media says and what a lot of the announcers say), their defensive rating staying at 108.9 is the reason they're imploding.

I think if it were completely up to Kerr Nash and Amare would be gone shortly, but the problem is the media and ticket buyers have fallen in love with Nash and Amare too much and refuse to give up on the all offense no defense mentality. Kerr's seat would get extremely hot because the Phoenix fans will expect to see immediate results and they wouldn't.

Kerr has quite a conundrum. Nash and Amare are not, all of a sudden, going to become better defenders.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i wonder whats the fine if a player calls out or a rude gesture to the commentators....cause seriously they suck.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Maybe es but still better than the " s in Blue" up North.

what about the s in pink?