most Underrated team ever- '95 Rockets

[Rogue]

Who would have guarded hakeem?

account for your own business fool, you were definitely not a rockets fan at that time.

FYI, you're not more worthful than a .

[scanry]

Who would have guarded hakeem?

Probably nobody, but more importantly who would've stopped Jordan from torching the Rockets? Now that is more relevant. No team stopped Jordan in the postseason, and Rockets sure as wouldn't stand a chance.

[kingmalaki]

Who would have guarded hakeem?

Probably nobody, but more importantly who would've stopped Jordan from torching the Rockets? Now that is more relevant. No team stopped Jordan in the postseason, and Rockets sure as wouldn't stand a chance.

Probably nobody? Well ok....if nobody can stop Hakeem then the Rockets aren't losing...assuming other guys can hit their shots. You are basically avoiding the question by reverting back to the same "no one could stop Jordan" myth. To with Jordan. Let him get what he usually got back then, because the Rockets had a center that could churn points like him at a more efficient rate. This is what you keep ignoring.

If Jordan scores 35 and Hakeem scores 35, in a more efficient manner...then doesn't the advantage go to Houston? Again, in the 95 Playoffs Hakeem put up 33 a game on 53%. Can you find me one of MJ's le postseason runs where he put up 33 a night on 53%...since no one could stop Jordan? No, you can't. MJ put up more points than Hakeem's 33 in two of those le seasons, but always at a lower FG%.

So again, why don't you try answering this simple question and stop avoiding it? In the 95 Playoffs Hakeem dropped 35 a night on Robinson/Rodman, on 56%. He put up 27, 41, 43, 20 (his only bad game...where he shot 9-24), 42 and 39 points. He did this while having to hold Robinson on the other end. In the Finals, he put up 33 a night on Shaq/Grant, on 50%. He did this while having to hold Oneal on the other end. So he could damn near drop four 40 point games on Robinson/Rodman, and 30 a night on Shaq...but he wouldn't be able to do that against any pivot the Bulls could throw at him...when he didn't have to waste any energy holding anyone defensively?

Jordan wasn't the biggest mismatch in a potential Rockets/Bulls series. It's not that hard to comprehend. Come back when you have a legit argument based on more than "Jordan was God in Nike's".

[sook]

yup it was a joke

[Thunder Dan]

the 1995 Rockets were underrated because nobody gave a about the NBA in 1995

[kingmalaki]

the 1995 Rockets were underrated because nobody gave a about the NBA in 1995

Now this is actually a true statement.

[The Franchise]

the 1995 Rockets were underrated because nobody gave a about the NBA in 1995

It's hard to give a when your still making it in your pampers young'un.

[JoeTait75]

Question isn't what MJ or Hakeem would do. Those guys would get theirs. Question is how Houston's backcourt would have handled Chicago's ridiculous perimeter defense. Teams had a hard time just getting the ball over halfcourt when the Bulls turned up the pressure. Could Kenny Smith and Sam Cassell have gotten the job done?

[Thunder Dan]

It's hard to give a when your still making it in your pampers young'un.

Summer of 1995 I was beatin off to CJ Parker on Baywatch, not watching the ty Rockets beat the ty Magic

[Many PackYao]

Summer of 1995 I was beatin off to CJ Parker on Baywatch, not watching the ty Rockets beat the ty Magic

That proves how much you know whether they were underrated or not. Anyways, the Cavs were not worth watchin' back then so I could see how you were off doing other things.

[poop]

Wow...the same old tired arguments in these debates. It's funny that they still need to be shattered.

Myth: The Rockets only won because Jordan was retired.

Fact: Jordan played in 1995. His team lost because they didn't have a PF (theirs played on the team that eliminated them). I don't think you will find too many le teams that have their SF and SG leading them in rebounds.

Myth: 95 Jordan was rusty and wasn't the same.

Fact: 95 Jordan put up better numbers than he did in the 2nd 3-peat. But as last years Lakers showed the world, if you can't control the paint you can't win. All of Jordan's le teams had great interior defense. That wasn't the case in 95.

Myth: The Rockets would not have stood a chance against Chicago.

Fact: The Rockets had a winning record against those Bulls, BECAUSE THEY HAD NO ONE WHO COULD CONTAIN HAKEEM. Again, the Rockets usually beat Chicago. Hakeem also dominated the paint and was able to focus on help defense since Chicago didn't have any pivot worth holding.

Fact: The teams that gave the Bulls the most trouble had centers. The Knicks took them to 7 games with Ewing. The Magic beat them with Shaq. The Pacers took them to 7 with Smits. None of these players were as good as Hakeem on either side of the ball. None of these teams had a dude that could close games like Hakeem could.

Now if your claim is Houston couldn't beat Chicago, at least try to stop with the "MJ was God" arguments and address these points of mine:

1) Who was going to hold Hakeem. No seriously, who the was going to hold Hakeem. He put up 29 a night in the 94 playoffs, and dropped 27 a night in the Finals against a trio of Ewing, Oakley and Mason. He did this on 50% shooting, in a defensvie series where his team only averaged 86 ppg. That's providing 31% of the teams offense against a great defensive frontcourt!! And while doing that, he held Ewing to 19 ppg on 36%. In the 95 playoffs he put up 33 a night. That's more than MJ put up in 4 of his 6 le years. In other words...Hakeem could churn points just like Jordan...and I would argue he was doing it against better defenders. We all know how he torched the Robinson/Rodman combo (while holding Robinson on the other end). He put up 33 a game on Shaq as well, while also holding him on the other end. Yet, I am supposed to believe that he could be contained by any pivot the Bulls could throw at him...even the undersized Dennis Rodman??? Especially considering that he doesn't have to hold any of those dudes on the other side of the court. For those that don't get it...if you can drop 30 a night while checking a great center....life get's easier for you when you face up against worst defensive frontcourts....that also can't score against you on the other end.

2) The Rockets won by either having Hakeem or Clyde score (mainly Hakeem), or by hitting open three pointers. That means to beat them, you have to either hope you can neutralize Hakeem or that dudes are missing 3's. It's clear as day that no one from the Bulls could stop Hakeem....and the Rockets weren't missing 3's that postseason (Drexler-30%, Horry-40%, Cassell-40%, Smith-44%, Elie-43%, Chilcutt-39%).

3) I kinda already covered this one but I wanna point it out again. You are taking arguably the best defensive center ever (he is in the convo), an athletic freak like Robinson with the speed to chase down guards and insane shotblocking ability and recovery time....and putting him in a series where he doesn't have to hold anyone and letting him just sit in the lane and play help defense???? Do you not wonder why we used to routinely beat Chicago? At least the Sonics had centers that could camp out at the 3 point line and draw Hakeem out of the paint...but the Bulls had no one worth paying attention to.

Now that 96 Bulls team was one of the greatest that I ever saw. I'm not sure anyone could have beaten them with the way they were playing that year (i.e. they didn't play the same way in 97 or 98). But in 95 the Rockets simply would not die...so I don't know.

But at least argue with some valid points and not just the "MJ is great" garbage....

VERY WELL SAID. once people get past the 'jordan = god' who neutralized 12 players by himself nonsense they would realise Hakeem put up even bigger numbers and was even more dominant that year -against superior compe ion- than was jordan

[sook]

Th 95 Rockets team didnt play other great teams, so your argument is weak. As far as clutch, I would say you have a debate. But they were far from underrated. Thye were a sixth seed that no one saw coming. They were rated right where they were.

Shaqs Lakers
Magics Lakers
Birds Celtics
Duncans/Robinsons Spurs
Jordans Bulls
Thomas's Pistons
Dr. J's 83 Sixers

Would have all easily handled that 95 Rockets team.

Shaq's lakers? ROFL, i think Shaq already has some bad memories against Hakeem, and it would be the same result as last time.

Birds Celtics? Maybe, maybe not.

Duncan/Robinson's spurs? Wtf? No way, Robinson got abused by Hakeem, even he said so

Jordan's bulls, depends on which team you're talking about. 95' and the years before the Bulls were getting handled pretty bad by the rockets, just not a good mathup for them. 96' team, toss up in 7.


Lakaluva you are a great poster but comeon

[kingmalaki]

Question isn't what MJ or Hakeem would do. Those guys would get theirs. Question is how Houston's backcourt would have handled Chicago's ridiculous perimeter defense. Teams had a hard time just getting the ball over halfcourt when the Bulls turned up the pressure. Could Kenny Smith and Sam Cassell have gotten the job done?

Thank you for a valid basketball argument.

I don't think this would have been an issue for the Rockets because they ran a small team around Hakeem and every starter could handle the ball (Smith, Drexler, Elie and Horry AND PASS. You beat a press with passing. Cassell is a very good ball handler as well. Additionally, it's not like they asked anyone besides Drexler to create his own shot. They just dumped it into Hakeem and waited for an open jumper. So again, can you stop Hakeem without giving up open shots?

[Flo-Rida]

2004 pistons

[kingmalaki]

Th 95 Rockets team didnt play other great teams, so your argument is weak. As far as clutch, I would say you have a debate. But they were far from underrated. Thye were a sixth seed that no one saw coming. They were rated right where they were.

Shaqs Lakers
Magics Lakers
Birds Celtics
Duncans/Robinsons Spurs
Jordans Bulls
Thomas's Pistons
Dr. J's 83 Sixers

Would have all easily handled that 95 Rockets team.

The 94/95 Rockets beat the same teams the Bulls beat for their les, with the exception of the 91 Blazers, 91 Lakers and the Sonics...who had our number. They beat the same Knicks, Suns and Jazz teams...and a very good San Antonio team.

So this argument really isn't very valid.

[scanry]

VERY WELL SAID. once people get past the 'jordan = god' who neutralized 12 players by himself nonsense they would realise Hakeem put up even bigger numbers and was even more dominant that year -against superior compe ion- than was jordan

Superior my ass...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jordami01.html

Just scroll down to Playoffs on that site and see for yourself.

The man averaged 33.4/6.4/5.7 over a 13 year span.

BTW his rookie stat line was 29.3/5.6/8.5!!!

As a matter of fact, Jordan was underrated considering the stifling defense & the hand checking rules back in those days.

[scanry]

Shaq's lakers? ROFL, i think Shaq already has some bad memories against Hakeem, and it would be the same result as last time.

Birds Celtics? Maybe, maybe not.

Duncan/Robinson's spurs? Wtf? No way, Robinson got abused by Hakeem, even he said so

Jordan's bulls, depends on which team you're talking about. 95' and the years before the Bulls were getting handled pretty bad by the rockets, just not a good mathup for them. 96' team, toss up in 7.


Lakaluva you are a great poster but comeon

Shaq was with Penny for crying out loud. You think with Kobe as his sidekick, the Rockets would stand a chance?

The Shaq-Kobe would've easily beaten them with Phil coaching the Lakers. Duncan-Robinson would've beaten them too. The Jordan Bulls would've swept the Rockets.

As great and unstoppable as Hakkem was, Jordan was a lot better.

Robinson isn't exactly a Duncan, and i like our chances with Duncan as the protagonist.

BTW the Jordan Bulls stepped up a notch in the post season. Their defense was always better in the post season. If you think some meaningless regular season games count, then i can't really argue with you.

[ambchang]

thats debatable. He was playing better because he was aside Kobe, but he was not a better player. That rockets team was built solid from head to toe just look at the roster. Big names like Otis Thorpe who was an all star, sam cassel, and Vernon Maxwell who shut Jordan down on a n number of occasions

If memory serves me well, Otis Thorpe was traded for Drexler, and Maxwell was kicked off the team after acting like a nutcase.

Exactly, it used to be a Jordan vs Drexler thing like it is Lebron vs Kobe.
Jordan just outplayed him in the finals and it was put to rest. But he was considered the 2nd best SG

No it wasn’t. Drexler was, and always will be considered a tier below Jordan. Drexler was a late edition to the original dream team along with Laettner, he was 2nd in MVP voting to Jordan, he was demolished in 92 in the Finals against Jordan, and didn’t fare well head to head in the other outings (and that was in his prime, we are talking about 95 here, when Drexler wasn’t anything close to his prime years).

Russell and Wilt were from a different time, the game has progressed so far today that it's no longer even comparable. Jabbar maybe, though, but I still like Hakeem simply because he dominated both sides of the ball like never before seen. Only Hakeem could run down a guard on the fast break and block his shot, then dribble back down the court and score through traffic.

Then you obviously have never seen Wilt and Russell play, nor Robinson, or even Dwight Howard for that matter. All those guys could easily catch up with guards, block their shot, and dribble down court for a score in traffic. Jabbar was dominant defensively as well.

1. Olajuwon WAS the best center ever, he played in the Era of great centers and he flat dominated all of them. wilt, russell were great no doubt, but pu akeem in their Era and he would get their numbers too, put russell in Today and you'd have tim duncan.
2. Drexler in '95 WAS as good as jordan. every bit. no doubt. interchangable. he just had to defer to Hakeem so he wasn't 'the man'. but his ability and contributions were jordanesque.
3. the '96 bulls would have no answer for hakeem, and drexler would have matched jordan. horry would have given pippen trouble.

So much wrong I don’t know where to begin. Hakeem dominated different centers once in a while. Overall, he didn’t do as well against Robinson through their careers. He was clearly superior to Ewing in head to heads, and has a slight advantage to Shaq when head to head. Look it up.
Russell never had the offensive polish of Duncan. And Russell was miles ahead on defense. Two extremely different players. It’s like saying Barkley is the new Gervin because they were both great forwards.
Drexler in 95 wasn’t even as good as Drexler in 92. He was even taking a back seat to Cliff Robinson during his last days in Portland. This isn’t even funny. Drexler suffered from injuries the last few years, and he no longer was as quick or as athletic as his younger days.
The last paragraph is pure speculation, but saying Horry would have given Pippen trouble in the context of Horry neutralizing Pippen is just asinine. Pippen ate a 75% Worthy alive in 91, and Pippen in 96 was way better than Pippen in 91. Worthy would have destroyed Horry on one leg.
Finally, people don’t realize that the two years the Rockets won the championship were the years the 3-point line was shortened. This is NOT a coincidence, as the Rockets offense was to surround Hakeem with great 3 pt shooters. Credit Hakeem for making crisp passes to the perimeter when he got double teamed (which is pretty much all the time), and credit the shooters for having quick releases, but this was a team that had benefited from a set of rules that catered to them hugely.

[baseline bum]

If Jordan scores 35 and Hakeem scores 35, in a more efficient manner...then doesn't the advantage go to Houston? Again, in the 95 Playoffs Hakeem put up 33 a game on 53%. Can you find me one of MJ's le postseason runs where he put up 33 a night on 53%...since no one could stop Jordan? No, you can't. MJ put up more points than Hakeem's 33 in two of those le seasons, but always at a lower FG%.

I'll take Jordan's 91 playoffs over Olajuwon's 95:

Jordan91:
GAMES: 17
PPG: 31.1
FG%: 52.4
FT%: 84.5
RPG: 6.4
APG: 8.4
SPG: 2.4
BPG: 1.4
TOPG: 2.5
EFF: 35.1

Olajuwon95:
GAMES: 22
PPG: 33.0
FG%: 53.1
FT%: 68.1
RPG: 10.3
APG: 4.5
SPG: 1.2
BPG: 2.8
TOPG: 3.3
EFF: 33.8

[SpursDynasty]

The '95 Rockets were okay...they just showed up to play. I think the league kind of thought that everything would come easy without the MJ Bulls....so, most teams took it easy and a 6th seeded team won the NBA Championship. They just wanted it more than anyone else. The 2008 G.S. Warriors had a better regular season record than these guys. So, it goes to show that when no one cares, anyone can show up, make their shots, and win a championship. Without M.J. in the league, easy task...so, credit is due for their championship, but they aren't in the top 10 teams of all time.

[kingmalaki]

I'll take Jordan's 91 playoffs over Olajuwon's 95:

Jordan91:
GAMES: 17
PPG: 31.1
FG%: 52.4
FT%: 84.5
RPG: 6.4
APG: 8.4
SPG: 2.4
BPG: 1.4
TOPG: 2.5
EFF: 35.1

Olajuwon95:
GAMES: 22
PPG: 33.0
FG%: 53.1
FT%: 68.1
RPG: 10.3
APG: 4.5
SPG: 1.2
BPG: 2.8
TOPG: 3.3
EFF: 33.8

Hmm, so you would take a player scoring less points, on a worse FG%....over a player scoring more points on a better FG%???? I won't even mention the overall impact a defensive pivot has over a defensive wing.

Additionally, please show me the wings assigned to stop MJ in 91, and the folks he had to defend on the other end. Because my point is if Hakeem can drop 33 a game on 53% on Robinson/Rodman and Shaq/Grant....while holding them on the other side....then I would naturally assume he could do better against the Bulls big's (i.e. MUCH worse defenders), when he doesn't have to focus on any of them defensively. Again, Hakeem wouldn't have to spend any time checking any pivot from any of those Bulls le teams...and you are allowing one of the best and most athletic defenders to basically roam all game long. Do you really not see the logic in this argument?

It's also hilarious to read all these "MJ always stepped up...MJ was so unstoppable then" quotes....when MJ scored less than Hakeem did in every Finals run but 2....and in those 2 he shot a worse %. But I guess his PPG matter more because his last name in Jordan....

[kingmalaki]

That Houston team was a fluke team with a bunch of no name players that happened to gel at the right time. No way they would have challenged any of the teams on my list. The Bulls were far superior to the teams you listed that were supposed to be contenders.

How were they a fluke team when they were the defending champions? What team flukes two years in a row? Silly argument. And the last time I checked, I didn't know Hakeem (HOF), Drexler (HOF), Horry (7 rings..Mr. Clutch), or Cassell (also very clutch) were no name players. Just because Horry and Cassell were young doesn't mean they were scrubs.

Houston went into that season not knowing where they would be. Hakeem alsmost got traded the year before. Horry almost got traded for Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_. Cassell was a rookie. Kenny Smith had a career year, and Ellie, Smith, and the rest of those guys were nobodies.

You obviously are clueless on the subject (said in a non offensive way). Hakeem was almost traded before the 92/93 season...and there really was no almost because there was no serious deal. That's like saying Kobe almost got traded last year. Horry was traded in the 93/94 season. Cassell was in his 2nd yr in 95. Elie was unknown but that doesn't mean he sucked. Bynum was technically a "nobody" before he blew up last season...it doesn't diminish his impact when he played.

I would say Hakeem had the best playoffs run in the history of the sport, hands down, but that team would have got drug against one of the great teams I mentioned.

It's cool to have that opinion. But you still have yet to support your argument with anything besides "Houston would not beat these teams".

[kingmalaki]

Superior my ass...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jordami01.html

Just scroll down to Playoffs on that site and see for yourself.

The man averaged 33.4/6.4/5.7 over a 13 year span.

BTW his rookie stat line was 29.3/5.6/8.5!!!

As a matter of fact, Jordan was underrated considering the stifling defense & the hand checking rules back in those days.

He meant superior defensive attention than MJ faced, in those season. Unless you can show us MJ going through 3 of the top 7 at his position in history on his way to les...similar to Hakeem going through Ewing/Robinson/Shaq. The point is if he can destroy those 3 why could he not do the same to Will Perdue or Bill Cartwright???

No one is saying Hakeem > MJ. We know no one could stop Jordan. No one has yet to show us how the Bulls could have stopped Hakeem. He was putting up MJ numbers against great bigs. It's not that complex....

[poop]

1. Jordan DID PLAY in '95, put up huge numbers, and got beat by the same Magic team that Houston SWEPT that year.

2. the '95 Rockets werent a 'fluke', they were the DEFENDING CHAMPIONS, having beat a Knicks team that gave the bulls fits the year before.

3. the teams they played certainly did 'care', ask stockton, malone, or barkley if they wanted to win that season.

[slayermin]

I hate to say it, but that team was amazing. They probably are the most underrated team ever. But I don't think they could have beaten every championship team in a seven game series. They certainly would make it interesting against them all.