A present for fiscal conservatives and anybody else

[LnGrrrR]

My wife is a Biochemistry Professor - with a capital B. Undergrad B.S. in both Chemistry AND Biology; Ph.D. from Texas A&M in Biochemistry.

When she took the sciences in school she was taught by Biologists and Chemists, who took and passed the real science classes in college. Today, the VAST majority of students are taught by Education majors with an emphasis in this or the other. They don't take the "Real" science classes - the ones the pre-med and graduate bound students take. They take a few watered down versions; but mostly education classes. I guess they can "teach", but they aren't passionate, or even particularly good at the subject they are teaching; probably don't even recognize the students coming through their classes who might be predisposed to a career in the sciences; much less are they able to inspire and nurture them.

Finally, when the students get through high school, and enter college and go to take that Chem 101 class; they are, for the most part, disiterested, and WORSE convinced that it is simply TOOO hard; they accept their inability to NOT learn the subject matter, and move on. She just graded the 2nd test of the semester for 102 (2nd semester Chem 1) class; the average was a 47! I took the test (I was a liberal arts major; and took the "baby" classes myself 20 years ago) - I made a 66! She teaches a medium sized state school up here in PA - roughly equivalent to UTSA in admittance standard.

Oh, and don't forget computers. LOTS of those science led - geeky minds have gone that direction.

Right, but what factor(s) are leading to a changing in the teaching profession, in this case?

Why would schools, who would formerly hire biologists and chemists to teach those courses, to cut corners? Is it money? If so, why are they worried about money now and not in the past?

I guess I'd just like clear policies/points in time to look to that would show a marked decrease... even if they don't exist.

[RandomGuy]

In the school district my kids are in; next year's starting salary for teachers is over 50K; with 20 years service, they make nearly 6 figures - all teachers, all levels, regardless of subject; k-12.

That's for 9 months work. I think you are on to something; when people realize HOW much teachers are actually getting paid now (after all 2 of them married; 20 years in are "rich" by Obama standards) - compe ion might actually increase.

There are some indications that is actually happening.

Personally, I think a lot of science and engineering degrees should be free to anybody who makes the grades. Maybe throw in a teaching requirement that says you have to teach for 4 years after getting the degree.

, I have a job/degree, and that kind of deal would tempt me...

My wife is studying biology to be a science teacher (don't get her started on the evolution/creation threads), and they are giving her some incentives already. Hope she stays on the deans list, so we can soak up some extra grants or scholarships.

[RandomGuy]

The funny thing is, Obama is trying to ram business in the ass for stacking the cheese while having ty performance, yet Government doesn't have to run the country like a business. They can spend, get no results, have no accountability, and print more money to enjoy more ups all while stuffing their pockets.

Thanks for the link RG.

You're welcome.

I don't quite agree with everything in the website, most notably they favor a lot of coal production/usage, and seem to discount heavy usage of renewables.

Personally, I don't think they read much about how fast the technology is moving in that area (renewables) to bring costs down. That is the danger of true conservatism, i.e. things may actually fundamentally change on you occasionally.

[101A]

Right, but what factor(s) are leading to a changing in the teaching profession, in this case?

Why would schools, who would formerly hire biologists and chemists to teach those courses, to cut corners? Is it money? If so, why are they worried about money now and not in the past?

I guess I'd just like clear policies/points in time to look to that would show a marked decrease... even if they don't exist.

The education degrees didn't use to exist as they do now; you were a biology major first; then got a teaching certificate. Then "education" became a science in and of itself. I don't know why, frankly - might be related to the strength of teacher's unions - certain disciplines got paid at a higher clip than others; now they are all equalized. Don't know how the cycle started, or when.

Might have something to do with women's rights - and I'm not criticizing, just pointing out a possible consequence. Used to be that the best and brightest women were restricted in the jobs they held (in practice if not in policy); so the teachers produced in the 50's and 60's were very, very bright people; those people in the 80's, with barriers coming down, were able to gain acceptance in medical schools, graduate schools, etc (my wife a case in point) - so the gap was filled underneath by people of less ability....

complete B.S. off the top of my head; just discussing.

[101A]

...

My wife is studying biology to be a science teacher (don't get her started on the evolution/creation threads), and they are giving her some incentives already. Hope she stays on the deans list, so we can soak up some extra grants or scholarships.

If she can get into medical school DO IT....regardless of cost and time; pays for itself thousands of times over. Even the most basic docs are well into the 6 figure incomes; specialists routinely break 7.

[RandomGuy]

If she can get into medical school DO IT....regardless of cost and time; pays for itself thousands of times over. Even the most basic docs are well into the 6 figure incomes; specialists routinely break 7.

I raised the possibility with her. She wasn't at all interested.

She isn't really all that interested in teaching either, she just wants a steady job that will let us finally bank some $$$.

She is smart, and capable in math and science, but still doesn't quite know what to do with that.

[DarrinS]

I raised the possibility with her. She wasn't at all interested.

She isn't really all that interested in teaching either, she just wants a steady job that will let us finally bank some $$$.

She is smart, and capable in math and science, but still doesn't quite know what to do with that.

I wish I had considered med school before I had a family. My sister is a ophthalmologist and she does quite well for herself. Doesn't hurt that her husband is a podiatrist. There are plenty of specialties that are relatively low-stress and don't require 60-hour work weeks. Can't say there's no stress involved in actually going through med school and the internship. I can only imagine that it's a HUGE commitment.

[spurster]

Some random points:

1. Education is being subject to increasing standards because work is continuing to shift from physical work to knowledge work. People who dropped out 100 years ago could get work, but now people who drop out can't get work, and show the "failure" of our system.

2. I think programs like No Child Left Behind put too much emphasis on the lower 25% or so and not enough on the upper 25%.

3. I think there is not enough emphasis on the basics: reading, writing, and arithmetic.

4. When I went to high school, taking 4 to 5 subjects was typical, now students need to take 6 to 7 subjects to satisfy state requirements. The result is that none/few of the classes can make the students work their tail off. Students often don't have a real class until college and maybe not even then depending on the major and college.

5. A culture that shuns intelligence is not helpful.

6. Businesses doing their best to move knowledge work offshore is not helpful, especially when they then complain about the quality of our education.

[101A]

I raised the possibility with her. She wasn't at all interested.

She isn't really all that interested in teaching either, she just wants a steady job that will let us finally bank some $$$.

She is smart, and capable in math and science, but still doesn't quite know what to do with that.

Nursing School. R.N. is 60K minimum these days; and LOTS AND LOTS of available jobs; low stress, high stress; it's all there. Hospitals, nursing homes, med clinics, insurance companies (case management/call center); lots of opportunities; and more every day with the baby boomers aging; recession proof, as well.

Also, lab tech - at the medical center; but LOTS of compe ion from masters, and even Ph.D. level Asians on work visas; really drives the price down for those positions. When my wife was there right after graduate school, she was pulling in all of 26K.

[DarrinS]

Nursing School. R.N. is 60K minimum these days; and LOTS AND LOTS of available jobs; low stress, high stress; it's all there. Hospitals, nursing homes, med clinics, insurance companies (case management/call center); lots of opportunities; and more every day with the baby boomers aging; recession proof, as well.

Also, lab tech - at the medical center; but LOTS of compe ion from masters, and even Ph.D. level Asians on work visas; really drives the price down for those positions. When my wife was there right after graduate school, she was pulling in all of 26K.

A nurse will never be out of a job.


EDIT> A "good" nurse.

[RandomGuy]

Nursing School. R.N. is 60K minimum these days; and LOTS AND LOTS of available jobs; low stress, high stress; it's all there. Hospitals, nursing homes, med clinics, insurance companies (case management/call center); lots of opportunities; and more every day with the baby boomers aging; recession proof, as well.

Also, lab tech - at the medical center; but LOTS of compe ion from masters, and even Ph.D. level Asians on work visas; really drives the price down for those positions. When my wife was there right after graduate school, she was pulling in all of 26K.

She was actually shooting for nursing school at UT a decade or so back, and that is where she got the majority of her credits.

She wasn't accepted because she had a bad semester where she just lost interest in college for whatever reason, and stopped going to classes. That lost semester or two from when she was 18 or 19 haunts her still.

She has since decided NOT to become a nurse in any event, even if she could get into a program.