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you don't read much about theories of the universe, do you.
LOL, string theory.
you are an idiot.
Yes...that's what I said.
C'mon.
I posed a hypothetical question...no leap was made. If you don't want to answer it, don't answer it. But don't assume a leap was made where I equated getting laid to everything else. That never happened, and it was quite a leap of your own to try and come to that conclusion.
you don't read much about theories of the universe, do you.
LOL, string theory.
you are an idiot.
Nothing wrong with casual sex or drug use.
a Theory needs actual observation, experiment... something to substantiate it so that it can become a valid scientific theory. it's not just guessing.
String theory, as of now, has barely any, if any at all, valid quan ative evidence.
so as of now, we don't build churches and live our lives based on string theory.
"LOL"
alright blake, welcome to ignore. you throw the word idiot around and have no proof or arguments, you behave like an immature teen.
Last edited by MiamiHeat; 04-30-2009 at 07:04 PM.
Is that not the same as my hypothetical brainwashed man whose brain cannot process sin?
Honestly, I'd vote no. One, because I like liberty, and that would deny such.
Two, it doesn't make sense on the face of it. If God didn't want us to do such, why put it there? To test us? I might accept that theory if the 'punishment' was something milder than eternal torment.
If I leave out a cookie that my son knows he is not supposed to eat, sure, he might get punished. But I'm not going to ground him forever. He doesn't have the INTELLIGENCE/KNOWLEDGE to understand the future ramifications of his actions, in my opinion.
I love Me Some Me :
Are animals evil for raping each other? Male cats rape female cats, apes, dogs, it's very common. It's just a natural way of reproduction that has gone on forever.
We are no different, for we are animals. The only problem is, we are more advanced, so we recognized rape = hurt people, bad for economy, bad for family structures, bad for everyone.... and we don't live like animals.
That is where 'evil' comes from. It's 'human' behavior that we recognized is bad for us.
Your concept of 'good' and 'evil' is just a natural evolution of human societal interaction.
Not some ridiculous supernatural concept. Really, if God made your world, then why aren't the animals perfect?
Last edited by MiamiHeat; 04-30-2009 at 07:22 PM.
I'm not open to change my mind about that. But you're talking in hypotheticals not factuals. The fact is...the entire Bible and religion in general is that there doesn't have to be any convincing demonstration of the existence of god. That's not what these things speak to.
They speak about and live off of something entirely different. Remove all facts, logic, and science and religion falls apart...any religion does. But as stated before that's not the point of religion. It's about faith.
The thing that always worries me and I simply can't stand is proselytizing. I can't stand people like angel_luv, phenomenaul and the likes...they make me sick. Too busy worrying about peoples religion and not enough caring about something deeper than that. Angel_luv especially an at ude like I (for example) being an atheist have to have something inherently wrong with me or I'm broken or I need to be saved and pitied. That's what really bugs me.
Look up what brainwashing is, and explain to me how it's the same as what I described.
1. Rather selfish, don't you think?1. Honestly, I'd vote no. One, because I like liberty, and that would deny such.
2. Two, it doesn't make sense on the face of it. If God didn't want us to do such, why put it there? To test us? I might accept that theory if the 'punishment' was something milder than eternal torment.
3. If I leave out a cookie that my son knows he is not supposed to eat, sure, he might get punished. But I'm not going to ground him forever. He doesn't have the INTELLIGENCE/KNOWLEDGE to understand the future ramifications of his actions, in my opinion.
2. It's there to give you the free will that is seemingly so important. Also, he doesn't what a bunch of cloned robots serving him because he's the only option. He wants you to follow him because you've chosen to do so.
3. No, you offer him forgiveness. But what about the second time...or the third....or the seventeenth....or the hundredth? You'll still forgive him, but the consequences will probably be greater after the hundredth occurrence than they were the first time. At some point you'd think he'd learn that he shouldn't eat the cookie, right?
????
I've personally tried to convince you to change your mind??? When???
I've always valued people's decision to believe what they want... You deserve no pity, judgement, praise, or condemnation on my part as long as as you treat me with the same consideration...
For that matter, why would you condemn me for standing up for my beliefs, as if I had no voice in the matter??? Again, another subtle double standard of "do as I say, not as I do"...
Look... I've no jurisdiction to cast judgement over how you choose to live your life... Why then would you then criticize me for defending the way I live mine??? I don't knock on your door... bother you during lunch, at school, work or any other place... So how have I proselytized you?
Any attempt to solicit empathy from the 'tolerance' crowd by suggesting that all Christians are judgemental only goes as far as the person (or the motives) making the claim. You think that Christians aren't constantly belittled by the athiest agenda that tries to suggest that our belief in GOD equates to 'lack of intelligence'??? Those two concepts are mutually exclusive, and nevertheless you all constantly insult us with that assumption. You said it yourself... and take it as a given.
Personally I don't care about your beliefs... you're grown-up and free to believe whatever you wish... No one is forcing you to believe what I believe. You've made your decision and I've made mine. You want respect??? How about you extend us the same courtesy...
Nothing personal...
Last edited by Phenomanul; 05-01-2009 at 12:18 AM.
The change in energy is porportional to the change in mass mutliplied by the speed of light to the second power.
Show your work or you get no points.
before birth, all animals with backbones—including humans—pass through a stage of development in which they have gill clefts. This fact suggests that these animals are descended from organisms that once lived in water
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4067039.stm
That's right. All human fetuses essentially go through a phase with fish gills during development.
I took the other way round, from hard core atheist to agnostic, and Im pretty relaxed, but lookin at the stars and stuff, there could be somethin, jus not human.
Alright, let's replace the word 'brainwashed' with 'hypnotized' and we'll assume the person volunteered themselves. This would be analagous, correct?
If a person were to go to the best hypnotist in the world and volunteer themselves to be hypnotized, with the request that he could no longer think/do/create sin, would this be analagous enough for you?
If so, would you consider the man after hypnotizing to have free will?
1) Liberty is selfish?
2) Which I'm fine with, assuming that the punishment isn't everlasting damnation.
3) Yes, he should probably learn. But only if I DO punish him. However, let's say I'm 'denying' God. I have never seen any explicit punishment from God. Now say I die, and even though I've led a good life, I haven't believed. Do I deserve eternal torment, even if I did not feel/see/experience any sort of heavenly rebuke? (And please don't say, "You've been rebuked, you just don't know it", as that's kinda my whole point. Not being explicitly punished for a lack of belief would make the eternal torment thing a bit unfair.)
I already answered this...I say NO. But I'm not talking about God tricking everyone (through hypnotics or brainwashing) into thinking He's taken care of evil. I'm talking about a heaven with no evil, in reality not in someone's imagination.Alright, let's replace the word 'brainwashed' with 'hypnotized' and we'll assume the person volunteered themselves. This would be analagous, correct?
If a person were to go to the best hypnotist in the world and volunteer themselves to be hypnotized, with the request that he could no longer think/do/create sin, would this be analagous enough for you?
If so, would you consider the man after hypnotizing to have free will?
your "waterboarding is easy" theory has no quan ative evidence, especially since you have never been waterboarded, but you still went several pages trying to convince everyone it is.
by your logic, waterboarding is not easy no matter how many times you act like an immature teen calling someone else a pussy for not trying it.
Goddam, you are one focking idiot.
"LOL"
1. so what's the point of living then if liberty is taken away? Might as well just live in a cage for the rest of your healthy, non harmed life.
2. but once you get into heaven, the way you are describing existence would make us nothing more than pets
3. you offer the kid forgiveness after punishment. The kid gets punished for taking the 1st cookie, then he most likely never reaches the 100th time.
After the 1st time someone commits adultery, God doesn't stick the person in for a "timeout" and then lets him go back to earth, having learned his lesson.
1. Liberty is not selfish. The desire to continue things like rape, torture, and abuse so you can still get your drink is selfish.1) Liberty is selfish?
2) Which I'm fine with, assuming that the punishment isn't everlasting damnation.
3) Yes, he should probably learn. But only if I DO punish him. However, let's say I'm 'denying' God. I have never seen any explicit punishment from God. Now say I die, and even though I've led a good life, I haven't believed. Do I deserve eternal torment, even if I did not feel/see/experience any sort of heavenly rebuke? (And please don't say, "You've been rebuked, you just don't know it", as that's kinda my whole point. Not being explicitly punished for a lack of belief would make the eternal torment thing a bit unfair.
2. What should the final judgement be? 3 years probation and community service? We're talking about a God who has created everything. A God who offerred his only son as sacrifice for your mistakes. He watched that son get physically abused in horrible ways. He watched that son die a horrific death by crucifixion. At amoment's notice, He could have stepped in and stopped that death. At His word, his son would be spared. But because of His love for you, He watched His son die this death. Because of you, He forsake His son...because he wants you avoid the eternal damnation. All He asks in return is that you believe in the son that he allowed to be sacrificed for you.
And you say "no" to his face, and expect a light sentence?
3. See above....He only asks that you believe. But look at the brightside...you'll have eternal torment, but at least you'll still have the free will to bang whoever you want!
1. No one ever said liberty was taken away. YOU have drawn that conclusion (incorrectly, BTW). You just don't like God's definition of evil.
I can't believe people are trying to talk themselves into believing that
heaven will be this horrible place.
2. You'll have to elaborate on how you equate heaven to a giant kennel for God's pets. What is it exactly that you'd like to be able to do there?
3. You're not sent to because of the horrible things you've done, just like you don't get to heaven because of the good things you've done. You don't get eternal damnation for cheating on your wife or for eating the 100th cookie. Hence, the sacrifice of His son...so that these acts can be forgotten, and you can avoid the damnation at the end. All you have to do in believe. If you don't, that's when the eternal damnation comes in.
I don't know how you came up with these standards, but comparing drinking a couple of beers to rape and torture is beyond ridiculous.
if he is omniscient and knows before he makes me that I am going to , then why make me to begin with?2. What should the final judgement be? 3 years probation and community service? We're talking about a God who has created everything. A God who offerred his only son as sacrifice for your mistakes. He watched that son get physically abused in horrible ways. He watched that son die a horrific death by crucifixion. At amoment's notice, He could have stepped in and stopped that death. At His word, his son would be spared. But because of His love for you, He watched His son die this death. Because of you, He forsake His son...because he wants you avoid the eternal damnation. All He asks in return is that you believe in the son that he allowed to be sacrificed for you.
And you say "no" to his face, and expect a light sentence?
and true or false: Jews go to Heaven
If I'm in Heaven and I know that someone I loved very much went to , would I have the free will to trade places with that person?3. See above....He only asks that you believe. But look at the brightside...you'll have eternal torment, but at least you'll still have the free will to bang whoever you want!
True or false: once in heaven, will I have the free will to try to take over Heaven like Lucifer did?
will greed and envy not be capable?
Again, the you describe people in heaven, it's as if they are nothing more than pets.
what's so good about it?I can't believe people are trying to talk themselves into believing that
heaven will be this horrible place.
are you kidding me?2. You'll have to elaborate on how you equate heaven to a giant kennel for God's pets. What is it exactly that you'd like to be able to do there?
what makes life worth living down here if Heaven is so much better?
James 2:243. You're not sent to because of the horrible things you've done, just like you don't get to heaven because of the good things you've done. You don't get eternal damnation for cheating on your wife or for eating the 100th cookie. Hence, the sacrifice of His son...so that these acts can be forgotten, and you can avoid the damnation at the end. All you have to do in believe. If you don't, that's when the eternal damnation comes in.
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone
1. Read carefully...I've never compared the two. What I'm doing is pointing out that the problem of evil exists on many levels. Clearly, rape and torturing children are evil. But in God's eyes, so is sex between anyone other than a married heterosexual couple. So if we expect Him to defeat evil, you'll see no more rape and torture, but you'll also see no more of a lot of minor things that are evil in His eyes. It's those minor things that most people (including you) don't want Him to deal with. You'd like to be able to define what is evil and what isn't.
2. You were created to annoy people on message boards! Kidding, kind of....but just because you don't choose to believe does not mean you don't have purpose while you're here. Do you kids? Maybe they'll grow up to believe, and to convince others to believe. Maybe that was your purpose.
As far as who gets in and who doesn't, the qualifications are simple: "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shall be saved."
3. No, but not because of a lack of free will, but because of a lack of authority. It's simply not your call.
If someone you love is convicted of a crime and sentenced to prison right now on earth, can you just ask the judge to let the criminal free and put you in the slammer instead?
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