What if they can't add enough to TD, TP, and Manu to be serious contenders? Expecting a series of transactions that transforms our ineffective, loudly condemned, bench into a championship supporting cast is very optimistic.
Do you spend the next three years fighting for a playoff spot and exiting in the first round and then rebuild after Tony has left in 2011 and Tim retires in 2012?
IMO, if the Spurs conclude that they cannot add enough to the Big 3 to challenge the Lakers, Cavs, and Celtics (not to mention the Rockets, Nuggets, Magic, and Blazers) they will have to consider trading their best assets. That means Tony or Manu.
The point of my post was that trading Tony for another elite player is an unlikely event. The only trade I would consider for Tony is one that brings upgrades at several positions in return. In the Portland example, the Spurs could get a package that includes several of the players from this group: Frye, Outlaw, Webster, Fernandez, Batum, Rodriquez, Blake, Bayless. Three or four young players, draft picks, and cap flexibility could be attractive.
I'm by no means expecting 22pts and a hard 6ast. I'd be expecting avery johnson numbers. I'd expect 12pts , and a smooth 9ast with no turnovers. and sense calderon runs a good offense the spurs can get away with him not scoring, meaning duncan 20pts/10rbs/2blk - bargnani 15pts/5rb/1blk
and
I'm by no means expecting 22pts and a hard 6ast. I'd be expecting avery johnson numbers. I'd expect 12pts , and a smooth 9ast with no turnovers. and sense calderon runs a good offense the spurs can get away with him not scoring, meaning duncan 20pts/10rbs/2blk - bargnani 15pts/5rb/1blk
- manu - 15pts/4rbs/3ast - and we would have 2 shooters average near 10pts per game because calderon likes to hit shooters coming off screens unlike parker. we would also have a better fast break game with more guys involved instead of parker and a one man fast break. By the way im not a parker hater, the guy is incredible. Its just that the spurs need a real point guard who understands how to utilize other player better. ala cp3/d-will / rondo / calderon.
Right now Manu has no trade value so it'd be hard to trade him for anybody. I think it's more likely they'll let him go during free agency next year which I have no problem with even though he's my favorite player the way Pop was talking about replacing stars with stars.Manu is the one who needs to go to open up some salary for a reliable star. I would trade Manu in a package for a player like Caron Butler.
This is kind of where I am at. We could struggle the next 3 years and then lose parker for nothing. His trade value is at it's highest right now...
Why does everyone think TP will jump ship when hes an FA? I mean San Antonio groomed him into the player he is today, and maybe he took a lesson from TD as well? I don't know all this speculation just seems a bit arbitrary.
He will think eventually about that when Pop will retire
I think that unless you can get Roy or Aldridge, you don't do that deal.
It's a personal opinion, but I think that any time you trade a star/superstar and take back pieces, you've lost in the deal. LA's choice to deal Shaq to Miami for Odom/Butler/Grant is an example of that. Yeah, they got back some nice pieces if you looked at it on basketball-reference or something, but it clearly set them back for a few years. Odom has turned out to be a useful player to some good teams, but it took LA 3 full seasons and an inversion of the Shaq deal (Gasol for spare parts) to get back into contention.
I don't think it is pre-ordained that he will leave. But the Spurs have declined from 2007 to 2008 to 2009. If that decline continues until 2011 retaining Tony becomes much more problematic.
i would trade parker for harris and lopez. lopez will develop into a very good bigman in the next few years. obviously you trade a player when his value is highest, not when they start sucking. i always laugh whenever a player plays bad and all these trade threads come up. sell high, buy low. just ask the rockets. they bought scola low and the spurs traded him low. rockets win, spurs lose.
76ers. except they screwed it up by signing brand.
Parker is a beast. Duncan is a tired warrior . Manu is a hurt Warrior .
Mason, bonner , bowen , oberto , vaugn and kurt gotta go .
Imagine a lineup.
Pf- duncan / Gist
Sf - finley / Bowen
C - Bargnani / Mensah- bonsuh
Pg- calderon / Hill
Sg - Mason / Ginobili
to start A smooth offensive system with 2 big men/ 2 shooters/ and a good setup man . off the bench a solid slasher a solid defender and 3 young athletic guys. championship 5 baby!!!!!!!
I would trade him for CP3 straight up. Both are great scorers but CP3 would make things easier for Duncan and Ginobili and all others.
Parker is not that great at makings others look good.
Spurs do not need to add a lot to their bench, they need to add to their starters. If you can get Mason back to his comfortable role in the starting line-up and upgrade the starting center then that should be enough. If you can move Manu back to the bench and Bonner to the bench that would be effective enough.
Of course, this all depends on health.
Spurs weren't really fighting for a playoff spot this year and that was with Pop's worst year as a coach and a ton of injuries. Like I said, I do not think the team is that far off (upgrade a center and sf, allowing Tim to rest and Manu to move back to the bench).Do you spend the next three years fighting for a playoff spot and exiting in the first round and then rebuild after Tony has left in 2011 and Tim retires in 2012?
When Tim is gone, that is going to be devastating, but you can build around TP and throw max money at a player (Tim's money).
By this logic, why not trade Duncan/Ginobili? They are the oldest assests that can help a team get over the top, not to mention combined they have tradeable contracts where you can get actual value in return. Then you keep TP, put the players and draft picks around him then target bigger free agents.IMO, if the Spurs conclude that they cannot add enough to the Big 3 to challenge the Lakers, Cavs, and Celtics (not to mention the Rockets, Nuggets, Magic, and Blazers) they will have to consider trading their best assets. That means Tony or Manu.
You would need a superstar if you trade TP, or else you are wasting TD's last years. Then trading away a young asset makes no sense.The point of my post was that trading Tony for another elite player is an unlikely event. The only trade I would consider for Tony is one that brings upgrades at several positions in return. In the Portland example, the Spurs could get a package that includes several of the players from this group: Frye, Outlaw, Webster, Fernandez, Batum, Rodriquez, Blake, Bayless. Three or four young players, draft picks, and cap flexibility could be attractive.
That is a terrible line up for many reasons. That would easily be the worst defensive team in the Duncan era and they would struggle to score points.
You're probably right. I'm just not very optimistic that the Spurs can add enough this summer to compete with the elite teams of the NBA just by exchanging their current spare parts for different spare parts. Perhaps they can add enough this summer and next combined to get back on top.
I guess what I'm getting at is that the Spurs have stayed among the league's best teams for a longer period of time than any team in NBA history except for the Russell Celtics and the Showtime Lakers. Those teams both spent some time out of the playoffs before moving back up. If the Spurs can compete with the best for three more years, they will have done something that no team in NBA history has done before.
If they hold onto their core and descend into mediocrity anyway, the time on the outside looking in will be even longer.
If I was GM for a day, I would advocate a conservative approach this summer with smaller moves to get younger and more athletic. Then as the season proceeds towards the trade deadline, re-evaluate based on TD and Manu's health. With that information, decide whether to make bold moves at the trade deadline or preserve cap space for 2010. But what do I know?
Good luck to the FO, they'll need it.
Tony Parker isn't going to stick around through a rebuilding process -- and I don't think he should. Given his pedigree, his personal legacy in the NBA depends upon his being a part of teams that win and have a chance to win les. I don't think Tony Parker will put himself above team in that I don't think he'd be content to be a big numbers guy on a bad team; but I also don't think he's going to have much interest in playing for a bad team.
For all of the talk during all of the summers that players might be enticed to San Antonio by the lure of championships even if the money wasn't there, I think Tony Parker is a guy who would actually take less money to go play for teams that have a chance to win les if the Spurs don't have a chance.
That is the ticket and that is what most fans do not understand. It is not just about next year. It is not all or nothing next year. If the front office can put this team (TD,Manu,TP) in serious contention just one or two more years until TD retires, then they did their job.
You have a much more optimistic view of the current state of the roster and the ability of the FO to quickly improve the bench. It is a very uncertain time for the Spurs. The future performance levels of Tim and Manu are very much in doubt. If they are significantly diminished, and that is a reasonable possibility, then the Spurs will not be contenders regardless of the moves they make this summer. I would not advocate for a trade of Tony or Manu this summer. The Spurs, IMO, have to know at what level TD and Manu can perform before making major moves.
All of my analysis comes with the underlying assumption that the big 3 is healthy and performing at a relatively high level.
If that is not the case, Spurs will just have to bite the bullet for a few years unless they can swing some trades for the big 3 and get value in return at the same time avoiding the alienation of their fan base.
That won't be pretty. It was almost a day of mourning when Malik was traded. The Spurs only lost three home games that season. The game after the Malik trade was one of them. I've been to over 200 games at the ATT and don't think it was ever so somber in the building.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=250226024
you are joking that you would only trade him for LBJ and dwight?! CP3/D Wade/Kobe and Roy are all significantly better than him. That's not to put down tony's ability in any way, except to be a realist not a blind homer.
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