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big country not getting a 2nd chance
I looked at some outside-the-norm metrics on Duncan and on Duncan's teams and it becomes pretty easy to make an argument that he's been the best defender on some of the best defensive teams in NBA history. For him to have never won DPOY during that span is absolutely absurd. I'd argue that Duncan not winning is a much greater injustice than Bowen not winning -- and I believe Bruce has been hosed.
All of the defensive numbers that people were lauding the Celtics for last year have been pretty much the norm in San Antonio from 1999 through 2007. In fact, in most of those seasons the Spurs numbers -- even adjusted for pace -- were better than what the 07-08 Celtics did. Duncan's defensive efficiencies, his rebounding rates, his defensive win shares, his rebounds, his blocks, and the intangibles were all incredible during that run -- better than Garnett's 07-08 season, I'd argue -- and yet still no DPOY. It's a true shame.
big country not getting a 2nd chance
The Blazers not having won a ring from the 80s to early 2000's. They had some damn good teams and were consistently good for nearly 20 straight years.
The Mavericks not getting Michael Jordan in the draft.
T-Mac not getting out of the first round.
Yes, some people will think I'm re ed, but fact is, against Dallas and Utah, the guy played his ass off and had his team in position to take each series without too much trouble, and then his team started sucking ass. Say what you want, but in those series, he was balling his ass off and did all he could to try to win. His teams let him down big-time.
Brad Miller getting tats and corn rowed.
Grant Hill's career ruined due to injury. Guy was a phenom.
Drazen Petrovic's death. Another phenom.
very true.
if Duncan was a celtic or a laker, he'd have 3-4 DPOY by now.
The only reason Duncan and Bowen didn't win DPOY awards is because they never showed a ton of emotion or constantly have flashy steals/blocks the way guys like Ben Wallace, Marcus Camby, Ron Artest, and KG had. But in his prime, they both were most definitely a better defender than all those guys. They played lockdown man defense, and smart help defense, which I will take all day, over a couple flashy blocks/steals.
Not being in the limelight like those guys is what hurt Timmy and Bruce, and its honestly a shame. They each deserved AT LEAST one. But they got rings to show, which is 100x better.
This is what separates the Spurs from many teams. Help defense. Not as flashy, but simply rotating on D at the right times doesn't look flashy, but makes ALL the difference. Duncan rotates, offensive player changes his mind. Won't get you DPOY, but will get you rings...
+1 on the TD- no DPOY
John Stockton losing out on a le because Malone couldn't keep his together in crunch time... And Bavetta.
Along those same lines (this won't be popular) Pat Burke falling on Malone's knee, thereby destroying the only stable part of the would be 2004 Champion Lakers.
Not really an injustice, but the whole Michael Ray Richardson saga's pretty disappointing and tragic.
Manu's stupid foul on Dirk in 2006.
The DPOY is a joke of an award. It has become so statistics-based, and the huge problem with that are that the defensive statistics (blocks, steals, defensive rebounds) don't necessarily prove a player is a good defender or not. That's why good rebounders and shot blockers have often dominated the award. Ben Wallace probably didn't deserve the 2005 or 2006 (but he deserved it in 2004 when Artest got it), but statistically he was still better (albeit not much) than a guy like Duncan, especially because Ben would also fill up the steals category for a big man. I don't think that justifies it, but I think that's the reasoning. Ben was also a very good low post defender and an above average perimeter defender for a big man. But at least one, and maybe both of those, DPOYs (2005, 2006) were heavily based on reputation. 2005 might have been to make up for Artest getting it in 2004. Marcus Camby winning it in 2007 really showed how much of a joke the award is.
Also look at it this way, even though it probably brings little solace for the Spurs faithful. The Pistons were an elite team from around 2002-03 through 2005-06. For a team to be that good for so long, they weren't getting anyone as a legit contender for MVP, and no first team all-NBA selections. Their one individual accolade during that time period was the DPOY. Tim was still getting recognition as a legit MVP candidate and perennial first team all NBA player. For the better part of this decade, after the Spurs and the Lakers, the Pistons might have had the most success. And, this was the one award the Pistons and their fans knew they had a legit chance of winning year in and year out until Ben walked. It's not right, but maybe that's the basketball gods trying to throw the Pistons a bone to balance things out.
There are probably a couple things that hurt Tim Duncan's chances of winning a DPOY award in his career. First, for basically his entire career, he's had an elite defender as a teammate. David Robinson, even in his decline, perhaps took some of the credit for how well the Spurs played defense. And, Bruce Bowen, especially during the time roughly between 2003-2006, probably split votes among DPOY voters. Moreover, as suggested by what some people have mentioned, the Spurs defensive schemes have been considered among the best defensive strategies and gameplans over the past decade. Gregg Poppovich often gets credit for the way he designed help defense and forcing the basketball to the corners and baselines. It's this same defensive scheme that made players like Malik Rose, Rasho Nesterovic, and Nazr Mohammed look like above average, if not great, defenders. These things probably hurt his chances, along with some of the things already mentioned like Tim not being a flashy defender with highlight blocks and such and with his business-like demeanor. He has definitely been overlooked in this regard. Great player, awesome defender.
Didn't want to re-post all that you said, though I agree with it all. As a Spurs fan, it was frustrating last year to hear the pandering to the Celtics' defensive greatness (which hinted that their defensive prowess was almost unprecedented) when that stuff has been going on for years in San Antonio (and Detroit). I think Duncan's DPOY candidacies have been hurt by his lack of flash; they've been hurt by having elite defenders on hand; they've been hurt by the fact that his regular season minutes were often reduced because of bigger goals; and they've been hurt by the fact that he's Tim Duncan. Still, I think it's shameful that when the next generation talks about the great defenders of this era, Duncan's rightful ranking among the very best of all time will be diminished by the fact that he never won a DPOY, despite metrics that are off the charts.
I suppose, though, that 12 straight all-league selections and 12 straight all-defensive selections might offset the injustice.
I agree with the mention of Grant Hill's injuries and Drazen Petrovic's death. Two great players who never really got to play at the height of their powers. I think the same could be said of Bill Walton, too.
I think one macro injustice, too, is the decision to market stars over teams; I think it worked initially when the league needed a boost, but it's created this monster that convinces fans that the league is dictating outcomes to perpetuate stars because fans won't watch if the stars aren't there.
Arvydas Sabonis only playing in the NBA after he destroyed his knees, and people thinking of a slow, lumbering bigman when they hear his name because of it.
LeBron winning ROY over Melo.
+1. Stockton was ridiculously clutch. I can't count all the times I have seen him save Malone's ass at the end of games when the Mailman didn't show up. No way Utah shouldn't have won the 98 le after Stockton threw in that three with 41 seconds left to take a three-point lead in game 6. But, 20 seconds later Malone's not paying attention, and commits the series-blowing turnover. I mean, no way does Chicago win a game 7 with Pippen barely able to walk and an old Jordan running on fumes, trying to replicate his game 6 performance. It's ridiculous how underrated Stockton is; IMO he was a far better player than Malone.
.04
I was thinking of the same thing too. He might be the most skilled big man I've ever seen.
I think people often point this out, but it's not so much of an injustice as it was a heartbreaker because Duncan had just made a near impossible shot at the other end that basically stole the game away from the Lakers before Fisher stole it back.
little bit of both actually...the clock didn't start in time...couldn't have gotten the shot off in time..but I was putting it on here because of the disappointment, not the injustice.
Fair enough. Definitely a disappointment.
I also recall the argument that after Duncan made his shot, the clock wasn't stopped quickly enough. Shrugs... who knows?
hmm...I never looked at that..I'll have to watch the video again.
yeah. what the nba is saying is dwight howard, whose defensive footwork is just painful to watch, is a better defender than tim duncan, because he goaltends alot of shots. they are also saying that lebron is better on d than bruce bowen. rediculous. i always knew the MVP was a popularity contest, but dpoy the last 3 years or so has become one as well. the nba is so ludicrously biased and rigged that i may not watch next year. except my beloved spurs. david stern and have a pleasant tomorrow.
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