General NBA Draft 2009 Discussion

[benefactor]

very impressive overall was Derrick Brown. grood size for a SF (if he can play SF of course), fantastic wingspan, good sprint and leaping ability and better than most bigs on the bench.

Just bumped the thread....

[Blackjack]

Some interesting tidbits:

http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Jon...p-Preview-3243

• Detroit, Oklahoma City Talking Trade?

With the Detroit Pistons looking to get as far under the salary cap as they can this summer, and the Oklahoma City Thunder being one of the few teams who are able to help them shed salary, the two teams have emerged as natural trade partners, multiple NBA sources told DraftExpress this past weekend.

With very few teams projected to have cap space this summer (Oklahoma City, Memphis, Portland, Sacramento and Atlanta being the main ones), it appears that Detroit could be in great position to take advantage of the strength of this free agent class and nab a couple of pieces that would put them right back in the mix to compete for the Eastern conference finals. Detroit is currently slated to be around 20 million dollars underneath the cap, but could shed another five million or so by unloading the contracts of Amir Johnson and their first round pick (#15).

Enter the Oklahoma City Thunder. They are reportedly high on B.J. Mullens (as is Milwaukee), and likely would be able to nab him with the 15th pick. Considering how far under the cap they’ll be this summer, they would have no problem taking on Amir Johnson’s expiring 3.66 million dollar contract. They should be able to find a suitor for their late first round pick if they choose to do so, as teams like San Antonio, Houston, Toronto and Orlando are all in the market for a draft choice in that range.
With the money Detroit frees up, they could go after their top two free agent targets, rumored to be Paul Millsap and Ben Gordon.

[mystargtr34]

I think the biggest winner from the measurements might be Tyler Hansbrough. He actually has really good size, AND athleticism.

I think its his overall skill level that will limit him as a player.

[Mr. Body]

Just as an aside, for a draft class that is supposedly "not very deep," there sure do seem to be a lot of intriguing prospects out there that could fall into the second round. Forget conventional wisdom, if the Spurs do their scouting, they might be able to find a couple players that fit really well.

I don't know what intriguing prospects you're talking about.

[mountainballer]

to not lose overview I just do a summery (by position) about the reported work outs:
(plus their projected draft position)

Jeremy Pargo (PG) - undrafted
Ben Woodside (PG)- undrafted
Nic wise (PG) - undrafted
Kyle McAlarney (PG) - undrafted
Curtis Jerrells (PG) - undrafted
Rodrigue Beaubois (PG) - 30 to 40
Greivis Vasquez (PG/SG) - 2nd round bubble
Lester Hudson (PG/SG) - 45 to 60
Nick Calathes (PG/SG) - 1st round bubble
Jack McClinton (PG/SG) - 2nd round bubble

Alex Ruoff (SG) - undrafted
Jermaine Taylor (SG) - 31 to 45
Donald Sloan (SG) - undrafted
Courtney Fells (SG) - undrafted
Dionte Christmas(SG) - 2nd round
Danny Green (SG/SF) - 31 to 45
Chase Bundinger (SG/SF) only interview - 15 to 30

Lee mard (SF) - 2nd round bubble
Joe Ingles (SF) - 2nd round
Tyler Smith (SF) - 2nd round

Leo Lyons (PF) - 2nd round bubble
DeMarre Carroll - (PF) - 2nd round
Dwayne Collins (PF) - undrafted
Robert Dozier (PF) - undrafted
Damion James (PF) - 1st round bubble
Dante Cunningham (PF) - 2nd round bubble
Jeff Adrien (PF) - undrafted
Goran Suton (PF) - undrafted
Luke Harandogy (PF) only interview - 2nd round bubble
DaJuan Blair (PF/C) only interview - lottery bubble

that's 30 players. quite an impressive number. and this shouldn't be all.
I would be very surprised (and disappointed), if the Spurs didn't work out Derrick Brown and Jeff Pendergraph.
except Budinger and Blair all of them are realistic options with the Spurs 2nd round picks.
I guess many of them are not considered possible draft targets. maybe Spurs just take a look for their SL roster.

[mountainballer]

word is Dionte Christmas has outplayed higher ranked players in the GS multi team work out. (Terrence Williams, Chase Budinger, Darren Collison, Austin Daye, Patrick Mills)

and Omri Casspi was the best player in a workout in Minny including Eric Devendorf, Danny Green, Daniel Hackett, BJ Mullens, Luke Nevill, Austin Daye, Jeff Teague, Gani Lawal, Darren Collison, AJ Price, Dante Cunningham, Chinemelu Elonu .

[Bruno]

Nice work mountainballer.
Listing workout players by spot makes more sense than by date (even more when the date is unknown for a big part of the players).

[Bruno]

Spurs have also participated at two group workouts (in Houston and in Golden State).

[Bruno]

The Treviso Eurocamp start tomorrow and end on Monday.

Schedule: http://www.reebokeurocamp.com/page.php?pid=68
Participants: http://www.reebokeurocamp.com/page.php?pid=71

A lot of interesting players.
I hope measurement will be made public (like last year).

[wildbill2u]

Alade Aminu has worked out for the Spurs. 21 yo 6'10 and relatively unknown PF that has been off the radar at Ga. Tech since they don't use a system that plays to his strengths such as pick and roll. Runs well for big man. Former track guy.

Says he can be a Chris Anderson type of player.

[loveforthegame]

Alade Aminu has worked out for the Spurs. 21 yo 6'10 and relatively unknown PF that has been off the radar at Ga. Tech since they don't use a system that plays to his strengths such as pick and roll. Runs well for big man. Former track guy.

Says he can be a Chris Anderson type of player.

Draft Express has us taking him with the 53rd pick.

[Biggems]

would anyone be ok with this draft?

37 - SF/PF Derrick Brown - Xavier - 6'8 225

51 - SF Jonas Jerebko - Sweden - 6'9 210

53 - PF Ahmad Nivins - St. Joseph's - 6'9 235

[mookie2001]

marcus you should unstick, unlock a bunch of these threads, make this forum a little more poster friendly

[mountainballer]

Jack McClinton (PG/SG) has worked out for the Spurs.
another 3pt shooting combo guard.

[Bruno]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...draft.process/

As NBA draft grows increasingly specialized, uncertainty remains

Steve Aschburner

At its most elemental, the NBA draft is all about finding the right pegs to plug into the various teams' round holes.

Only there's nothing elemental about it anymore. The draft is big business, a multi-million dollar enterprise responsible for seeding talent into the NBA's multi-billion, international operation, while inspiring a fleet of services, publications and careers dedicated to the once-a-year roundup of pro prospects not just nationally but globally. Broadcast live around the world, bigger than big, the draft is as famous now for a culture all its own -- Look at what Joakim Noah's wearing! Did you see the look on Mom's face when her son got picked by the Clippers?! OK, time for Knicks fans to boo! Who's going to be the last guy left in the green room? -- as it is for matching young hires with their new employers in one of the world's most glamorous job fairs.

Still, it's not entirely removed from the playground, where you'd pick five, I'd pick five and the 11th kid would cry and face a lifetime of expensive therapy. There is, for instance, the game of tug o' war that has been added through the years in the run-up each June to the draft. Teams want to poke, prod and learn as much as possible about each player before committing a high pick and vast sums of money to his uncertain NBA future. Agents prefer to sell the proverbial pig in a poke.

"As long as there's a blank canvas, you can dream pretty big," San Antonio general manager R.C. Buford told me last week, when he attended a group workout of late-first-round-or-somewhere-in-the-second prospects in Minneapolis. "The more you fill that canvas, the more complete the evaluation becomes. Whether it's positive, negative or otherwise. If I start with a picture, and Picasso starts with a picture and they're both blank, they look the same. When you see his paint on it and my paint on it, you'll be able to determine who the painter is."

Having both eyes on the same side of one's head, in the NBA, is not a good thing. Some franchises still are figuring that out.

The power of players' agents is just one of myriad changes in the approach and execution of the NBA draft from its inception until now. In its infancy, each club's general manager had a few round pegs within easy reach -- the league recognized "territorial rights" to certain players, allowing a team to court fans by grabbing local or regional favorites while forfeiting its first-round pick. That's how Overbrook High's Wilt Chamberlain came home to Philadelphia in 1959, Ohio State's Jerry Lucas went to Cincinnati in '62 and, er, Michigan's Bill Buntin wound up in Detroit in '65.

Starting in '66, the league went traditional, with teams selecting in inverse order of their records and the last-place finishers in the two divisions (later conferences) flipped a coin for the right to pick No. 1. The first few unlucky teams did OK -- Detroit called tails, lost and got Dave Bing anyway, while Baltimore landed Earl Monroe and Wes Unseld with No. 2 picks in '67 and '68, respectively. But Phoenix guessed heads in '69, the coin showed tails and the Suns selected hirsute Florida big man Neal Walk a few sad moments after Milwaukee took Lew Alcindor (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar) off the board.

Expansion meant more non-playoff qualifiers, more teams willing to backpedal late in the regular season for a 50-50 shot at the nation's best collegian. The Houston Rockets were suspected of that in '84 when they positioned themselves for No. 1 draftee Hakeem Olajuwon 12 months after landing Ralph Sampson with '83's top pick. The NBA countered with the first draft lottery in '85, hoping to thwart similar moves in what many considered a bigger sweepstakes for Patrick Ewing, but giving birth to a new strain of conspiracy theories (think envelopes, hopper, dry ice, New York Knicks). The lottery got tweaked more than once after that -- and Orlando's luck in scoring the first picks in '92 and '93 -- in noble but still unsatisfying attempts to find the perfect system.

The draft's format has changed through the years to something more streamlined and slickly packaged. Initially, it lasted as long as a any team wanted to continue picking; in '73, the Buffalo Braves and the Boston Celtics pushed it out to 20 rounds, making 12 of the last 19 picks after most teams had gone home. The next year, the NBA imposed a 10-round limit that lasted until '85, when the draft was reduced to seven rounds, then three ('88), then the current two ('89).

The presentation has changed dramatically, too, from a telephone conference call to a backroom meeting in New York to a live event staged for prime time, rotated for several years to various league venues as if it were All-Star Weekend. The draft has been back in New York since 2000, still a showcase that -- with the lottery each May -- tries to stoke NBA interest in markets whose teams have fallen by the playoff wayside.

More than any structural, cosmetic or marketing changes, though, the scope of draft preparation has expanded as the event, and the stakes it represents for franchises valued at $300 million or more, have grown. Tales of great players falling through the cracks or going underscouted are legion and even amusing, a little quaint -- after their careers are over. Willis Reed, Nate Archibald, Gilbert Arenas and Rashard Lewis lasting until the second round? Eleven teams passing on Karl Malone after Ewing went first in '85, followed by three more (including Dallas twice) passing on Joe Dumars? Seattle picking Central Arkansas' Scottie Pippen at No. 5 for Chicago GM Jerry Krause in '87, immediately swapping him for No. 8 Olden Polynice and minor considerations long forgotten? Great stories, but not so great for the less savvy or less fortunate teams to endure.

No one wants to make a mistake, same as always. Only now, mistakes are measured in seven and eight figures rather than five or six. And with foreign pools of talent to tap, bad decisions or lack of preparation can expose personnel departments on a multinational stage.

Scouts who used to be sent mostly to the major NCAA conferences and to independents now have to hit the minor conferences, Division II and lower schools and junior colleges. For 11 years, from '95 until the NBA made prep players ineligible after '05, they had to fight for bleacher seats in tiny high school gyms. Meanwhile, the level of overseas scouting was ramped up, either from true interest or just self-preservation.

"As the number of players qualified to play in the NBA has gone from one to 80," Buford said, "you've had to make decisions: How much do you want to scout it, and how much do you want to play with those types of players? They don't fit with every coach, in every system."

Tell that to your fans, though, when Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker, picked 57th and 28th in their respective drafts, fit in just fine with the Spurs.

So draft prep work has changed, which is not the same as evolved. The process is more vast, with way more data -- think terabytes of information, not reams -- at evaluators' fingertips. Everything is televised, recorded, cataloged, maybe even YouTubed. Prospects get scrutinized, analyzed and brain-typed. Let's not forget search-enginged, either.

"The last 20 years, everybody's always done the psychology tests, the background checks," new Washington Wizards coach Flip Saunders said. "But now you know more about players because of the Internet. You can Google a kid, find out if he's been in any article in any paper, for any trouble. You can find out so many things now."

Even then you're kept guessing in other ways. For two decades, the top 32 senior prospects were invited to the Aloha Classic postseason camp in Honolulu, a must-see for every NBA team; Kevin McHale's draft stock rose when he was MVP there in '80, Pippen got noticed as an all-tournament pick in '87, the camp's last year of existence. That event was moved to Orlando, with similar pre-draft camps held in Chicago and Portsmouth, Va. But the talent level began to slip as agents advised their clients to not participate, lest they have a bad game or suffer an injury with the draft approaching.

"Everybody played then. Now they don't play," said Randy Wittman, the No. 22 pick by Washington in '83, traded that summer to Indiana but back finally as a Wizards assistant. "Back then, even if you were the consensus No. 1, you were going to be there playing. There were no individual workouts. They did interviews at the [camp]."

By the late 1980s and early '90s, the big names were making cameos merely to be measured and chatted up. "For a while, Chicago had some pretty good guys, guys on the cusp of the first round who were starting to move up," Minnesota general manager Jim Stack said. "Then you were lucky if you got second-round guys. It got to a point where there was all this expense, but we weren't getting the caliber of players to evaluate. Now they've gone to interviews and drills [only] -- there's no compe ive component." No 5-on-5 play, in other words, which is the simulation that matters most.

A recent change in draft preparation is the mass workout, with clusters of players auditioning for several teams, or even a dozen or more, at once. Golden State hosted such a "combine" early last week, the Nets have one at their facility this weekend and, for four days in between in Minneapolis, the Timberwolves were the center of the NBA's offseason universe for fellows like Larry Bird, Danny Ainge, Rod Thorn, Daryl Morey, John Hammond, Buford and. Teams shared the cost of flying in six or eight players at a time, two groups per day, rather than having them bounce city to city for a week or two, repeating the workouts and mostly getting fatigued.

"They were on some pretty demanding itineraries," said David Kahn, new Wolves president of basketball operations. "Can you imagine this kind of intensity, this kind of stress, in four cities in four days? It seems as if the consensus is, this is a more productive use of everybody's time, to see this many prospects in four days."

But wait, there's more: Representatives from every NBA team traveled to Treviso, Italy, over the weekend for a showcase of 50-60 players, some ineligible until drafts beyond '09. This one even featured 5-on-5 play, cramming more available information onto everyone's hard drives.

Does it all produce a better result? Of the NBA's last nine Rookies of the Year, only two (LeBron James in '03-04 and Derrick Rose last season) were chosen No. 1. Buford said it is hard to evaluate, since the players drafted via all this extra data and scrutiny still haven't worked their way through their careers. "Ten years from now," the Spurs GM said, "when we can sit back and evaluate what we're doing now, we'll know more."

Then again, for all the changes in NBA draftology, one thing is constant. "What do you do with [the information]?" Wittman said. "It's like anything else."

[Bruno]

Spurs have worked out a lot of players and have participated to at least 3 group workouts (in Houston, Minny and GS).
It's quite impressive for a team whose first pick is the #37.

I don't know what will be the result of the draft but at least Spurs' staff is doing all the necessary to pick the right player.

[Blackjack]

Spurs have worked out a lot of players and have participated to at least 3 group workouts (in Houston, Minny and GS).
It's quite impressive for a team whose first pick is the #37.

I don't know what will be the result of the draft but at least Spurs' staff is doing all the necessary to pick the right player.

Yeah, and it definitely lends credence to the rumors of them trying to get into the first-round.

Whether they're successful or not, remains to be seen, but taking on a guaranteed contract doesn't seem to be an issue; I guess they could draft and stash someone like Casspi and not start his contract until next year, though.

[mountainballer]

Casspi just denied that he will stay in Europe. he sees himself in the NBA next season.
(http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,2275375.story)

it's right that the Spurs do a lot of scouting considering the poor picks in a weak draft. I think there are multiple scenarios they are preparing.
first step is to get a 1round pick. but the price for a 1st rounder might be higher before the draft than trade for a picked player after the draft.
why?
teams can only trade their 1st rounders every other year. so if a team sells the pick before the draft, they hit their options for future trades, when the added pick might be crucial as teaser for getting a certain deal done. you pick a player and then trade the player works better. (I'm not 100% sure if I interpreted the rule right)
and the other point is, even if a team is pretty sure to sell the pick, they might still want to see what players might fall down to them.

so the big dealing will start on draft night, as usual. this year we will likely see more action than the years before. the best chance will be a deal with the Wolves IMO. but it will take some cap relieve maneuvers, if the Spurs want to get the #18 pick. (which will be necessary, if they in fact focus on Casspi, after his good work outs his stock went to that area.).
Fab+Matt for Cardinal + #18 pick might be a move the Wolves like. it saves them about 2 million if they waive Fab and they get a similar, but at this point a bit better player than Cardinal in Matt.

[Blackjack]

Reebok Eurocamp Summary, Part One

by: Jonathan Givony - President
June 11, 2009

With the 2009 Reebok Eurocamp in the books, we look back and empty our scouting notebooks from a great weekend in Treviso, Italy. The Eurocamp continues to progress from year to year and has become a must-see event for NBA and European teams alike.

In this report we’ll focus only on the players who did not receive extensive write-ups in our first two articles covering the camp....

http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Int...-Part-One-3255

[wildbill2u]

Assumning Classpi and Jerebko are gone, My current choices in order: Claver, Dasic, De Colo. Gives us two chances at a long 3 and cool shooting passing SG

De Colo You tube mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ti0fxUcfLU

[Blackjack]

DX Podcast: Jonathan Givony Interview with Gary Parrish
by: Jonathan Givony - President

June 10, 2009

Jonathan Givony joins Gary Parrish on 730 Fox Sports in Memphis to discuss the latest on the Ricky Rubio situation and other NBA draft rumors.

http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Jon...y-Parrish-3254

[Bruno]

Eurocamp measurements:
http://www.nbadraft.net/node/6824

[benefactor]

Damn...Marjanovic is friggin huge.

[Bruno]

Nando De Colo has short arms but he is a little bigger than what I thought. To me, his future in the NBA (if he has one) is at the SG spot.
Henk Norel is big. Spending a late second round pick on him can't be a bad choice.
Patrick Beverly can jump and has show some nice things at the Eurocamp. I wouldn't be against Spurs drafting him with the #51 or #53 and let him one year in Austin to learn the PG spot (Ramon Sessions plan).

The withdraw deadline is in two days. We should start having a better idea on who Spurs can get with their picks after that.

[Libri]

NBA Team Needs: Southwest Division
by: Kyle Nelson
June 12, 2009

San Antonio Spurs 54-28
Draft Picks #37, #51, and #53

Draft History:
2008- PG/SG- George Hill (#26), SF- Malik Hairston (#48), PF- James Gist (#57)
2007- PF/C- Tiago Splitter (#28), SG/SF- Marcus Williams (#33)
2006- None

Depth Chart:

PG: Tony Parker/ George Hill/ Jacque Vaughn*
SG: Roger Mason Jr./ Manu Ginobili/ Marcus Williams*
SF: Michael Finley*/ Bruce Bowen/ Ime Udoka*
PF: Tim Duncan/ Kurt Thomas/ Ian Mahinmi*
C: Matt Bonner/ Fabricio Oberto/ Drew Gooden*

Despite playing all season with an aging and injury depleted roster, and the second half of the season without the services of star swingman and sixth man Manu Ginobili, the San Antonio Spurs demonstrated that chemistry, great coaching, and experience can make an average team great. Unfortunately for the Spurs, this combination could only take them so far, and ultimately; they failed to make their mark on the playoffs. Now, it looks to be the end of an era in San Antonio, as this team is only getting older. Similarly, with Manu Ginobili entering a contract year, next season may be the last time that the Spurs’ legendary core suits up together. After making a number of trades to shore up their playoff hopes over the past few seasons, and unluckily missing out on signing Tiago Splitter, this team lacks young talent and significant assets, which puts pressure on GM R.C. Buford to make something happen during this off-season.

If any NBA team could turn three second round picks into a solid draft, it would be the Spurs. Adding talent through this draft is essential, and the Spurs front office has shown the foresight in the past to find underrated domestic and international role-players who could inject life into their team. While the second round is anything but certain, and this draft class is weaker than in past years, there could be a few prospects worthy of a look should the Spurs choose to use their draft picks. They are rumored to be angling to move up, possibly into the end of the first round, where there is a bit more talent than in the very shallow second round.

The Spurs need upgrades at almost every single position, but their most urgent needs lie in the post, to find a starting center or a back up for Tim Duncan, and on the wing. They’ve been looking to find a successor for Bruce Bowen for some time now on the wing, and will have to find a way to make an upgrade at the small forward position sooner rather than later. Considering how well they’ve scouted internationally over the past few years, it’s not out of the question that one or more picks comes from Europe. Regardless of what direction they choose to pursue, the Spurs need to have a very productive off-season if they want to continue their winning ways, and maximizing their assets in the draft wouldn’t be a bad way to start.


First Round Candidates: No first rounder

http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/NBA...-Division-3258