I would do it, James Harden for Manu.
Great fit for the spurs.
Haha, what an idiot. This Season, we only had Ginobili for about 40 Games, and Timmy had some injury problems too, and we still managed to get the #3 Seed in the toughest Conference in the League, in the toughest Division in the League.
I can't wait to see what we can do with a heatlhy Ginobili, redefined Tony Parker and still effective Tim Duncan. So please, stop being such a hater and move on.
Spurs would be smart to trade Ginobli before he has zero value.
I think the only sure picks end about 4th pick. That's why they are open to trade. I don't think you trade Manu for a possibly good, but not outstanding, pick.One thing that's not in doubt: The Wizards are actively dangling the fifth pick for a starting veteran. They are said to have contacted San Antonio to find out about the availability of Manu Ginobili, but that rumor was quickly shot down by both sides.
http://probasketballnews.com/story/?storyid=523
i wasn't sure if i should post it here or in the think tank thingy so.. feel free to move it or w/e.
And the FO ain't about to spend 4th pick money this year and get rid of Manu.
No, we'll just sign him to a huge extension next summer and pray he stays healthy. That's what the last two years have been about in the post season. If Ginobli were healthy then we might have another championship or two right now.
We like to bag on Finley, Vaughn, Bonner, Oberto, Udoka, Pop and so on as the reasons we failed this year and last. It has nothing to do with Ginobli's absence.
I know its not the popular opinion, but from the outside looking in, Spurs could drastically cut back on rebuilding time if they moved Duncan and Manu now.
Rebuilding to extend the time they are a 2nd level contender has no appeal to me.
I rather the Spurs go out in a blaze of glory and maximize the chances of a chanpionship in the next two-three years, even if it means falling off the cliff after that point.
To me that means keeping the big 3 intact for one more year and remaking the role players with more youth and athleticism. In the past when the big three were younger and friskier, it was ok to complement them with older, more ceberal role players. Now that the big 3 have entered a different phase of their career, they need to be complemented with more athletes who can drive/create.
One more please...
Also, not to mention the Spurs record this season with all of the big 3 healthy was very good. It's worth the roll of the dice for one more season. I'm actually more worried about Duncan than Manu.
Thats the thing with age though. Eventually that wear kicks in, and you say things like oh fluke injury, we'll be back next season. So then next season rolls around and bam its something else or a different guy and theres another season down the drain. Finally after consequetive seasons of failure to put a healthy product on court, your golden boys have no value left and then what do you have? No real youth, no tradable assets, and Clipper status for 6-8 years.
Best case scenario, all three all healthy, you put up one or two years of top caliber teams, but you still have to get passed the Lakers, who right now are looking pretty strong for the next few years.
Before the begining of this season there was an offer on the table for McGrady...basically the same one the Nuggets got for Iverson. Looking back, that trade would of been fantastic, but noooo, people were certain Tracy would bounce back. Now Tmac has faded even further and who knows what we could get for him.
As it stands, you can apparently get the fifth pick for Manu. You could probably do even better with Duncan, maybe a package of 2 above average guys. Assuming you traded those 2 and got some decent young guys, you could move forward and be back in it in far less time than if you went out in a "blaze of glory".
Just my opinion. TIFWIW
you hit the nail right on the head.
It seems people here don't understand.
It seems they wanna go out with a blazing glory and then deal with clipper status for the next decade.
The time is NOW for the spurs to make some moves.
we are not the same team, so we must do what's better for the TEAM and not for individuals.
The time was probably two years ago for the Spurs to make some moves.
Best hope for now:
Summer 2009
1) Pray a lot for Mahinmi to develop into an NBA player
2) Sign that Yiannis Bourousis character
2009-10 season
1) Try to package some combination of expiring contracts for a quality small forward before the trade deadline
Summer 2010
1) Draft a young wing
2) Pray that they haven't alienated Tiago Splitter
Then the Spurs could make a run in 2010-11 with a roster of Parker/Hill, Ginobili/Mason, quality small forward/young wing, Duncan/Mahinmi, Splitter/Bourousis.
dude, Manu and Duncan will be s s by then.
dont be so sure. they both have great work ethic, unlike other players.
Duncan? That would be right up there with getting rid of the Alamo. It would be like Houston getting rid of... well, you know. Something associated with Houston. Okay, like suggesting that they tear down the Astrodome to build a parking lot. All right, so they're actually considering that one. But you know what I mean.
Wait... I know. It would be like trading Hakeem Olajuwon to Toronto, so that he could finish his career in exile, and the Rockets could draft Bostjan Nachbar. Is that what you mean by re-building?
Trading Hakeem was the right move. He was done as a player. He still comes back to our games, he is still a "Rocket"
Good point about Hakeem... Duncan isn't done, that's the whole point. He was 2nd team All-NBA and could have easily been 1st team this year.
IMO, trading him for two above average players is not the solution.
What kind of numbers did Hakeem put up when he was 34?
16.5 PPG, 9.8 RB, 2.0 BPG. The next season 18.9 PPG, 9.6 RB, 2.5 BPG. David Robinson won 2 Championships after his numbers had "dwindled" to those levels. Without the heart problems (and if Scottie Pippen hadn't taken a vacation on the Rockets payroll) Hakeem might have won at least one more, too.
The Rockets traded Hakeem before his 18th season in the league. By then, he had played in 47, 50, 44, and 58 games the previous four seasons. For the Rockets, it was the right move basketball wise, but I still wouldn't do it as a franchise if it were up to me.
However, when he was 34, he put up 23.2pts on 51%, 9.2 Reb, 1.50 Stl, 2.22Blks.
Last edited by StoneBuddha; 06-05-2009 at 02:44 PM.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...olajuha01.html
He had a good season at 33 but started seriously declining shortly thereafter. Notice games missed.
That was the season just before he turned 34 - splitting hairs, I know. But damned good numbers. The next two that I listed were after he turned 34. The other thing is that he had heart and blood clot problems. But his body was far from worn out.
My point was, all they got for Hakeem was a couple of picks. The best one landed Nachbar, who averaged something like 3 PPG for the Rockets. In Hakeem's last, injury-plagued season with Toronto, he was still better than Nachbar.
The only big worth talking about in this draft is Griffen, and I don't think he'll be out-performing Duncan in the next 4 seasons. Last year? We could have gotten Brooke Lopez. Or Greg Oden the year before that.
If the goal is winning another trophy or two in the near future, the answer isn't in trading Duncan. If Duncan's knee turns out to be as limiting as Hakeem's health problems (and there was no way of forseeing that) then I still wouldn't trade him for someone of Nachbar's caliber. You're not going to build a franchise around Brooke Lopez, either. And if Oden ever plays as many games as Hakeem did after he was 34, we can talk about him.
[Edit: Two drafts ago, we could have gotten Al Horford. He's considered one of the good young bigs out of the last few drafts. Last season: 11.5 PPG and 9.3 boards. Not bad. But I'll take my championship chances with a 34 year old Duncan.]
Last edited by GSH; 06-05-2009 at 03:01 PM.
Nope even with a healthy Manu the spurs were not winning this year or last.
A healthy Manu is not enough of a difference maker from winning only 1 playoff game to being good enough to win a championship.
The Manu is not healthy excuse is hiding the fact the spurs are not a deep talented team. They need to overhaul much of the roster now with youth and athleticism and build around their best two players Parker and Duncan.
Very realistic assessment. Incremental improvements this summer, at the trade deadline, and next summer. Much more likely to yield success than some all-or-nothing maneuver this summer to try and bridge the gap between the Spurs and the Lakers. Given the health status of TD and Manu and the quality of the current supporting cast, transforming this team into a championship contender in one summer is a serious longshot.
I also agree with the priorities and methods you recommend. The priority this summer should be to clear enough space to use the MLE, or most of it, on the best available big they can get. At the trade deadline look for someone desperate to dump a SF in exchange for expiring contracts. By the trade deadline they also should know enough about Manu's health to decide whether to trade him, resign him, or let his contract expire.
If they do those two things and TD and Manu return to good health, they might be able to make some noise this year. Of course, it's also possible that Manu doesn't return to health and that they barely miss the playoffs and get a late lottery pick. To me, that wouldn't be a disaster if they would start the 2010-11 season with the MLE big, the trade SF, a late lottery pick wing, and Splitter to add to TD, TP, Hill and Ian.
Now if TD has a serious decline we can begin talking about the 2012 plan.
If Manu had been healthy, Drew Gooden still would have gone from being not good enough to stay on a 17-65 team to being the most talented frontcourt player on the Spurs not named Tim Duncan.
But it's all good. On to next season...
October 30 --- Hey, Matt Bonner grabbed 8 rebounds in the last preseason game! I think he's figuring out how to rebound -- with this and his shooting, he's got to be in the top half of NBA centers, right?.
October 31 --- The E-N just published an article about how Michael Finley is in the best shape of his life, as though 10 years have been erased! I'm not worried about our hole at small forward anymore.
November 2 --- Ian Mahinmi will be a sure thing... he's just trying to shrug off an injury down in Austin for now.
November 4 --- The Spurs' latest acquisition scored 10 points last night! Though by all appearances he was a total non-contributor with his previous team, he is really a diamond in the rough, an example of the Spurs' front-office a en!
November 20 --- Did you read that article in the E-N about what a locker-room cancer Drew Gooden was, and how he really played a big role in the first-round loss to Dallas last year? Yeah, but the Spurs were just too classy to let out that dirty laundry before he signed that big contract in Tajikistan.
December 17 --- So Manu will miss a few games. He'll be fine. He's a warrior, and the playoffs are months away.
January 12 --- Tim is just doing an incredible job doing all the scoring, rebounding, screening, and defending in the paint by himself. Umm, I mean... the other guys are really supporting him in ways that don't show up on the stat sheet. Oh, and they have great chemistry!
February 5 --- Tim's gait is starting to look a little labored, but you know, that's just the NBA. He's fine. Oh, what, there's a knee problem? Bah. The Spurs won a le when Tim had two sprained ankles. Only the sissy non-fans show doubt! He'll just take it easy during the All-Star break.
February 20 --- Manu doesn't seem to have the same explosiveness or lift he had back in November... but... Playoff Manu!!! He had all summer off, surely he'll be fine!
March 1 --- So the Spurs are only 31-22. Who cares? SPAM, baby!
March 15 --- The only reason the Spurs are giving up 100 points a game is because Pop is stupid and refuses to play Bruce Bowen.
April 1 --- OK, so maybe SPAM didn't happen. But this team has the heart of a champion! Drive for FIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 21 --- OK, so Tim is out for the playoffs and needs knee surgery, and Manu looks like he's around 50%. This team still has a 1-3% percent chance of winning the NBA championship! Tony can carry them! It's actually a blessing that Oklahoma City passed us for the 7 seed, it will make it that much sweeter when we beat those overrated Lakers in the first round and keep them from repeating!
May 3 --- The Lakers sweeping us was a fluke because Tim was hurt and Manu wasn't healthy. If we'd had both of them we would have won easily.
July 1 --- The front office is so smart... we have $6.5 million in cap room! I'm sure Chris Bosh will take less money to play with Tim Duncan.
if wizards were to offer lets say: 5th pick and matching salary: Etan Thomas (contract expires 2010) and Nick Young (contract expires 2010) for Manu... if i were the spurs, i'd seriously consider this offer. With the 5th pick, we'd most likely be able to get Hill, Hardens, or Evans, who are all really good prospects who could contribute right away, and we'd also get another good young guard in Nick Young.
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