the Gasol trade.

[DrHouse]

So was it collusion when Detroit got Rasheed Wallace for:

Zeljko Rebraca, Bob Sura and a future first round pick

or when the Warriors snagged Baron Davis for:

Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis

You all act like lopsided trades have never happened before. The truth of the matter is they do happen quite a bit in the NBA every other year or so. Basketball is as much about winning as it is about money, probably more about money IMHO. Teams make personnel decisions all the time that have little to do with winning.

[JamStone]

So was it collusion when Detroit got Rasheed Wallace for:

Zeljko Rebraca, Bob Sura and a future first round pick

Some say it was. And, it was a first round pick for that year's draft, 2004. That draft pick ended up being Josh Smith.

However, that Wallace trade was markedly different from the Gasol trade for several reasons:

1. There was no one on the Atlanta Hawk's front office or anyone recently in charge of things for the Hawks personnel who had ties with the Detroit Pistons.

2. Rasheed Wallace's contract expired when the Pistons traded for him. If the Hawks didn't trade Rasheed, he would have walked after the season for nothing. Gasol was under contract for another three seasons after the 2007-08 season when the Grizzlies traded him to the Lakers.

3. The Hawks negotiated with other teams for prospective trades involving Rasheed Wallace. Memphis didn't even tell teams that Gasol was on the block. They only dealt with the Lakers.

4. Rasheed Wallace had a bad reputation at that point that made him a risk player to trade for and one that some teams were not interested in acquiring because of his off the court issues. Gasol had no such baggage attached to him, particularly off the court, that made him a gamble to trade for.

The above reasons made that Wallace trade seem extremely reasonable compared to the Gasol trade.

[DrHouse]

Some say it was. And, it was a first round pick for that year's draft, 2004. That draft pick ended up being Josh Smith.

However, that Wallace trade was markedly different from the Gasol trade for several reasons:

1. There was no one on the Atlanta Hawk's front office or anyone recently in charge of things for the Hawks personnel who had ties with the Detroit Pistons.

2. Rasheed Wallace's contract expired when the Pistons traded for him. If the Hawks didn't trade Rasheed, he would have walked after the season for nothing. Gasol was under contract for another three seasons after the 2007-08 season when the Grizzlies traded him to the Lakers.

3. The Hawks negotiated with other teams for prospective trades involving Rasheed Wallace. Memphis didn't even tell teams that Gasol was on the block. They only dealt with the Lakers.

4. Rasheed Wallace had a bad reputation at that point that made him a risk player to trade for and one that some teams were not interested in acquiring because of his off the court issues. Gasol had no such baggage attached to him, particularly off the court, that made him a gamble to trade for.

The above reasons made that Wallace trade seem extremely reasonable compared to the Gasol trade.

And what about Baron Davis for Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis?

The bottom line is you can't even begin to evaluate the merits of the Gasol trade right now. The Grizzlies unloaded Pau for the biggest expiring K they could find so they could rebuild.

[sook]

oh shut the up already

[TheMACHINE]

Maybe memphis just wanted nothing.

[JamStone]

And what about Baron Davis for Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis?

The bottom line is you can't even begin to evaluate the merits of the Gasol trade right now. The Grizzlies unloaded Pau for the biggest expiring K they could find so they could rebuild.

I don't really know enough about the Baron Davis trade, but on its face, it seems pretty bad. Didn't Baron Davis wear out his welcome with the Hornets and had become a malcontent? I don't know.

I personally don't have a problem with the Gasol trade having gone down. happens. But, you have to acknowledge that it was shady, and it was borderline collusion. To deny that would be foolish. Memphis didn't tell any other team Gasol was on the trading block. They didn't look for any other big, expiring contract. They only dealt with the Lakers. They traded within the conference. Jerry West was the former GM for both the Lakers and the Grizzlies. You can evaluate the merits of the Gasol trade in how the trade was made and how su iously wrong it appeared.

And, regardless, my post was to distinguish the Rasheed trade from the Gasol trade, as you tried to compare the two. They were very much different. That was the point of my post, to draw a distinction with the Rasheed trade you tried to draw parallels with. My point wasn't to discuss the merits of the Gasol trade anyway.

[TJastal]

Some say it was. And, it was a first round pick for that year's draft, 2004. That draft pick ended up being Josh Smith.

However, that Wallace trade was markedly different from the Gasol trade for several reasons:

1. There was no one on the Atlanta Hawk's front office or anyone recently in charge of things for the Hawks personnel who had ties with the Detroit Pistons.

2. Rasheed Wallace's contract expired when the Pistons traded for him. If the Hawks didn't trade Rasheed, he would have walked after the season for nothing. Gasol was under contract for another three seasons after the 2007-08 season when the Grizzlies traded him to the Lakers.

3. The Hawks negotiated with other teams for prospective trades involving Rasheed Wallace. Memphis didn't even tell teams that Gasol was on the block. They only dealt with the Lakers.

4. Rasheed Wallace had a bad reputation at that point that made him a risk player to trade for and one that some teams were not interested in acquiring because of his off the court issues. Gasol had no such baggage attached to him, particularly off the court, that made him a gamble to trade for.

The above reasons made that Wallace trade seem extremely reasonable compared to the Gasol trade.

BLING!

As Mark Jackson would say "Jamstone delivers the pass, on POINT!"

Nice take, Jam

[DrHouse]

I don't really know enough about the Baron Davis trade, but on its face, it seems pretty bad. Didn't Baron Davis wear out his welcome with the Hornets and had become a malcontent? I don't know.

I personally don't have a problem with the Gasol trade having gone down. happens. But, you have to acknowledge that it was shady, and it was borderline collusion. To deny that would be foolish. Memphis didn't tell any other team Gasol was on the trading block. They didn't look for any other big, expiring contract. They only dealt with the Lakers. They traded within the conference. Jerry West was the former GM for both the Lakers and the Grizzlies. You can evaluate the merits of the Gasol trade in how the trade was made and how su iously wrong it appeared.

And, regardless, my post was to distinguish the Rasheed trade from the Gasol trade, as you tried to compare the two. They were very much different. That was the point of my post, to draw a distinction with the Rasheed trade you tried to draw parallels with. My point wasn't to discuss the merits of the Gasol trade anyway.

Give me proof. All you have is theory and conjecture. And nobody has explained why the OWNERS OF THE MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES would ever allow this to happen if it were so lopsided and detrimental to them. Why would they purposefully do something like that to destroy their team and hurt revenues? If you want to blame anyone, go blame their GM Chris Wallace for not getting more.

West was almost a year or more removed as GM of Memphis. If you knew the character of the man and what he has done since he was the Laker's GM, which you obviously don't despite claiming to be a Laker fan, you would never question the man's integrity. He's the ing Logo for a reason.

And if you really believe this crap why on earth do you watch the NBA?

[JamStone]

Give you proof of what? That Jerry West was the former GM of both the Lakers and the Grizzlies? You don't need proof of that. That the trade didn't look su ious? You don't need proof of that. That Memphis didn't tell any other teams that Gasol was on the trading block? Several NBA GMs said as much. I'm not an insider and don't have any sources to tell me exactly what happened, but I'm pretty sure Memphis didn't even deny that they only talked to the Lakers.

Once you provide proof that Memphis told other teams that Gasol was on the trading block and that they fielded trade offers from other teams, then I'll provide proof that they didn't.

I don't question that Jerry West is a good man. I'm sure he doesn't lose sleep over the Gasol trade. And, I'm sure he doesn't feel his integrity should get called into question for any influence he had over the Gasol trade happening. People like you who never question the true nature of men are often hopelessly blind in your faith. Kobe the all American McDonald's poster boy could never do any wrong. You probably ate that up. Part of you probably is still in denial that Kobe actually sexually assaulted that girl in Colorado. It's that same blind faith that tells your value system that there's no way in the world that Jerry West could have been involved in the trade. He's a man of supreme integrity. If that's how you feel, good for you. I know that even a good man has his character flaws, his evil vices. I don't think Jerry West is a bad person or a man without integrity. But, I don't believe for a second his character wouldn't allow him to do something like help orchestrate the Gasol trade.

I watch and follow the NBA because I like basketball. I enjoy watching basketball. I actually don't care if there was collusion with the Gasol trade. I just got into the topic because you gave a poor example to compare the Rasheed trade with the Gasol trade, so I was correcting you. And then I gave my opinion in response to your post. Good for the Lakers for making the Gasol trade. If any other team could have done it, they would have too. I don't blame the Lakers for making the trade or taking advantage of su ious means in order to consummate the trade. It's not a big deal to me. I think Kobe sexually assaulted that girl in Colorado but I'm still a fan of him as a basketball player. I watch basketball for the basketball, not for players to always demonstrate great character. I still would rather watch Kobe and Shaq than Shane Battier and Emeka Okafor. I'm not an NBA conspiracy theory type fan. I don't think the entire league is rigged. But, I am not blind to the shady things that go on either. I still watch despite that because I like basketball.

[TJastal]

Give me proof. All you have is theory and conjecture. And nobody has explained why the OWNERS OF THE MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES would ever allow this to happen if it were so lopsided and detrimental to them. Why would they purposefully do something like that to destroy their team and hurt revenues? If you want to blame anyone, go blame their GM Chris Wallace for not getting more.

West was almost a year or more removed as GM of Memphis. If you knew the character of the man and what he has done since he was the Laker's GM, which you obviously don't despite claiming to be a Laker fan, you would never question the man's integrity. He's the ing Logo for a reason.

And if you really believe this crap why on earth do you watch the NBA?

Ahh, the old "give me proof" line. Its a mountain of cir stantial evidence pal. Which should have been enough to raise doubts for the league to step in and rescind this fiasco.

[Gino]

I wouldnt worry about things too much.

Things will even out. The Lakers wont be able to keep Odom, Im guessing.

Let em have their trophy. Without Odom the Lakers wont be collectively good enough to compensate for Kobe's selfishness and bone-head plays.

[DeadlyDynasty]

I wouldnt worry about things too much.

Things will even out. The Lakers wont be able to keep Odom, Im guessing.

Let em have their trophy. Without Odom the Lakers wont be collectively good enough to compensate for Kobe's selfishness and bone-head plays.

smartest thing you've said all day

[TJastal]

The funny thing about all this is that if they would have entertained other trade offers with other teams there is no way it would have ever looked "LEGIT". Can you imagine the better offers they could have gotten for Gasol? They would have looked like clowns taking Lakers scrubs and crapola.

They had to do this hush-hush and under the table.

[TJastal]

I wouldnt worry about things too much.

Things will even out. The Lakers wont be able to keep Odom, Im guessing.

Let em have their trophy. Without Odom the Lakers wont be collectively good enough to compensate for Kobe's selfishness and bone-head plays.

I wouldn't speak too soon, Odom has already stated on record he will take less $$ to stay in LA.

[poop]

great posts by Jamstone.

lets see...the '07 finals had horrible ratings; ratings were down in general previous years, and bottomed in '07.

but im sure it was just a coincidence that the following year, the lakers recieve Gasol in one of the most shady, controvertial 'trades' in NBA history. And im also sure that the boston celtics-through several blockbuster trades-had the biggest most sudden overnight turnaround in NBA history following decades of mediocrity happened the same year entirely by chance, setting up a miraculously convenient Lakers-Celtics rivaly rebirth, and that the third biggest market (chicago) defied the odds to win the draft lottery.

im sure all these incredible things just happened to occur, all at the same time, at a time when the league needed it the most, entirely by chance.

just a coincidence im sure.

[DeadlyDynasty]

great posts by Jamstone.

lets see...the '07 finals had horrible ratings; ratings were down in general previous years, and bottomed in '07.

but im sure it was just a coincidence that the following year, the lakers recieve Gasol in one of the most shady, controvertial 'trades' in NBA history. And im also sure that the boston celtics-through several blockbuster trades-had the biggest most sudden overnight turnaround in NBA history following decades of mediocrity happened the same year entirely by chance, setting up a miraculously convenient Lakers-Celtics rivaly rebirth, and that the third biggest market (chicago) defied the odds to win the draft lottery.

im sure all these incredible things just happened to occur, all at the same time, at a time when the league needed it the most, entirely by chance.

just a coincidence im sure.

If you suspect foul play then STOP WATCHING. Do you realize how pathetic you look when you cry foul, yet continue to watch?

[Rogue]

The Lakers just promoted Gasol from their D-League companion, that's not even a trade not to mention a robbery or some.

[TJastal]

The Lakers just promoted Gasol from their D-League companion, that's not even a trade not to mention a robbery or some.

+1

I'm sure O.J Mayo is next on thei radar. Just when the poor dolt Grizz fans think their team is getting somewhere, *poof* OJ Mayo gone, and the pundits will all tell us the grizzlies back to their "rebuilding" plans.

[TheMACHINE]

+1

I'm sure O.J Mayo is next on thei radar. Just when the poor dolt Grizz fans think their team is getting somewhere, *poof* OJ Mayo gone, and the pundits will all tell us the grizzlies back to their "rebuilding" plans.

good idea..let me give my boy Jer another 50 bucks

[DrHouse]

Nobody has answered the following question.

Why would the Memphis organization purposefully shoot itself in the foot by making a "lopsided" trade that hurts revenues? If we can all agree money is the bottom line for any franchise, why does Memphis do this?

You can't answer this question because it doesn't fit into your neat little conspiracy theory. The bottom line is Gasol was not cutting it as the main man in Memphis. It was clear they weren't going to win with him, a trade had to be made. Now when a team is in this situation they do one of two things: they either trade for equivalent talent coming back or they get draft picks and expirings so they aren't burdened by more long term contracts. Clearly Memphis wanted to clear capspace and give the NEW OWNERS the flexibility to mold the team the way they wanted to. This meant they needed their GM Wallace to find the biggest expiring possible and as many draft picks as they could. The Lakers were a trading partner who fit the bill on both accounts, could a better deal have been had? Sure, but Wallace was under the gun to get a deal done quickly and he dead. If you are going to blame anyone, blame this guy for not going out there and getting a better deal.

What people don't realize is Gasol was put on the block publicly for a full year before LA got him. Chicago expressed interest but they refused to give up the kind of talent Memphis needed coming back because they overrated guys like Deng/Hinrich/Gordon/Thomas. Memphis decided to keep Gasol instead and it wasn't until their hands were forced financially that they had to make the decision to let Gasol go.

So you can call this trade whatever you want to, I agree that Memphis did not make a smart decision here. But this is the NBA, there are stupid GM's all over the place. Some dumb paid Gilbert Arenas 120 million dollars.

Just don't give me this Jerry West conspiracy BS. You have no facts, evidence, or anything of the like to support that. Just hot air out of your ass because you can't stand the fact that the Lakers got better because of it.

[JamStone]

Nobody has answered the following question.

Why would the Memphis organization purposefully shoot itself in the foot by making a "lopsided" trade that hurts revenues? If we can all agree money is the bottom line for any franchise, why does Memphis do this?

You're pretty thick in the head. The fact that Memphis made such a lopsided trade that hurts revenues is precisely why there's a conspiracy theory of collusion.

You can't answer this question because it doesn't fit into your neat little conspiracy theory. The bottom line is Gasol was not cutting it as the main man in Memphis. It was clear they weren't going to win with him, a trade had to be made. Now when a team is in this situation they do one of two things: they either trade for equivalent talent coming back or they get draft picks and expirings so they aren't burdened by more long term contracts. Clearly Memphis wanted to clear capspace and give the NEW OWNERS the flexibility to mold the team the way they wanted to. This meant they needed their GM Wallace to find the biggest expiring possible and as many draft picks as they could. The Lakers were a trading partner who fit the bill on both accounts, could a better deal have been had? Sure, but Wallace was under the gun to get a deal done quickly and he dead. If you are going to blame anyone, blame this guy for not going out there and getting a better deal.

Provide proof that Memphis explored other trade possibilities with teams that also had big, expiring contracts.

What people don't realize is Gasol was put on the block publicly for a full year before LA got him. Chicago expressed interest but they refused to give up the kind of talent Memphis needed coming back because they overrated guys like Deng/Hinrich/Gordon/Thomas. Memphis decided to keep Gasol instead and it wasn't until their hands were forced financially that they had to make the decision to let Gasol go.

Let's talk about when the deal went down. Whenever that was, February 2008 I believe, where is the evidence that Memphis explored other trade possibilities with other teams at that time. Not the summer before. When the trade went down mid season. Who else did Memphis talk to about trading Pau Gasol?

So you can call this trade whatever you want to, I agree that Memphis did not make a smart decision here. But this is the NBA, there are stupid GM's all over the place. Some dumb paid Gilbert Arenas 120 million dollars.

If you agree that it was a dumb move, then you should understand why people think something shady went down. Arenas got overpaid. But, he also averaged 28 ppg and 6 apg. It's not like the Wizards paid Kwame Brown a $120 million contract. Your examples to support your argument are horrible.

Just don't give me this Jerry West conspiracy BS. You have no facts, evidence, or anything of the like to support that. Just hot air out of your ass because you can't stand the fact that the Lakers got better because of it.

It's absolutely true that there is no hard evidence (that we know of) that Jerry West was involved at all in the Gasol trade. The fact it was such a horrible trade for Memphis that simply didn't make any sense is all cir stantial evidence. But, that's why fans come to that conclusion. Of course it's conjecture.

[DrHouse]

You're pretty thick in the head. The fact that Memphis made such a lopsided trade that hurts revenues is precisely why there's a conspiracy theory of collusion.




Provide proof that Memphis explored other trade possibilities with teams that also had big, expiring contracts.




Let's talk about when the deal went down. Whenever that was, February 2008 I believe, where is the evidence that Memphis explored other trade possibilities with other teams at that time. Not the summer before. When the trade went down mid season. Who else did Memphis talk to about trading Pau Gasol?




If you agree that it was a dumb move, then you should understand why people think something shady went down. Arenas got overpaid. But, he also averaged 28 ppg and 6 apg. It's not like the Wizards paid Kwame Brown a $120 million contract. Your examples to support your argument are horrible.




It's absolutely true that there is no hard evidence (that we know of) that Jerry West was involved at all in the Gasol trade. The fact it was such a horrible trade for Memphis that simply didn't make any sense is all cir stantial evidence. But, that's why fans come to that conclusion. Of course it's conjecture.

Thank you for admitting that in all of your multi-paragraph response you are simply blowing hot air out your ass.

And you still haven't answered the question of WHY the ownership would allow such a trade to go through. You think West and Wallace did this behind the back of the owners? If there was a concerted effort of collusion here then the OWNERS of the Memphis Grizzlies would HAVE to be involved.

At the end of the day this trade was nothing more than a salary dump. This isn't the first or last of its kind. The only reason it has warranted special attention is because it benefited the Lakers whom everyone hates with a violent passion.

/thread

[Ghazi]

House ur pretty dum bra

[Lars]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insid...e=Gasol-080205

...insider only

"
While most GMs weren't publicly venting their frustration on having missed out on Gasol, plenty were willing to do so privately.


The excuses ranged from blaming Grizzlies GM Chris Wallace to blaming their owners to … well … pointing the finger in just about every direction but their own.


One GM I spoke to asserted he had a better deal to offer, claiming that Wallace didn't return his calls.


Another said that just two weeks ago, Wallace was asking for twice as much in return. If this GM had known the Grizzlies were lowering the asking price on Gasol, he would've made another offer, he said.

"

[DrHouse]

ALL HEARSAY

Give me proof, otherwise STFU.