Manu
Dirk
Manu with injury can only play out 50% as he could have done, obviously a healthy Manu is better than Kobe, though he can rarely be healthy.
Exactly, the OP ask wich player would complement Duncan better, and i think that is manu, because his salary will let you have another stars on your team.
If im wrong what the is Cuban waiting to go after Duncan and get the championship.
Nba rules of salary cap are specifically build so you don`t have two franchise players in your team, basically because you will have scrubs in the other positions.
But according to mavs fans it doesn`t matter and every gm in the nba is wrong.
If you think that Joe Johnson is a better player than Manu then that's it, we're never going to be on the same page.
But I'm going to give it a last try:
Joe Johnson averaged 21 pts per game on 18 FG attemps last season... THAT'S HORRIBLE!!! if Manu would have the freedom to take 18 shots attempts per game he would never have 8, 9, 10 points nights. Switch Manu for Joe Johnson and the Hwaks would be a better team and San Antonio a worst one.
OP was making the assumption salaries did not matter. He was speaking purely from a basketball stand point.
We learned in 2008 that 50% Manu < Sasha Vujacic
Manu has never put up the numbers Joe Johnson put up this season (no, the numbers he put up in the Euroleague against non-NBA talent doesn't count).
Manu is much closer to Joe than Dirk as a player. I love Manu. I love what he brings to a team. I love that he plays on both ends of the floor. But he is in a perfect situation for him.
A team that is so good most of the time that they can afford to maximize his effectiveness by limiting his minutes and by having him play alongside Tim and TP.
If you're going to defend "Prime" Manu Ginobili, then don't cherrypick Joe Johnson's last season. One could make the argument that Ginobili gets better shot opportunities playing alongside Duncan and Parker, whereas Joe Johnson is his team's #1 option and the #1 focus of opposing defenses. This is a dimension that coaches, GMs and scouts grasp. Joe Johnson's best year saw him average 25 PPG on 47% shooting, along with 4 rebounds and 4 assists...for a thin Hawks team around him. That's better than Ginobili playing off the angles that are created for him by TP and Timmy.
Manu could also never play 40 minutes a night for 82 games like Joe or other top notch, number one options.
I do believe that Manu could score very well (like JJ) on the Hawks if given the opportunity. And if you look at extrapolated numbers and take them on face value you could make that argument.
But I argue that Manu would lose effectiveness if he played 40 MPG. He would not be able to score at the efficient pace he does if he had to play that long and carry an offense.
The ultimate re ed argument is taking the 3rd wheel on a team's efficiency and projecting it over x amount of minutes and x amount of shots. If Manu played more minutes and took more shots, his efficiency would plummet, and he'd be done 30 games into the season.
Except you can't do that. Basketball isn't played on a calculator, it's played on a basketball court.
Read the rest of my post.
I didn`t see that assupmtion, but maybe you`re right, that`s why i still haven`t voted.
I think there is a reason why Dirk has a bigger paycheck than Manu and also why no team has put togheter a Duncan-Nowitzki combo.
All the things you say he can't do he has done it almost his whole career (beign the number one option, playing close to 40 minutes per game for entire seasons, etc.) and he hasn't done any other thing besides winning so please stop inventing things to try to sell them as facts.
The reason no team has put together a Duncan-Dirk combo is because the Mavericks have held his rights since draft night and would hang up if the Spurs called offering anything less than Duncan.
Ya, it was sort of implied. This was saying, if money was not an issue, and you could choose Duncan+Dirk+Finley+Very Mediocre Player+Parker or Duncan+Bonner+Finley+Manu+Parker who would you take from a basketball standpoint as a compliment to Duncan.
Please stop trying to use his minor league achievements as NBA achievements.
When has he done this?
Yes, but you are using something that is not apples to apples. Leading an NBA team as a number 1 option while playing 40MPG over 82 games is much different than leading a Euro team playing a different style, with less compe ion and a much shorter season.
Playing for his local team (the Argentine Nazi lovers).
Not in DAF86's mind it isn't. DAF86 is like KBP, the only difference is he isn't a troll, he really thinks Euroleague = NBA.
I think the original proposition is where everything is lost.
If you take out the 'second banana' argument and limit the proposition to the offensive game, then you have much more clear cut point that Dirk offers more than Manu.
The entire 'second banana' already predisposes you to think everything runs through Duncan, and the rest gets the leftovers, be it Manu or Dirk.
The Spurs would simply play different if they had an option like Dirk instead of Manu.
We can argue if it's better, worse, or anything in between, but it's most definitely different.
The energy you spend to play FIBA basketball is the same you spend on the NBA, in fact FIBA ball is a lot more physical.
No one is saying Manu is not a fantastic player. Everyone respects him and he has his moments where he looks like one of the best players in the NBA. He is a great teammate and compe or and has that "it" factor.
But he is not on the same level as some of the players mentioned in this thread.
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