jeff fisher

[Kermit]

Vince Young is going to the hall of fame.

College Football H.O.F. Without a doubt.

[2Cleva]

I'm a longtime Tenn ans fan and have a few connects who cover the org.

Jeff Fisher has a huge anti-VY bias. In general, he doesn't want his QBs to run. Yes, McNair had success but that's not the way Fisher wants it.

After his rookie year, he basically told VY that if he didn't become a pocket passer he was outta Tenn.

Hence VY's 2nd year - you see him very tentative to run. He was trying to play the pocket scheme Chow ran. Chow eventually was looking to change the offense to suit VY better but Fisher didn't want to hear that and sent Chow packing.

When VY had the episode of not wanting to go back in the game right away (stories on this always have been conflicting), Fisher took that opportunity to bench him. The whole suicide story that Fisher put out there? Even the police involved questioned and didn't see the threat. But after Collin's success, no way Fisher was going back to VY.

Onto this season. VY looked very good in a couple preseason games. Horrible (as the whole team did) against Dallas, and so-so in the one other. But the QB position was never an open compe ion. One of KC's demands to return was him to be guaranteed the starting job - what Fisher was too willing to accept. He regretted it when Cutler became available because he tried to trade for him but no dice.

Anyway, where it is now - Fisher never wants VY to start in Tenn again. Him asking out of the game was a cardinal sin in Fisher's mind - he's dead to him. But Fisher didn't chose for VY to start the first time - Owner Bud Adams did. Fisher of course went on with it because he was really on the hot seat and VY saved his job.

Now, I fully expect Tenn to be 0-6 with Indy and NE next up on the schedule. Then Bud will again make VY the starter. Mike Heimerdinger actually has advocated using VY more this year but Fisher isn't hearing it. This time, if/when VY gets in the lineup and they win, it won't save Fisher's job, it will get him fired because his personal bias is hurting the franchise.

Fisher always has shown too much loyalty to old vet players instead of playing the guys with talent. Guys like Keith Bulluck had to sit a year or 2 before they were starters even though they were clearly talented. Fisher is a great coach to motivate a rebuilding club but he doesn't have the creativity or vision to get a team over the top to the promise land.

BTW - Next season will be an uncapped season. If Bud wants VY (which he does now) he'll stay. If Fisher still has almost complete control as he does now (he's the de facto GM and in charge of personnel) then VY will be gone after the season. Haynesworth knew he was gone for the same reasons - Tenn never even made him a real offer. Again, he got in Fisher's doghouse and once there, you're gone in Tenn.

[2Cleva]

Just got word that the ans owner already has made the call for VY to start. Not sure if Fisher is agreeing but VY will be freed to a degree. I'm guessing Fisher tries to run the ball a lot more (Collins has the 2nd most pass attempts in the league, despite Tenn only down big in their last game) to stay close and prevent VY from getting on the field.

[dirk4mvp]

College Football H.O.F. Without a doubt.

He also said he was a lock for the nfl hall of fame.


lol vince young homers

[TFloss32]

Tell me how Chris Simms wouldn't be a better than VY?

Oh right because VY won in college and you are probably a UT homer. I get it.

No, you tell me how Chris Simms would be a better option than VY. I've already brought facts to the table. You're the one spouting off criticism (probably because you've waited to hate on this guy for years) without any logic behind it. You can only go so far when trashing someone before you start losing credibility. Nobody would take Simms over VY in their right mind. Get real Gonzo. In addition to that, why would it matter if I was a UT homer or not? Both Simms and VY went to UT! Solid argument .

Actually, after his second year, Mawae pretty much confirmed that the guy is an idiot. KM went on the radio and said VY didn't know many of the play calls, formations, etc and instead of calling a TO, just improvised and did what he wanted. Coaches love that.

Yes, you just reiterated what I stated previously. The majority of people didn't start criticizing VY until his second year in the NFL. I'm aware of the interview with Kevin Mawae. He did mention he had his doubts about VY being able to understand an NFL offense. But, to Vince's credit, he also stated that he felt VY's "lack of progress" was due to the fact that there were also lots of young players in the huddle who didn't quite have a grasp of the offense themeselves. Mawae admitted that the lack of offensive weapons around Vince seriously hurt their offense, especially when injuries came into play.

He wasn't impressive as a passer his rookie year. Almost of the plays he made were done with his legs. His mechanics were poor, slow release and his ability to read defenses was poor. But he was a rook, and a lot of rookie QBs come into the NFL overwhelmed. Hence, the pass.

That still doesn't take away from what he accomplished during his rookie year. And a quarterbacks mechanics are a quarterbacks mechanics. He throws in the NFL the way he's thrown his entire life. Plus, great mechanics does not necessarily mean success in the NFL.

Was he really far and away the most impressive rookie? MJD had an amazing rookie year with 16 TDs, the 3rd most all-purpose yards for a rook in the history of the game and the best YPC in the NFL since some guy named Barry.

MJD was robbed and the only reason VY won it is because QBs trump RBs in these types of votes.

IMO (and many others) VY was the most impressive offensive rookie in the 2006 season. He played 3 less games than MJD and still had 500 more total yards and more touchdowns. MJD was also on a better team than VY. How was he robbed of the Offensive ROY of the year exactly?

Your argument that QBs always trump RBs in this kind of voting couldn't be more incorrect. Besides VY and Ben Roethlisberger, you have to go all the way back to 1970 to find a QB who won the Offensive ROY. RBs and WRs always win this award...not QBs.

And proven he can play? GTFO. The league is littered with guys that have one good year or a good stretch of games, go to the playoffs and are never heard from again. Just ask Tim Couch.

True...and how many years have those guys been in the NFL? A lot longer than Vince has. The guy has had ONE good year and ONE bad year. Yet you've somehow come to the conclusion that he's incapable of being an NFL quarterback? A "sop re slump" happens to many, many athletes. You're being extremely premature when trashing VY. And let's wait until Vince sinks to the depths of the CFL or gets banned for HGH before we compare him to Tim Couch. You're starting to reach for comparisons like Gonzo.

Yes, they went to the playoffs in spite of VY. His decision making got even worse his second year when he the option to run wasn't as pronounced because of a quad injury and because defensive coordinators simply made VY beat them. Unless you think a 1:1.89 TD/INT ratio is good.

Smartest thing you've said so far. So, what about in 2006 when the ans barely missed the Playoffs because of everything VY did, and in spite of what the rest of the team failed to do? The guy went 8-5 with basically the worst defense in the league (31st out of 32). Once again, one bad year and one good year.

All this and we haven't even discussed his implosion last year. Fisher can't trust the guy and it shows in his reluctance to start him on an 0-4 team that needs a spark.

Vince's "disappearance" was unfortunate and showed his immaturity as a professional. However, Jeff Fisher has never had confidence in VY or been comfortable with him leading the team. Fisher and Norm Chow didn't even want to draft Vince Young...they wanted Matt Leinart. Bud Adams will be the reason VY gets any playing time in the immediate future. Jeff Fisher will hold onto Collins as long as he can even though he should be thanking Vince for saving his ass/job in 2006.

This. Still, I would like to see him get some sort of redemption out of this fiasco. He can't play much worse than Collins is right now (well, hopefully). If they lose the next one, I'm sure that he will at least get one shot before they yank him real quick and put in Ramsey.

Ramsey was cut on Saturday so that the ans could activate a player fom the practice squad. Collins and VY are the only QBs on the roster as of right now.

[TFloss32]

Great analysis 2Cleva. Some people can't see the situation for what it is. The guy needs a fresh start.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Now it's a conspiracy? Too funny.

I can see the situation for what it it is. You pretty much absolved VY of any wrong doing.

Him being a dolt that doesn't know the playbook? That's the fault of the other young guys on the team.

Him breaking down and bailing on his teammates? That goes all the way back to the draft and it's Fisher's fault.

Him not being able to throw the ball? Needs playmakers, which oddly enough makes a QB make better reads and speeds up a piss-poor throwing motion.

He can bounce back, but I highly doubt he's worked on his game enough, or at all, to be a successful QB. Lost in his meltdown last year was the fact that he was simply awful in the preseason and in that JAX game.

And did you really say that Vince was the only reason they went 8-3 his rookie year? You do realize that his inept D carried him in a few games where he had a hard time completing 8 passes, right?

Unless he's the one who made all those D/ST TD returns, too.

[2Cleva]

Not a conspiracy.

Jeff Fisher is known to take things very personnel and hold grudges when it comes to players on the team. Nothing new. VY pissed him off. End of Story with regards to Fisher.

[Dr. Gonzo]

No, you tell me how Chris Simms would be a better option than VY. I've already brought facts to the table. You're the one spouting off criticism (probably because you've waited to hate on this guy for years) without any logic behind it. You can only go so far when trashing someone before you start losing credibility. Nobody would take Simms over VY in their right mind. Get real Gonzo. In addition to that, why would it matter if I was a UT homer or not? Both Simms and VY went to UT! Solid argument .

Chris Simms has had a productive season which his numbers, QB Rating, Yards, TD/INT ratio are all better than VY in his best season.

In 2005 Simms had 2035 yards passing 10 TDs and 7 INTs with a 81.4 QB rating.

In VY's best year, which was 2006, he had 2199 yards passing 12 TDs and 13 INTs with a 66.7 QB rating.

In their best seasons, which were only 1 year apart, they up similar passing yard but Simms was able to throw more TD passes with less INTs and has a much high QB rating. He can throw the ball well and is the type of QB the Fisher likes. A smart one that can throw farther than 15 yards down field and isn't a complete dumb .

To UT homers, VY is God. There is no QB that will do greater to him in their eyes. Even if Simms was a UT QB he will never be seen in the same level as VY.

And to the dude that said Fisher hates running QBs, what do you think McNair was? He came from an option offense at Alcorn State and was always seen as a running QB.

[Blake]

lol boards biggest dumb talking

lol beefanus > you

keep your credit union day job. that beefanus routine you got going is less than unfunny.

lol, you thinking the raiders were gonna be badass this year

lol, ing idiot

[Cant_Be_Faded]

If they keep losing, and VY says the right things, he has an outside chance to be played.

If he wins more games than he loses while playing, that will be that.

[Blake]

And to the dude that said Fisher hates running QBs, what do you think McNair was? He came from an option offense at Alcorn State and was always seen as a running QB.

McNair passed for 14,000 yards in college and was in the shotgun 90% of the time.

[stretch]

keep your credit union day job. that beefanus routine you got going is less than unfunny.

lol, you thinking the raiders were gonna be badass this year

lol, ing idiot

lol thinking im beefanus

lol thinking tech was ever relevant

lol cant think of his own schtick so you copy mine

lol also copying dirk4mvp in thinking im beefanus and making fun of the raiders every chance you get

lol get your own ing jokes got

McNair passed for 14,000 yards in college and was in the shotgun 90% of the time.

lol saying someone smart for once

he wasnt called "air mcnair" for nothing

[dirk4mvp]

of course phillip would be a mcnair fanatic.

[Dr. Gonzo]

To say he was not a rushing QB at the start of his career is inaccurate. He rushed for over 600 yards his first full year as a starter. Slowly he became more of a passer than rusher.

[Kermit]

To say he was not a rushing QB at the start of his career is inaccurate. He rushed for over 600 yards his first full year as a starter. Slowly he became more of a passer than rusher.

Well, if he plays they should probably go back to that model considering that everytime he throws the ball it's either an interception or an incompletion.

[MajorMike]

Fearless prediction:
Young will be cut during the offseason; bank on it.

[dirk4mvp]

I wonder if Young would get so much unwarranted praise if he went to Southern Idaho Junior College.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I wonder if Young would get so much unwarranted praise if he went to Southern Idaho Junior College.

Obviously not, beating the Colt's 3rd string defense to make the playoffs deserves praise!!!

[J.T.]

I wonder if Young would get so much unwarranted praise if he went to Southern Idaho Junior College.

Sounds like that school doesn't even have a football team

[TFloss32]

Now it's a conspiracy? Too funny.

I can see the situation for what it it is. You pretty much absolved VY of any wrong doing.

Him being a dolt that doesn't know the playbook? That's the fault of the other young guys on the team.

.

Conspiracy? Hardly. You know it's not because VY failing means Jeff Fisher and Norm Chow fail as well. Vince was the reason Jeff Fisher kept his job in 2006 after the ans started exactly the same way they've started 2009.

No, I'm not absolving him of doing anything wrong. I already admitted he had a bad second year. I was simply paraphrasing what Kevin Mawae stated in his interview. He mentioned Vince's lack of development was partly due to the lack of offensive weapons and inexperience around him. I, basically, implied that it doesn't help when you have a coach that doesn't like you, players who don't know what they're doing themselves and veterans failing to correct you when you make mistakes.

And did you really say that Vince was the only reason they went 8-3 his rookie year? You do realize that his inept D carried him in a few games where he had a hard time completing 8 passes, right?

No, I said Vince went 8-5. Two of those game that he completed 8 passes, he didn't throw more than 15 times. For Vince to lead a previously 4-12 team with the 31st worst defense in the league and barely miss the Playoffs, that says something. Give credit where credit is due.

Chris Simms has had a productive season which his numbers, QB Rating, Yards, TD/INT ratio are all better than VY in his best season.

Funny how you compare Simms' best season to VY's rookie season and the numbers are hardly better. Factor in what Vince did with his legs and it's no contest. There's a reason Simms is currently on the third team of his career.

Even if Simms was a UT QB he will never be seen in the same level as VY.

Chris Simms was a UT QB. He'll never be seen on the same level because he was the obnoxious son of an NFL Hall-of-Famer who played over Major Applewhite and made terrible decisions. Plus, VY is arguably the best college player ever. Of course he's not on the same level as VY! Simms' stats may say otherwise, but he's not even seen as a Top 5 QB in the history of the school because he never accomplished anything important like the following guys: Young, McCoy, Applewhite, Street and Layne.

Obviously not, beating the Colt's 3rd string defense to make the playoffs deserves praise!!!

Beating the defending champion Colts in 2006 or losing to them twice by a combined three points doesn't count though...

I wonder if Young would get so much unwarranted praise if he went to Southern Idaho Junior College.

Hey, the Golden Eagles are legit...

[Dr. Gonzo]

Funny how you compare Simms' best season to VY's rookie season and the numbers are hardly better. Factor in what Vince did with his legs and it's no contest. There's a reason Simms is currently on the third team of his career.

VY's rookie season was his best season and will be the best season of his career.

[IronMexican]

VY just needs to do what McNabb is. A Quarterback who can run, and not a running Quarterback.

A lot harder than it sounds, though.

[TFloss32]

VY's rookie season was his best season and will be the best season of his career.

Bold statement for a guy who's been in the league two years. Are you sure you're a doctor?

[Dr. Gonzo]

VY just needs to do what McNabb is. A Quarterback who can run, and not a running Quarterback.

A lot harder than it sounds, though.

McNabb has a good arm and is an accurate passer. VY is not. That's the difference.