Monroe: Finley now Spurs' reluctant elder

[Fabbs]

btw here are but two of his 40+ playoff games, (47 each to be exact), vs Dallas 2006, granted both OTs. And both losses. And the 2nd being an elimination game.
And vs. the team that paid him 20 million to leave.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=260515006
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=260522024

Here's another beauty, the WCFs Game 1 vs the Lakers.
0-5 in 22 minutes to go with his usual sucky D. (Bowen 5-8)
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=280521013
3-9 Gm 2 to drop up to 0-2 (Bowen 3-5)
0-2 in Gm 4 when Mr. Finley finally took him out as Barrdog was nailing treys (oh yeah Bruce 3-5 again to go with real defense).

That's enough.

[portnoy1]

1 le in 4 years. All with the idea that Finley was brought in 2006 just to be an off the bench spark and get a le. Props Fin for 2007, now step aside gracefully for better players.

since my quote was 25-45 in "many a playoff game"....Finley has 25-45 many a reg and playoff game, much to the Spurs downfall.

We chronicled last year how well Mason was doing until Popped jacked with him at point guard while removing GHill from point guard (44-22 record with Hill at that). Bowen outdid Finley at the small wing both defensively (duh) and offensively vs Dallas in last years playoffs.

Bottom line is he gets to many minutes. People like to say that lack of talent is responsible for that. Thats only half the problem, the other half is that Pop likes Finley. In the same Series Matt Bonner was the Starting Center. Dampier was getting O boards left and Right, Popovich knows just like the rest of us that Bonner is not a great rebounder. Pop had Thomas/Oberto/Gooden all statistically and realistically better rebounders than Bonner. However Bonner didn't lose his starter spot although he was not hitting 3's or getting rebounds. Finley didn't play any better than mason did in last season's playoff lost to Dallas. However when there was a need for a change defensively; Bowen ofcourse got the Nod and he replaced Mason jr. in the starting lineup instead of old-man Finley taking a sitdown. Pop coulda even played hill at the 2 since Dallas was small all the time with a 3 guard rotation of Jkidd/Barea/Terry but he didn't, he stuck with Finley and Bonner.

[Kori Ellis]

1 le in 4 years. All with the idea that Finley was brought in 2006 just to be an off the bench spark and get a le. Props Fin for 2007, now step aside gracefully for better players.

Tim, Tony, Manu and Bowen all had 1 le in 4 years too.. not just Finley.

since my quote was 25-45 in "many a playoff game"....Finley has 25-45 many a reg and playoff game, much to the Spurs downfall.

He's averaged 26 mpg in the playoffs with the Spurs. He's also been the leading scorer every year in the postseason outside of the Big 3.

We chronicled last year how well Mason was doing until Popped jacked with him at point guard while removing GHill from point guard (44-22 record with Hill at that).

Pop moving Mason to point didn't cause the guy to be the turnstile that he was on D in the postseason vs Dallas... that was all on Mason.

Bowen outdid Finley at the small wing both defensively (duh) and offensively vs Dallas in last years playoffs.

Even if that were true -- you need TWO wing players on the floor. So Bowen and ... who did you want the Spurs to play? Udoka?

I think it simply nuts to try to pin the Spurs playoff record in the last four years on Finley.

And I think he'll play about 12-15 mpg .. some games he'll probably play closer to 20, and I think he'll rack up some DNP-CDs too.

[portnoy1]

Finley is not that bad, its just that some of the younger athletic guys on the team lose important minutes cause Pops love for Finley. He can still do alot of things offensively, unfortunately the spurs just use him as a spot up shooter. Hill lost time to him last year in the playoffs along with Mason Jr.

[Mel_13]

Finley is not that bad, its just that some of the younger athletic guys on the team lose important minutes cause Pops love for Finley. He can still do alot of things offensively, unfortunately the spurs just use him as a spot up shooter. Hill lost time to him last year in the playoffs along with Mason Jr.

Who are these younger, athletic guys from whom Finley stole minutes?

In 2005-2006?

In 2006-2007?

In 2007-2008?

In 2008-2009?

I look forward to your answers.

[Fabbs]

Tim, Tony, Manu and Bowen all had 1 le in 4 years too.. not just Finley.

So we agree!? The Big Three with Brucie Bowen added were on a 2 of 3 roll and Finley was considered one of the prize FA side pieces of summer 2005 leading into 2006. Instead Pop-A-Coatail abandons Championship winning ball for small ball and plays Finley 47 two games and how many the rest? Owned by the Mavs and their rookie coach. Slice it any way you want, Finley joins the Spurs and plays much more then the off the bench 10-15 we all thought he would and the Spurs mini Dynasty plans are derailed. Meanwhile Dallas beats us twice.

He's averaged 26 mpg in the playoffs with the Spurs. He's also been the leading scorer every year in the postseason outside of the Big 3.

Exactly. What happened to the "10-15" off the bench role player? 4th leading scorer? Big deal. He has carte blance freedom to shoot from his husband and plays zero D, not to mention all the stuff that does not show up in the boxscores (tipping passes, altering shots, boxing out on D). As the Spurs abandoned their Tough D personality and began losing in the playoffs.
(Now granted Bavettas b.s. vs Timmy D on Dirk cost us one game whereupon we did play classis tough Spurs D.)

Pop moving Mason to point didn't cause the guy to be the turnstile that he was on D in the postseason vs Dallas... that was all on Mason.

No but all the bball intelligents on the board agreed it jacked with Mason and GHills head. Doesn't excuse Masons D but why change.
What the excuse for Finleys turnstile D?

Even if that were true -- you need TWO wing players on the floor. So Bowen and ... who did you want the Spurs to play? Udoka?

Lewie Scola

I think it simply nuts to try to pin the Spurs playoff record in the last four years on Finley.

There is no denying the Spurs winning playoff record and style comparison before and after Finley. Nor Dallas'.

And I think he'll play about 12-15 mpg .. some games he'll probably play closer to 20, and I think he'll rack up some DNP-CDs too.

We've been hearing that for 4 straight years, we shall see. Pops quotes in this article don't give any indication we will not see the same b.s. continued.

[portnoy1]

Who are these younger, athletic guys from whom Finley stole minutes?

In 2005-2006?

In 2006-2007?

In 2007-2008?

In 2008-2009?

I look forward to your answers.

I answered it in my last post. I wasn't talking about previous years just last season. Ghill and Mason Jr.

[UnWantedTheory]

btw here are but two of his 40+ playoff games, (47 each to be exact), vs Dallas 2006, granted both OTs. And both losses. And the 2nd being an elimination game.
And vs. the team that paid him 20 million to leave.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=260515006
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=260522024

Here's another beauty, the WCFs Game 1 vs the Lakers.
0-5 in 22 minutes to go with his usual sucky D. (Bowen 5-8)
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=280521013
3-9 Gm 2 to drop up to 0-2 (Bowen 3-5)
0-2 in Gm 4 when Mr. Finley finally took him out as Barrdog was nailing treys (oh yeah Bruce 3-5 again to go with real defense).

That's enough.

Using stats from over 3 years ago when he was 33? Different team and different time.

[Mel_13]

I answered it in my last post. I wasn't talking about previous years just last season. Ghill and Mason Jr.

@ Mason being more athletic. Mason averaged 30.4 minutes per game. How many more minutes do you think he could actually play?

Hill is 6' 1'', don't think he could play too much SF.

[portnoy1]

I was thinking 2 guard not SF ( Bowen/Udoka )

[portnoy1]

hill 6-2 and a crazy wingspan/athleticism. Mason Jr. got his minutes taken from him in the Playoffs by Finley.

[lurker23]

The Finley haters are ridiculous, as always. I've said it before and I'll say it again: many contending teams would love to have a guy like Finley for less than $3 million. He's a solid, no drama veteran who shoots at a clip few can match, whether they be 35 or 25 years old. On defense he's no Bruce Bowen, but there are plenty of other NBA players who are worse defenders.

I'm not saying the guy is LeBron James. I'm not even saying he's a starting player on a championship team anymore. But for 10-20 minutes a game, he can be quite good. Many have argued that he gets too many minutes under Pop. Sometimes, this has been the result of Pop's bias toward veterans; more often, it has been because, due to injury or lack of depth, Finley was the best option. If the Spurs have a healthy Ginobili and Jefferson, Finley should be able to slide into a more comfortable position minutes-wise and responsibilities-wise, one that is more fitting the point he's at in his career.

[Kori Ellis]

We've been hearing that for 4 straight years, we shall see. Pops quotes in this article don't give any indication we will not see the same b.s. continued.

No you haven't. You have been wishing but you haven't been hearing it. In previous years, he was the first wing off the bench -- the main backup to Manu/Bowen, and expected to play around 25 mpg... which he did.

With RJ here now, a healthy Manu, and TP/Hill getting playing time together, there's really not much room this year for Finley to get more than 15 mpg unless someone get hurt.

And, I won't even comment on the fact you wanted Scola to play the wing for the Spurs.

[Fabbs]

Using stats from over 3 years ago when he was 33? Different team and different time.

2008 playoff series vs Lakers started May 21, 2008 so that was a whole 17 months ago. Should we break out his stats vs Bruces' in last years 1-4 loss vs, who is that team, oh yeah Dallas. Again.
As to his being 33 vs Dallas I in 2006, yes shouldn't Finley have been that much better?

[Kori Ellis]

hill 6-2 and a crazy wingspan/athleticism. Mason Jr. got his minutes taken from him in the Playoffs by Finley.

Mason shot 37% in the playoffs and was the worst defender on the court. He's lucky he even played 22 mpg.

[Mel_13]

So we agree!? The Big Three with Brucie Bowen added were on a 2 of 3 roll and Finley was considered one of the prize FA side pieces of summer 2005 leading into 2006. Instead Pop-A-Coatail abandons Championship winning ball for small ball and plays Finley 47 two games and how many the rest? Owned by the Mavs and their rookie coach. Slice it any way you want, Finley joins the Spurs and plays much more then the off the bench 10-15 we all thought he would and the Spurs mini Dynasty plans are derailed. Meanwhile Dallas beats us twice.

I've tried, without success, to get you to give a straight answer before. I'll try again.

Let's assume that what you say here is the absolute truth and that Pop's performance in the 2006 playoffs was worthy of his dismissal.

So, it's the day after Game 7 and Fabbs has been granted the authority to fix the situation. So after firing Pop and waiving Finley, you must now identify the man to lead the Spurs back from the debacle of the 2006 loss to Dallas.

I challenge to provide a straight answer.

Name your top 3 choices to succeed Pop after you fire him on May 23, 2006. To make things easier you may name any coach who was available for hire between May 22, 2006 and today.

Just three names, please.

[Fabbs]

No you haven't. You have been wishing but you haven't been hearing it. In previous years, he was the first wing off the bench -- the main backup to Manu/Bowen, and expected to play around 25 mpg... which he did.

And, I won't even comment on the fact you wanted Scola to play the wing for the Spurs.

I think some search feature would show plenty of 10-15 minute expectation with occasional bursts of up to 25. Not regular 25s with many a 40 in key playoff games! Losses to boot.

Are you gonna comment on his 25+ including 40+ playoff games?

A Scola Dunkar Bruce frontline you don't like? Oh well.

[lurker23]

With RJ here now, a healthy Manu, and TP/Hill getting playing time together, there's really not much room this year for Finley to get more than 15 mpg unless someone get hurt.

Exactly. There's only 96 minutes of SG/SF minutes to go around, maybe 106 if the Spurs play small ball for a while. In a playoff game, Jefferson will play 35 minutes and Ginobili will play 30 minutes. That leaves about 30-40 minutes. Unless you think Pop will completely bench Mason, Hairston, Bogans, and only play Hill 10 mpg (backup PG only), there's not going to be much more than 10-20 minutes left for Finley.

[UnWantedTheory]

So we agree!? The Big Three with Brucie Bowen added were on a 2 of 3 roll and Finley was considered one of the prize FA side pieces of summer 2005 leading into 2006. Instead Pop-A-Coatail abandons Championship winning ball for small ball and plays Finley 47 two games and how many the rest? Owned by the Mavs and their rookie coach. Slice it any way you want, Finley joins the Spurs and plays much more then the off the bench 10-15 we all thought he would and the Spurs mini Dynasty plans are derailed. Meanwhile Dallas beats us twice.


Exactly. What happened to the "10-15" off the bench role player? 4th leading scorer? Big deal. He has carte blance freedom to shoot from his husband and plays zero D, not to mention all the stuff that does not show up in the boxscores (tipping passes, altering shots, boxing out on D). As the Spurs abandoned their Tough D personality and began losing in the playoffs.
(Now granted Bavettas b.s. vs Timmy D on Dirk cost us one game whereupon we did play classis tough Spurs D.)

No but all the bball intelligents on the board agreed it jacked with Mason and GHills head. Doesn't excuse Masons D but why change.
What the excuse for Finleys turnstile D?


Lewie Scola

There is no denying the Spurs winning playoff record and style comparison before and after Finley. Nor Dallas'.


We've been hearing that for 4 straight years, we shall see. Pops quotes in this article don't give any indication we will not see the same b.s. continued.

Then it must be true. I think I will stick with the Orgs. opinion over all of the bball intelligents on here.


And again, different teams at different times.
You cant really compare his minutes at 32-33 to those of which will be coming up, years later, at the age of 36. Quit with the weather forecasts and the wannabe history lessons regarding this crap.

I am not a diehard Fin supporter, but some of what you people say regarding him is just pure bull . It seems we like our scapegoats on here. Also, regarding our Vets this year, how many know our system? Do you want Bonner to be one of our vocal leaders too? Timmy, Manu, and Tp can only do so much. We only have so many players left over from years past.

[UnWantedTheory]

2008 playoff series vs Lakers started May 21, 2008 so that was a whole 17 months ago. Should we break out his stats vs Bruces' in last years 1-4 loss vs, who is that team, oh yeah Dallas. Again.
As to his being 33 vs Dallas I in 2006, yes shouldn't Finley have been that much better?

Again due to lack of options. Who else was there? Gino was hurt was he not? I suppose you would prefer an inefficient offensive game going with Bowen or udoka then. We needed scoring which has been for quite some time(without all the big 3) one of our downfalls. Despite what he did or didnt do, we had to go with the potentially better offensive game.

[loveforthegame]

Might as well blame Finley for the health of Duncan and Ginobli that last two post seasons too. That couldn't possibly have anything to do with the struggles and early exits.

[exstatic]

Like Finley since 2007?
Unreal how you PopaFinley supporters keep spinning this.

Uh, I am no Finley apologist. I was disappointed by him picking up his option this year. I was simply pointing out that Fin is two years younger than Bowen, and that makes a difference, no matter what conditioning you do.

[ElNono]

No you haven't. You have been wishing but you haven't been hearing it. In previous years, he was the first wing off the bench -- the main backup to Manu/Bowen, and expected to play around 25 mpg... which he did.

Not last season. Even your husband commented the mistake the Spurs were making by extending Fin for two seasons, and the only caveat was if Fin would have played for 15 or so minutes on a reduced role.
I couldn't agree more with him, except I was pretty sure Pop would give him the bulk of minutes. I just expected Pop to take the minutes away from Mason, not Bowen.
This is a guy whose last playoff series should have been vs the Lakers in the WCF a season ago.

But here we are. Unless Pop pulls a Bowen-alike retirement season for Fin, he's going to be playing more than 15 mins a game.

[benefactor]

When I saw this thread this morning I knew it would be littered with Fabbs posts before the afternoon was out.

I am on the fence about Finley. With the new additions I am much more at ease than I was last year, but I still don't fully trust Pop with him. I really, REALLY hope everyone stays healthy...because that will be the key to keeping Finley in the range of minutes that best plays to his strengths.

[portnoy1]

In that case will Bonner start?