Do you believe in god?

[fyatuk]

Depends on your definition of god, but by my definition, then yes.

I do not believe in the Judeo/Christian/Islamic god that most people mean when they ask "Do you believe in god."

[doobs]

Ah... so believing in my Flying Spaghetti Monster is as rational as not believing in him?

Again, I'm just talking about the narrow issue of existence. Once you start telling stories about who God is and what he thinks or does or whether it's a Flying Spaghetti Monster, then you start losing me. Religious texts like the Bible, IMO, basically filled in the blanks about morality and nature for God-fearing people, and were far more useful when people were less enlightened.

But is the universe the creation of a Supreme Being? I see no real difference between believing the answer is yes or no.

[doobs]

Only after you explain your proposition that belief in God can be reconciled with science...

Because God's existence can't be disproven by science. Now we're going in circles because you can't comprehend that simple point.

[doobs]

Just because God can't be disproven doesn't necessarily mean that it is equally rational to believe in him or not believe in him.

But his non-existence can't be proven, either. To believe that he does not exist is a belief.

[spurster]

Why is it important to God that I believe in God? Whether God exists or not does not depend on what I believe. A God with self-esteem issues or in some way needs my validation (or else!) is not much of a God in my view.

[LnGrrrR]

But his non-existence can't be proven, either. To believe that he does not exist is a belief.

Eh, now we're playing with the term 'belief'.

Do you have a 'belief' that I don't have three heads? Technically, yes. But it's not the same 'belief' that people talk about regarding their faith system.

[MiamiHeat]

If humans invented them, then they exist. Maybe you'd care to reword this question?

No, they don't exist.

If I invent an idea that I have super powers and I can fly and lift 3000 lbs, does it mean those super powers exist?

ideas are just that. they don't really exist, we made them up.

don't play semantics

[LnGrrrR]

But is the universe the creation of a Supreme Being? I see no real difference between believing the answer is yes or no.

Other than applying Occam's razor, then there is no big difference, I agree.

[LnGrrrR]

No, they don't exist.

If I invent an idea that I have super powers and I can fly and lift 3000 lbs, does it mean those super powers exist?

ideas are just that. they don't really exist, we made them up.

don't play semantics

No, but the IDEA of superpowers exist, obviously. Superpowers are tangible, so they can be disproven. But good and evil obviously exist as ideas/feelings, as does pain, hunger, etc.

The difference between pain/hunger/other basic feelings is that, to understand good and evil, you have to have some sort of morality. Without such knowledge, your actions are not good or evil; they just are.

[ElNono]

Because God's existence can't be disproven by science. Now we're going in circles because you can't comprehend that simple point.

I can't disprove you're an idiot. Thus you must be.

See where the logical fallacy is in your argument?

[LnGrrrR]

MiamiHeat, perhaps you meant to ask if there was a UNIVERSAL good or evil?

[LnGrrrR]

I can't disprove you're an idiot. Thus you must be.

See where the logical fallacy is in your argument?

To be fair, Elnono, his argument goes that since you can't prove he's not an idiot, then it's perfectly rational to assume he is an idiot, or he isn't an idiot, and it makes no difference between the two.

[BacktoBasics]

I can't disprove you're an idiot. Thus you must be.

See where the logical fallacy is in your argument?

He has a point. It can't be disproven by science. Not now. This goes back to the argument being religion related over "God" related. I don't think religion has a leg to stand on. Can't say the same for a higher power....just too vague as to what that could potentially mean.

[ElNono]

He has a point.

He doesn't.

It can't be disproven by science. Not now.

See, now you're on to something...

[SnakeBoy]

As much as I dislike most organized religion, I would never let the stupidity of man affect my belief in God.

Believing in the non-existence of God is no more rational than believing in the existence of God. Belief in God can always be reconciled with science. (I'm talking about the narrow issue of whether or not God exists; God's nonexistence cannot be proven.)

I guess believing in a Supreme Being makes life seem more meaningful or ordered. It's comforting. I can admit that.

Most of my life I was agnostic although I always felt the presence of God in my life. It wasn't until I grew older that I was really able to seperate the actions of man from my belief in God. When I talk to agnostic/athiests that I know they always point to the past actions of man/church as an argument against God but their really talking about the actions of man, they just can't make the seperation.

Now I attend catholic church every sunday and I do find the act of going to church and bowing down before a higher power to be comforting. It helps that the church I attend has a really good priest. A few weeks ago he gave a great sermon about the hypocrisy of the church and all of us. Some people looked pissed at having their priest calling them and the church hypocrites to their face but I quite enjoyed having him tell them the truth.

The only thing I disagree with you on is believe in God being reconciled with science. I think it's the opposite, believe in science can always be reconciled with the belief in God.

[ElNono]

Let me state that I actually have no problem with people that do believe in God. I'm actually glad that it's what works for them.

I think some people need to state (as some of you did) what do you believe God to be. There's all sorts of beliefs out there. From people that think an advanced alien race out there being the definition of God (or Gods), to the mystical, supernatural, spiritual, etc.

[ElNono]

(remove dupe post)

[rjv]

i have yet to read a single post in this thread that is not metaphysics.

[LnGrrrR]

i have yet to read a single post in this thread that is not metaphysics.

What were you expecting?

[101A]

Living in a college town, by belief is God is reaffirmed all the time.

For instance: Yesterday I rode over to campus to pick my wife up. While waiting behind the science building for her, a young lady came out of the building sporting one of the latest fashion trends on campus: a mans dress shirt, no visible shorts or skirt; with a belt around the waist. I literally uttered "Oh my God" - completely reflexively, without thinking, a spontaneous prayer of thanks and praise to the wonderful creator who made such a site possible. I could tell some of the young gentlemen college students were uttering/thinking the same praise as they also bore witness.

Here's praying this joyous trend spreads to a community to you.

[rjv]

What were you expecting?

pretty much what i have seen. and yet i can anticipate another 20 pages or so of it.

[LnGrrrR]

Living in a college town, by belief is God is reaffirmed all the time.

For instance: Yesterday I rode over to campus to pick my wife up. While waiting behind the science building for her, a young lady came out of the building sporting one of the latest fashion trends on campus: a mans dress shirt, no visible shorts or skirt; with a belt around the waist. I literally uttered "Oh my God" - completely reflexively, without thinking, a spontaneous prayer of thanks and praise to the wonderful creator who made such a site possible. I could tell some of the young gentlemen college students were uttering/thinking the same praise as they also bore witness.

Here's praying this joyous trend spreads to a community to you.

[rjv]

Living in a college town, by belief is God is reaffirmed all the time.

For instance: Yesterday I rode over to campus to pick my wife up. While waiting behind the science building for her, a young lady came out of the building sporting one of the latest fashion trends on campus: a mans dress shirt, no visible shorts or skirt; with a belt around the waist. I literally uttered "Oh my God" - completely reflexively, without thinking, a spontaneous prayer of thanks and praise to the wonderful creator who made such a site possible. I could tell some of the young gentlemen college students were uttering/thinking the same praise as they also bore witness.

Here's praying this joyous trend spreads to a community to you.

this argument is no good without pics.

[SnakeBoy]

i have yet to read a single post in this thread that is not metaphysics.

That's like complaining that all the posts in a thread about the financial system could be catergorized as posts about the economy. The op asked about belief in the general concept of God not specific religions therefore it shouldn't be a suprise to you that all the posts sound like metaphysics.

[rjv]

That's like complaining that all the posts in a thread about the financial system could be catergorized as posts about the economy. The op asked about belief in the general concept of God not specific religions therefore it shouldn't be a suprise to you that all the posts sound like metaphysics.

my point is that from a philosophical point of view, once a statment attempts to state anything that is not tautology then it becomes metaphysical in nature.

heck, even the statement "only statements that can be verified analytically or empirically are true" is metaphysical.