No they don't hate our freedoms, because most cant even recognize what
freedoms we do have. You see Manny, you have never lived in countries
where they don't have our freedoms. In most you would not, on a short
visit, notice they don't have our freedoms. They do not like the fact we
have the strip joints (girlie shows). Although it is quite alright that they
have their "red light" districts where women are sent for many reasons to
take care of the clients that visit the district. And I might add they women
are not allowed to leave the "compound" as it is refered to. Do you ever
wonder why most of Christians left Iraq after Hussein took over? Did you
know that his party was/is Communist. Did you know that the Talaban
was supported by Russia? Funny part about our (Muslim and Christian) is
that our two books on religion are much the same in their teachings and
writings. But the hard line Musims, rest assured, do hate Christians no
end and have for many hundreds of years. Much of what is happening now
is a carry-over from the crusades when the Muslims were trying to conquer
Europe, much of Spain shows this influence and they are still fighting
factions of this part of History.
One thing I didn't understand is your statement: "namely other countries
not named the United States.....being attacked."
Yes Yes, I know strippers are their main motivations and how much they hate red light districts. I expect the Dutch must really be full of fear at this very moment, being at the least a country with equal freedoms yet much more sexuality. Amsterdam: Future site of nuclear terrorism.
Food for thought that is probably just going to piss you guys off. But thats ok. I'm resigned myself to the posting of intelligent analysis and actual facts as opposed to engaging in much "debate" in here.
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/icar/..._Terrorism.pdf
A question arising at this point is: what determines whether a person -- willing to
commit acts of violence to achieve his or her goals -- becomes an apocalyptic terrorist
willing to destroy him or herself in the execution of acts of catastrophic violence?
One answer is suggested by one interpretation of the great Abrahamic religion,
Islam. It is clear that for many Arabs and Muslims worldwide, Islam is under siege by U.S.-
directed globalization undergirded by a neo-“Crusader” mentality. This and the U.S. policy
in the Middle East have encouraged some Arabs and Muslims to define Americans,
Israelis, Jews, and Christians as the “Enemy” and, therefore, as targets of rage-based acts
of violent defense of Islamic values.
A case in point is revealed by the 19 young men who committed the catastrophic
acts of 11 September 2001, giving up their lives in the process. They were male, Arab, and
Wahhabist (i.e., Salafi) Muslims. Wahhabism -- a more traditional, and for some, "purer"
form of Islam -- is the brand of Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia since the establishment in
the 18th century of an alliance between the House of Saud and religious reformer
Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab. It is an indelible part of the Saudi state and
consciousness. (Fifteen of the 19 terrorists were Saudi citizens.) More significantly,
Wahhabism is also exported worldwide by the oil-rich state, with the Taliban in Afghanistan
and Pakistan being the most Wahhabist of all.
The main architect or inspiration for the 11 September attacks, Osama bin Laden, is
not only a very wealthy Saudi and founder of the global terrorist group, al Qaeda, but also a
Wahhabist. Since the 1990s, Bin Laden has issued fatwa -- religiously based edicts in
effect declaring war -- against the U.S. and Americans for committing blasphemy against
Islam by stationing in excess of 5,000 U.S. military personnel in Saudi Arabia since the
1990-1991 Gulf War. Saudi Arabia is the site of two of the holiest shrines in Islam: Mecca,
where The Prophet was born, and Medina, where The Prophet established the first Islamic
state.
Osama bin Laden and others like him have additional grievances against the West:
allowing Serbs to slaughter Bosnian Muslims with impunity during the genocidal implosion
of former Yugoslavia during the 1990s; carte blanche U.S. support for nearly everything
that Israel does to the Palestinians; U.S. support for corrupt regimes in the Arab world (e.g.,
in Egypt and Saudi Arabia); and the U.S.-led wars and military occupations in Afghanistan
and Iraq
If Western culture dominates in the Muslim part of the world, the Wizard (Mohammed) behind the smoke and curtain that is Islam will be demonstrated to be the religion of oppression instead of the religion of peace.
That's what the Islamo-fascists are trying to prevent. Period.
They don't hate our freedoms...they fear what freedom will do to their religion. It's all about power.
Okay Manny, never mind, live your life. Obviously you have no knowledge
Yes Yes, I know strippers are their main motivations and how much they hate red light districts. I expect the Dutch must really be full of fear at this very moment, being at the least a country with equal freedoms yet much more sexuality. Amsterdam: Future site of nuclear terrorism.
other than the crap you read and what has been/is being taught in your
educational process (which is questionable, considering some of your
postings). The point I was trying to make was that they too speak out
of both sides of their mouths. They have their red light districts but
condem our country for some of the things that go on in our society. No
you need to watch some of the other news sources in our world. Even
Rush has his points. Most of what he says is what others have written,
and Fox news also gives a pretty good picture of things. Most think
tanks are just that "think tanks". Most news is like a loaf of bread, it is
a commodity, without something to get people to watch your news, you
have no news to "sell". And they wonder why they have no readers, listeners, or readers. Look at the Express-News. They, the libs, bought
a paper that put them out of business and now the winner, they bought,
is losing readership. Son, you and your bunch, are on the losing side.
That is a fact, like it or not. And cursing, putting down and throwing
mud just don't hack it anymore, we too have our sources. Come join
us or just stay on the losing side. Course you have some company in
Carlos Guerra and Ms. Molly Ivins......
If you want to really oversimplify this, Manny; what we have is a minority sect of Islamo-extremists that are bound and determined to make Islam the sole religion of the planet and about a billion other people who say, WTF, we're already Muslim so what's the big deal?
Then on the other side, you have the rest of us who realize that there is no placating or compromising with this ideology so what we have to do is defeat it and continue killing them until the billion sideliners in Islam come to their senses and say, whoa! we'll reign 'em in if you'll stop killing 'em and then -- do it.
Manny, hypothetically, let say the United States pulls the military presence out from everywhere...Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi, support for Isreal. All gone.
Now, do you think the terrorist threat is over at that point.
Or has the damage been done no matter what that US course of action.
Cuz if the damage has been done, then it's too late to play nice guy.
Elimination of the threat is the only option.
People can argue chicken or egg for all eternity, but the bottom line is today and tomorrow, not yesterday.
Agreed. Except for the minority part. Any fence sitter willing to do nothing is the enemy. It isn't just a religion, it's a form of governing ones lives. It's a freakin' cult.If you want to really oversimplify this, Manny; what we have is a minority sect of Islamo-extremists that are bound and determined to make Islam the sole religion of the planet and about a billion other people who say, WTF, we're already Muslim so what's the big deal?
Now, the islamakazis, have moved into the political realm. The are offering a way for the bombings in Britain to stop. In the civilized world, it is called blackmail. Whatever happened to peaceful march protests? That's right these jackasses don't believe in that. It isn't in their field manuel.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...200709_pf.html
Attacks on UK will continue, radical cleric says
By Gideon Long
Reuters
Friday, July 22, 2005; 10:57 AM
LONDON (Reuters) - Militant Islamists will continue to attack Britain until the government pulls its troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan, one of the country's most outspoken Islamic clerics said on Friday.
Speaking 15 days after bombers killed over 50 people in London and a day after a series of failed attacks on the city's transport network, Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammed said the British capital should expect more violence.
"What happened yesterday confirmed that as long as the cause and the root problem is still there ... we will see the same effect we saw on July 7," Bakri said.
"If the cause is still there the effect will happen again and again," he said, adding he had no information about future attacks or contacts with people planning to carry out attacks.
Remeber, these attacks were carried out by british citizens, some of them born there. Alliances are with the Muslims worldwide. Sounds like nothing but a giant gang to me.
Bakri, a Syrian-born cleric who has been vilified in Britain since 2001 when he praised the September 11 hijackers, said he did not believe the bombings and attempted attacks on London were carried out by British Muslims.
He condemned the killing of all innocent civilians but described attacks on British and U.S. troops in Muslim countries as "pro-life" and justified.
In an interview with Reuters, Bakri described Osama bin Laden, leader of the radical Islamist network al Qaeda, as "a sincere man who fights against evil forces."
This tool leads a congregation. If these are his beliefs, don;t ya think the followers believe the same thing? If I didn't like what my pastor was saying, ID MOVE TO A DIFFERENT CHURCH!!!!!
Bakri said he would like Britain to become an Islamic state but feared he would be deported before his dream was realized.
"I would like to see the Islamic flag fly, not only over number 10 Downing Street, but over the whole world," he said.
Over my dead body, !
MESSAGE OF PEACE ... MESSAGE OF WAR
A hate figure for the British tabloid press, the bearded and bespectacled Bakri said Islam contained "a message of peace for those who want to live with the Muslims in peace."
I've heard of that. It's called a dhimmi. Here is the definition:
http://www.secularislam.org/jihad/subjects.htm Most scholars are agreed that, in his dealings with captives, various policies are open to the Imam [head of the Islamic state, caliph]. He may pardon them, enslave them, kill them, or release them either on ransom or as dhimmi [non-Moslem subject of the Islamic state], in which latter case the released captive is obliged to pay poll-tax (jizya).
Cool. Get to pay (or die) to be anything other than Islamic.
Here is a verse: Ibn Khaldun [13]: In the Muslim community, the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and the obligation to convert everybody either by persuasion or by force.Find me a quote in the bible that says this and I'll concede the point. If you can't, STFU.
"But Islam is a message of war for those who declare war against Muslims," he said.
"I condemn any killing and any bombing against any innocent people in Britain or abroad, but I expect the British people to condemn the killing of Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan."
However, asked about Islamist attacks on British and U.S. troops and on Israelis, he said: "If violence is pro-life I don't condemn it."
Britain has around 1,100 troops in Afghanistan and 8,500 in Iraq. Prime Minister Tony Blair supported the United States in its respective invasions of both countries in 2001 and 2003.
Bakri, a 46-year-old father of six, was born in Syria and lived in Lebanon and Saudi Arabia. When the Saudi government expelled him in 1985 he came to London.
Nicknamed "The Tottenham Ayatollah" after the area of north London in which he lives, he has infuriated many Britons with his firebrand speeches and refusal to condemn suicide bombings.
He founded the British branch of Hizb ut-Tahrir, which describes itself as a non-violent political party dedicated to creating an Islamic caliphate centered on the Middle East.
But he split from the group in 1996 and set up al Muhajiroun, which won notoriety in 2001 for celebrating the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon which killed nearly 3,000 people.
Bakri has Syrian and Lebanese citizenship and says he thinks the British government might deport him to one of those two countries in the wake of this month's bombings.
"But I think that would be political suicide for the British government if they started to deport and imprison all extremists and radicals," he said.
Don't inprison them. You want tools like this in with the general population creating more walking time bombs?
"Because if, God forbid, something happened again, they would have nobody left to blame."
Here is another. I'll take out the bullets:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...urce=PA%20Feed
Senior Muslims have warned the Government that it needed to revise British foreign policy if it wants to put an end to the violence.
Dr Azzam Tamimi, from the Muslim Association of Britain, said the country was in real danger and that this would continue so long as British forces remained in Iraq.
More blackmail
"Tony Blair has to come out of his state of denial and listen to what the experts have been saying, that our involvement in Iraq is stupid." His comments were echoed by the marketing manager for The Muslim Weekly newspaper.
Even the newspaper head feels this. Is it me or why is NOONE saying this is wrong and it must stop? Why is noone saying "This is not the way to handle the anger?" Because they agree with it.
"We have got to get out of Iraq, it is the crux of the matter. I believe if Tony Blair and George Bush left Iraq and stopped propping up dictatorial regimes in the Muslim world, the threat rate to Britain would come down to nearly zero."
Until they want something else.
Massoud Shadjareh, chair of the Islamic Human Rights Commission, also called on the Government to take responsibility for creating the "political environment" in which these attacks have happened.
He said: "Now we know this wasn't a one-off, we need to look at ways of addressing the underlying factors that created it. I feel it's urgent to start addressing these before there is further loss of life."
No saying to stop it. Just that the British gov't must change poilcy to get it done.
Spare me the B.S. moderate Muslim crap. The Muslim Association of Britain is supposed to be moderate.
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