Obama makes me miss Dubya

[TheManFromAcme]

Clinton said Al Qaeda was the biggest problem that he passed on to Bush, not Saddam. I guess you still think they are all the same.

And if these WMDs exist, where are they?

Sometimes you have to kill a bunch of Americans whether it's actually warranted or not, eh?

I disagree.

Spying, espionage for that matter, is not an exact science. Never has been. You can task all the satellites you want and send all the "For eyes only" memos to the NSA but the fact of the matter is is that they did exist. One running theory (and I know it's only a theory) is that they were secretly shipped in a clandestine manner, into Syria which at last review, was a country that was not and still not friendly to us. CNN has been around for a while and as much as I despise that liberal network they showed plenty of footage with Saddam and his croonies parading their butts in downtown Baghdad a'la Red Square with all their toys mere months before any of the Gulf wars. Now you tell me, was that made up?

Dead American soilders? Not a new concept. All I can tell you is that freedom and our way of life has always had a price not far from the cries of the widows and mothers who lost loved ones in all previous wars and conflicts popular or not. These kids who signed up for service did exactly that,....sign up for service and not just play weekend warrior.

Bubba Clinton had his shot at Osama. Had him in his sights but refused to pull the trigger because of collateral damage. Lurking in the horizon was an event that forever changed the landscape of this country......9/11.

Death of American soilders is nothing new here man.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yet we know they had em. I admit, the snafu was not finding them.
But my contention to this has and always will be, "Su ion is good enough"

Not in and of itself. Now considering that Iraq's compliance with the terms of the cease fire from Desert Storm I was an issue, yes, there was doubt as to the status of Iraq's WMD programs. Bush's greatest error was selling a worst case scenario as reality instead of framing it as 'we don't know because Iraq hasn't complied and this is something we can't risk...' Or, honesty is the best policy.

especially when it comes down to our national security. I've never understood how any red-blooded American wouldn't want to shoot first and ask questions later.

Well, sure, many did. You would expect a president to let cooler heads prevail, to be hesitant before committing to sending soldiers into battle and however many billions to fund the war at a time of economic weakness for the country. Going to Baghdad was something Bush41 was hesitant to do, in part because of the potential casualties versus the benefit of doing so.

History has taught us time after time what happens when we become isolationists and wimps. Sometimes you just have to take that chance.

That's my opinion.

The thing we need to do in this country is stop measuring our national manhood by the prowess of the Pentagon. And "isolationism" is not the an hesis of invading every country that looks at the US funny. Further, it's easy to talk about being "wimps" when it's not your ass or a loved one's ass on the line.

[rjv]

kind of like saying syphillis makes me miss genital warts

[ChumpDumper]

Spying, espionage for that matter, is not an exact science. Never has been. You can task all the satellites you want and send all the "For eyes only" memos to the NSA but the fact of the matter is is that they did exist.

No they existed. What evidence do you have that they still exist? We had Saddam himself in custody for three years. What information about WMDs did we get from him?

One running theory (and I know it's only a theory) is that they were secretly shipped in a clandestine manner, into Syria which at last review, was a country that was not and still not friendly to us.

Another running theory is that Saddam destroyed them all -- which do you think is more likely?

CNN has been around for a while and as much as I despise that liberal network they showed plenty of footage with Saddam and his croonies parading their butts in downtown Baghdad a'la Red Square with all their toys mere months before any of the Gulf wars. Now you tell me, was that made up?

Which of those toys were WMDs? Point them out to me.

Dead American soilders? Not a new concept. All I can tell you is that freedom and our way of life has always had a price not far from the cries of the widows and mothers who lost loved ones in all previous wars and conflicts popular or not. These kids who signed up for service did exactly that,....sign up for service and not just play weekend warrior.

Those kids sign up to put their lives on the line. It's important to me that those lives are not wasted on a snipe hunt. You obviously don't care that much for their lives; that's your deal.

Bubba Clinton had his shot at Osama. Had him in his sights but refused to pull the trigger because of collateral damage. Lurking in the horizon was an event that forever changed the landscape of this country......9/11.

That has and never had anything to do with Saddam.

Tell me what Bush did about bin Laden before 9/11. Be specific.

Death of American soilders is nothing new here man.

Death of American soldiers on a hunch is stupid and shameful. I agree it's nothing new, but unlike you I would prefer to avoid such a waste of American lives.

[Marcus Bryant]

Further, is "isolationism," apparently defined as not maintaining an imperial military across the globe and engaging in the ocassional invasion of a Third World country such a bad thing? It's not as if the country nor each of us as individuals are any less without that.

And yes, there are plenty of assholes in control of nation-states around the world. There's always plenty of worthy targets. Maybe it's not the mandate of this country to take them all out. As for national security, in raw terms, it's not necessarily enhanced by acting like the great American Satan aggressor. And 'spreading democracy' could very well lead to even more radical ME states.

[TheManFromAcme]

Hunches are safe. Sorry you don't buy into that.
Thankfully, neither you nor I hold positions with the chiefs of staff especially you in a Liberal administration. Thank God almighty for that. We already have enough softies there as it is.

Running a countries defenses is not all about asking 20 questions and "making sure" you've done your homework. It don't work that way. Well, probably with softie Democrats maybe.

These kids are not the first nor will they be the last to get sniped out. It happened in WWI, WW11, Korea, Vietnam and any other engagement we have been tangled up in.
Your thinking is leaning on self-convincing mode that this nonsense should stop. It's not.
Your barbaric to think I relish the thought of our boys dying like that. Nothing can be farther from the truth. Your making this into somehting that isn't there.

I like us carrying a big stick. Always have. Always will no matter what the cost. Incidentally, please don't question my serivce to this country. I type what I do because I have earned the right as much as you do.

This is a forum for dialogue and to, at last check, have fun. I am not taking shots at you, personal or impersonal. I read as much as you do and am privy to as much info as you are. You don't hold a post at NSA, The pentagon, CIA, OSI, or any other agency nor are you a political science prof as I am not either. These are both of our opinions.

Thats all.

[clambake]

"deliberately misleading"

[Marcus Bryant]

WWI is a prime example in trusting an administration when it decides to drag this nation into war to 'spread democracy' and prevent future bad things from happening. Or, shooting first and asking questions later. We generally accept WWI as a good thing, as that is part of the national narrative that all wars engaged in were good, save for perhaps Vietnam. Nam is close enough in time that we remember the dissent, plus it was kinda hard to claim victory when you finished your involvement running away. Wilson was as much of an asshole as Bush, if not moreso and odd as a progressive hero considering he was easily the most overt racist individual to occupy the White House in the 20th Cen.

[ChumpDumper]

Hunches are safe. Sorry you don't buy into that.
Thankfully, neither you nor I hold positions with the chiefs of staff especially you in a Liberal administration. Thank God almighty for that. We already have enough softies there as it is.

Running a countries defenses is not all about asking 20 questions and "making sure" you've done your homework. It don't work that way. Well, probably with softie Democrats maybe.

These kids are not the first nor will they be the last to get sniped out. It happened in WWI, WW11, Korea, Vietnam and any other engagement we have been tangled up in.
Your thinking is leaning on self-convincing mode that this nonsense should stop. It's not.
Your barbaric to think I relish the thought of our boys dying like that. Nothing can be farther from the truth. Your making this into somehting that isn't there.

I like us carrying a big stick. Always have. Always will no matter what the cost. Incidentally, please don't question my serivce to this country. I type what I do because I have earned the right as much as you do.

This is a forum for dialogue and to, at last check, have fun. I am not taking shots at you, personal or impersonal. I read as much as you do and am privy to as much info as you are. You don't hold a post at NSA, The pentagon, CIA, OSI, or any other agency nor are you a political science prof as I am not either. These are both of our opinions.

Thats all.

So you like killing the youth of America indiscriminately because it makes you feel like you have a big stick.

Understood.

[TheManFromAcme]

So you like killing the youth of America indiscriminately because it makes you feel like you have a big stick.

Understood.

I am comfortable knowing you know that's not what I mean and are reading into it much more than is required.

I, just as well, understand.

[ChumpDumper]

I am comfortable knowing you know that's not what I mean and are reading into it much more than is required.

No, that is precisely what you mean. There is nothing more to read into it. There is no depth to your argument and no thought put into it.

Young Americans die and you feel good about that.

[spursncowboys]

I am comfortable knowing you know that's not what I mean and are reading into it much more than is required.

I, just as well, understand.

If he does understand, he plays a good job of moron.

[ChumpDumper]

If he does understand, he plays a good job of moron.

Where are the WMDs? You never answered the question.

[TheManFromAcme]

If he does understand, he plays a good job of moron.

Me or Chump?

[TheManFromAcme]

Where are the WMDs? You never answered the question.

They are in Disneyland.

[Marcus Bryant]

And it's probably not a good thing to establish as precedent that the federal government should act first and ask questions later. Or, it's easily applied to domestic policy. Another reason why conservatives should drop this knee-jerk embrace of the military. It tends to enlarge the state and justify rushed state action.

[DarrinS]

It only took six posts for someone to bring up Iraq. Good thing Obama has ended both of those wars and reversed all the unpopular policies of the Bush administration.



Hopenchange

[ChumpDumper]

It only took six posts for someone to bring up Iraq. Good thing Obama has ended both of those wars and reversed all the unpopular policies of the Bush administration.



Hopenchange

We're trying to figure out what Bush "got done."

Iraq certainly isn't one of those things.

[Marcus Bryant]

Of course, it should come as no surprise that Wilson embraced war as a means for the state to gain control of the national economy, towards the end of enacting whatever great progressive schemes he had in mind. Nowadays "conservatives" embrace the warfare state.

Shoot first, ask questions later.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, why would Obama make anyone miss Bush? If you liked Bush for the "War on Terror", then Obama's giving you more of the same, without all of the general hysteria and discord. Best move I've seen the establishment of this country make in quite some time.

[DarrinS]

Of course, it should come as no surprise that Wilson embraced war as a means for the state to gain control of the national economy, towards the end of enacting whatever great progressive schemes he had in mind. Nowadays "conservatives" embrace the warfare state.

Shoot first, ask questions later.

Except for ending slavery, Fascism, Nazism and Communism, war never solved anything.

[ChumpDumper]

Which war ended communism? Our invasion of the Soviet Union after Red Dawn?

[Nbadan]

We're trying to figure out what Bush "got done."

Iraq certainly isn't one of those things.

On the contrary, Dubya got us into cluster- in Iraq and consequently, Afghanistan, that is impossible to just ignore...


...but that's what wing-nuts expect us to do...

[balli]

Except for ending slavery, Fascism, Nazism and Communism, war never solved anything.

Yes, because WWII and The Cold War were all about Wilsonian exportation of democracy. Not self-preservation or anything like that. Not at all.

[Marcus Bryant]

Except for ending slavery, Fascism, Nazism and Communism, war never solved anything.

What was solved by WWI? Not to mention, what exactly has the Iraq invasion solved?