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So you think being gay is a choice?
I think "evolution" is kind of being mis-applied here and misconstrued with respect to sexuality. For me, I look at evolution as more of actual traits evolving or even changing in a species. Things like losing a tail, birds becoming flightless, opposable thumbs and walking upright. I don't really view mere reproduction and the mixing of DNA necessarily as "evolution" per se, at least not how we study evolution. Reproduction is part of it, but at the core that's not really what evolution is about.
When it comes to passing along genes or not passing along genes, reproduction doesn't necessarily consist of evolutionary change. And to me, sexuality doesn't preclude evolution from taking place. A straight person might simply not have children for whatever reason, like being a Catholic priest or nun, or being impotent/sterile, or a married couple simply choosing not to have children. You wouldn't argue those people are hindering evolution. None of those examples hinders evolution from taking place. Genes can be passed on if a person (who doesn't have children) has siblings, or a guy donates sperm. And once again, gay couples can have kids and can use their own sperm and eggs. Heck, say a lesbian couple chooses to have a child and they ask one of their brothers to donate sperm for in vitro fertilization of the other. That's getting both sets of genes by a lesbian couple. So what sexuality did, before science allowed gay and lesbian couples to have their own children, was kept certain individuals from passing along their own individual genes. But, that's not hindering evolution, not unless their was certain physical trait only gays possessed that would lead to an evolutionary change in the entire species. Is that the case? Not that I know of.
Evolution to me is more about actual changes to the species, adaptability to environmental conditions, and making a real, tangible "evolutionary" change to the species. sexuality doesn't preclude or hinder that from happening. And, being gay is not a genetic trait anyway. If that were the case, then before science could help gay couples to have children, then gay couples would have become extinct. sexuality neither precludes nor hinders evolution.
So you think being gay is a choice?
Genetic and biological aren't necessarily the same thing.
For example, being right-handed or left-handed is not a genetic trait passed on from parent to child, but it is a biological trait that is not determined by choice. From everything I have read about being gay, science seems to show that being gay is more biological than environmental. However, it doesn't seem to be a genetic trait passed on from parent to child.
Genetic is not necessarily biological. And, personally, I don't think being gay is a choice. Why would a person "choose" a life of ridicule and alienation?
The same reason people choose to argue for the sake of arguing, and stick out their own neck to defend against something that's often ridiculed? Maybe they're attention starved, maybe it's some sort of personality disorder or deep psychological things at work, who really knows, just some guesses. I've seen too many 's who were absolutely FLAMING. Obvious that they wanted everyone to know they were gay. Last I checked, being gay didn't make you automatically talk with a lisp. I've ever known of people to come out of the closet who acted just like any other guy and you never would have guessed it. Why do the others act so flamboyant and unnatural, like they're going out of their way to act a certain way? I think being gay is a choice at least for some.
I wouldn't doubt that some gay men and lesbians "choose" to be so. In general, there are exceptions to every rule. However, I believe for the vast majority of gay men and lesbians, it's not a choice but something they were predisposed to before birth, something biological. And, that's why I think it's more appropriate to use the term "sexual orientation" as opposed to "sexual preference." That's my personal opinion.
Now the other things you're asking about is more about personality, not about actually being gay. Why are some people (straight or gay) obnoxious and others humble? Why are some people assholes and others kind? Why are some people tempermental and others calm? Why are some people shy and others outgoing? That's what you're asking now. And, there really is no clear answer. Sure, a gay person can "choose" to be flamboyant. That doesn't mean that person "chose" to be gay.
What you are touching on now is not really directly pertinent to the issue of whether being gay is biological or a choice.
Here is a list with references at the bottom to the studies (a lot of them are in a book) that detail sexuality in each species:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...exual_behavior
What you are saying is logically contradictory. If sexuality is "selected against" it would have disappeared from the gene pool - instead, it is found in many species from all families. Thus, it is not an evolutionarily negative trait. The individual sexual's genes may not be passed on because they don't procreate, yet the trait persists in the population. So, sexuality is probably polygenic, and at least some of the genes involved are evolutionarily neutral. That must be so for sexuality to persist in a population over time.
Last edited by RuffnReadyOzStyle; 02-11-2010 at 04:09 AM.
A perfect example of this is my older brother.
He is gay.
I guarantee if anyone of you met him, you would not be able to tell. He is my go to guy in Austin when I want a hook up, and man, does he deliver with the women!
All of my friends have met him and they where completely suprised at how "straight" he acted. In fact, he actually hates the "flamers".... His own word for the "flamboyant".
If anyone is THAT insecure about sexuality to be around a gay person that they feel threatened, perhaps they have something deeper in their psychie that they should look at.
I'll admit, I was upset with my brother 10 years ago when he came out, but its been a blessing in disguise. Women hit on him all the time and he just points them at me.
OP: take a word of advice..... If your friend really is gay, he can hook you up with more than you can handle. As long as he isnt hitting on you, what the is the problem? He is still the same guy around you, right?
Your situation is different than mine though, you have a friend, I have a brother. My brother isnt going to hit on me. If your friend comes out to you, just lay down the ground rules. He will be your ultimate wingman, trust me.
I don't think you understand Darwinian evolution - it has nothing to do with organisms "finding a way to adapt" because your genes are set from birth - what you are born with is what you will pass on. Instead, it has to do with particular individuals who win the genetic lottery which predisposes them to surviving and reproducing in their niche more successfully than others.
A simple summary of Darwinian evolution (note: it operates on a POPULATION level):
1. the individuals that make up a population are not identical (due to mutation and sexual reproduction) (e.g. Darwin’s finches);
2. some of this variation is heritable (through DNA);
3. variation leads to different rates of survival and reproduction for individuals in the population,depending on how well they are suited to their environment;
4. individuals leave different numbers of descendants that survive to reproductive age;
5. each successive generation of a population is comprised of individuals who are more likely to survive and reproduce given the particular conditions of the physical environment at the time.
I think you are thinking of genetics only in single-gene, dominant-recessive terms. It is far more complex than that. For example, sexuality, as with many genetically influenced personality traits (most personality traits are a mix of genes and environment, except sense of humour which is entirely learned), is probably a combination of many genes, some of which are recessive and can exist and be passed on in a person's DNA without being expressed (only when two copies of a recessive gene appear is the trait expressed). That explains how sexuality can be passed on an persist in the genome.
dolphins are pretty gay and theyre still around
right society has changed, women don't.
carry on, genius.
I'm betting he does.
i think you misunderstood my post. what i was getting at was that an organisms enironment suddenly becomes hostile then that organisms survival will depend on its ability to adapt as quickly as possible to the environment. if an algae, for instance, suddenly has to survive in a certain niche then it has to search to see if there is any trait it currently possesses to get by while future generations would then continue to evolve towards a species fully capable of surviving in that new environment.
and my point was as to the evolution of a species (not an individual) and whether the survival of that species was completely dependent on reproduction.
we are seeing how so many species are going extinct because they lack the capabilty to find traits that enable them to survive in their rapidly changing environs. it is not because they lack the ability to reproduce but rather because they lack the ability to adapt immediately to the challenges the new environment poses.
dan marino is gay ? i mean, i can buy ricky williams being gay but not dan the man.
I can buy that, but I don't know if that has been proven or not scientifically when it comes to sexuality. I do recall vaguely that there have been scientific studies that showed there is something different in one part of the brain for gay men. I think it's something like a biological anomaly that just sometimes occurs. Now, I'm no scientist or an expert on the brain or sexuality, so perhaps that anomaly is a result of certain mixtures of genes. I simply don't know. I just figured it was one of those things biological traits that isn't necessarily part of a genetic ladder. But, I wouldn't be surprised if how describe it is how it actually is.
a got couple came into work today..
If you don't like gays, you're a closeted gay person yourself who is insecure, just ask CuckingFunt.
did they ask you to supersize the fries?a got couple came into work today..
did they ask you to supersize the fries?
Your cleverness and originality were really on display on that one, oh boy!did they ask you to supersize the fries?
Blake said don't forget to suck the balls while you're down there..
You have yet to display any cleverness or originality, oh boy!Blake said don't forget to suck the balls while you're down there..
This isn't really a clever or original, but it's ing hilarious.
that's what i've always thought about you, i mean i just never really saw the point in your spurstalk existance other than being an annoyance. oh well, we can't all get what we want, IE there are still gots running around in the world, and blake is still posting on spurstalk. I'm sure there's something you also want in life but are unable to have, maybe a bigger penis?
let me get this straight, mavsfan, 21 from Dallas, loves eminem and hates " s"
amazing
i don't love eminem. obviously you just like to grasp at straws and clutch that very hard with a death grip. i voted for eminem in your little poll to spite the mookie crew. i don't dislike eminem, but i don't jack off to him either. while we're establishing things, spur fan, overweight and late 20's, from victora, is still upset with me. gotcha
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