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It isn't a rumor, it's a guy speculating on trades..he's in High School..
It's the equivalent of taking any trade talk from Spurs Talk minus the logic..
This is just some made up .
It isn't a rumor, it's a guy speculating on trades..he's in High School..
It's the equivalent of taking any trade talk from Spurs Talk minus the logic..
God Please No! I'd much rather get Brent Barry Back
Popovich loves his small ball lineups, that is one thing we can all agree on right? This is exactly why Thomas is the perfect acquisition.
For those of you that think Popovich would stubbornly refuse to Tyrus Thomas instead of his small ball lineups w/ Jefferson @ PF .. I ask.. why the wouldn't he?
Thomas is a tweener 6'8 (just the type that Pop likes to use at that PF) BUT
who can play much bigger around the rim because of his athleticism and wingspan. I think he would use Thomas alot in this aspect. Thomas' defense presence around the rim would be a HUGE upgrade over Jefferson and even Pop should be able to figure this out (might take a couple weeks but he would).
That's also why Camby is not the answer regardless of Pop's small ball love or not. Camby is getting up there in age and career minutes. His athleticism is on the decline and he is not what the spurs need even if Pop hated small ball. But given Pop's penchant he is 100% unequivocably NOT the answer. If Mahinmi and Ratliff cannot impress Pop enough to garner minutes, "cotton camby" won't either.
I am just finishing up watching the blazers' game from last week and all I can say is this game was easily winnable and should have been won but for Pop using small ball again in the 4th quarter. When Duncan rests, and Pop uses his standby small ball w/ Blair and Jefferson as the frontcourt this team just gets pounded by penetration and points in the paint. It's clear Pop is not going to change this strategy, so why not get the piece (Thomas) that can make it actually start working?
If I was the spurs' F.O. I would be going after Thomas balls to the wall, and not even losing Splitter would deter me from getting this deal done.
The Spurs need to consider a trade that would bring in a player(s) who is what a friend refers to as "a nice thug." It sounds silly, but I think the point is well taken. The RJ trade was (at the time) viewed as a talent upgrade, but it also sent off the 3 players which the Spurs relied on to be the enforcers. Put another way, they were the guys that got under the oppositions' skin. For once, I would agree with Pop that we have a "soft" team.
Fab, Bruce, and Kurt (and the retired Horry) all had an element of "nastiness" to them which gave the Spurs character -- especially on the defensive end. If you go back even further, the Spurs were very dynamic when they had Jax, Jaren Jackson, and Mario Ellie for the same reason. While I don't like the baggage of TT, I think he may bring in that missing element.
How about this trade:
Richard Jefferson and Mahinmi to the Kings for Nocioni and Kenny Thomas? RJ and Nocioni have bad contracts ... but the Kings may like RJ's shorter contract. The Kings are one of the few teams that could potentially really gain by taking a look at Mahinmi. They're playing some scrubs at center (see: Armstrong, Hilton) so he should get time.
The Spurs need a tough guy and emotional leader. Nocioni fits that perfectly. I think Nocioni kinda sucks but at least he'd be a much, much better fit.
What is with the Nocioni obsession among Spurs fans? He's got an awful contract, his play is steadily declining and he was never that good to begin with. He's devoid of athleticism and his 3-point shooting is getting worse by the year.
This trade accomplishes/solves absolutely nothing and only lessens the Spurs overall talent level. Forget it.
Pop would just use Nocioni as the new small-ball PF. And he'd be worse than Jefferson in that role, and that's saying something.
Wow, very nice point there. The "enforcers" they certainly were. I think you're on to something here.
Remember the days RJ was on the nets, he had that "enforcer" mentality too. We saw flashes of that earlier in the year as well, in a few games at least. Then something happened.....
C'mon Bruno
Thomas was a 4th pick in the draft. Even he lives up to half that potential the spurs will come out way ahead with him over a 19th or 20th pick in what is shaping up to be a craptastic draft.
I thought the spurs cant trade the 1st pick 2 years in a row?
sorry missed this one.
yes, sure.
the problem? I think all GSW scenarios woulöd have been more promising 2 months ago. the situation there seems to have cooled down a bit. (at least fans are no longer booing Maggette). so, even if they are still in salary dump mode, they very likely no longer will bite on RJ. and I don't think they are that desperate to sacifice Randolph just to get Maggette out.
however, of the mentioned players I would take each one and be happy but first off I would be happy to ship RJ.
personally I think this trade is to complicated, especially because it would work streight in two seperated trades either. Spurs get to much talent back, even if the 2 other teams get what they wanted, they might ask themself if they want to be utilized as the Spurs rebuilding tools.
It looks like you have fully given up on RJ.
I'm nowhere near that level and the idea to trade him for a 9/3 player shooting 40% and without a better contract makes me puke.
This thread has gotten a little kooky w/ the pipe dream trade proposals. The Gasol for Kwame Brown type trades are reserved for Stern's flagship teams only.
It would be two separate trades, it was just put in a three-team format for the purposes of the trade machine.
GS would get RJ and Splitter for Maggette and Randolph
Chi. would get a combination of expirings and a first-rounder for Salmons and Thomas.
Tyrus is definitely starting to draw a decent amount of interest, so the asking price could seemingly escalate, but I think the Spurs could pull it off with the willingness to take Salmons.
GS I'm much more unsure of, it's just the trade I'm most hopeful for. It makes sense for them to take RJ in exchange for Maggette and acquire Splitter to be a cheaper alternative to Biedrins, whom they could move and fill another hole or pocket the savings, but I have no idea how realistic getting them to part with Randolph is; it's hard to imagine trading a talent like that when he's out for the rest of the year and his value isn't where it should be...
I'd rather keep Jefferson than have Nocioni. At least if, and it's like a 0.2% chance, Jefferson gets it together, he is a far superior player to Nocioni.
RJ for Nocioni . . .
holy crap!
Nocioni fits this current floundering team like a pair of cement shoes. Better to just buy RJ out and ride Malik Hairston to the promised land, or the lottery, either way.
That Nocioni trade would be horrible..
You guys don't think Jefferson's contract is going to be valuable in the Summer and beyond?..I'd rather just keep him and wait until the Summer and see what teams are offering for his huge expiring contract..TBH, I would be surprised if we can't get a solid return for him, there are going to be plenty of teams looking to dump salary with the impending CBA situation..
I like the idea of Nocioni if the Spurs are going to try to hold this team together a few more years. In a scenario where Manu gets a two-year extension, it makes sense. Trading for Nocioni doesn't make sense if the Spurs are going to go into some sort of rebuilding mode.
Why I like Nocioni:
-Spurs fans say they want toughness and an emotional leader? That's what Nocioni can bring.
-The Spurs are soft as Charmin right now. Losing Bowen has had a huge negative effect on the softness of this team. When an opposing team drives into the lane, they know that no one is going to do anything. With Nocioni on the court, at least there's a dirty player who will undercut you just for fun. Nocioni would automatically make this team not soft. Outside of Posey, he might be the dirtiest player in the league ... which the Spurs need right now.
-He's a legit small ball four. Pop isn't giving up on small ball anytime soon. Might as well acquire a player who can actually do what Pop wants when he goes small. Jefferson is an absolute disaster as a small ball four. Outside of Parker, there's no player on the roster who I'd like seeing less at PF.
-Nocioni's offense fits the Spurs' system. He's now just basically a spot up shooter. For the Spurs, that's fine. RJ's supposed ability to drive the ball to the hoop doesn't help this team the way it is made up.
-I don't think Nocioni would take a long time to learn the system. Manu already would have good chemistry with him and Nocioni being on the Argentine NT with their relatively similar sets is a good primer for Spurs Basketball.
-His contract is horrible but if he's acquired in an exchange for RJ, the savings next year would make it easier to afford Manu.
-And, yes, I've given up on RJ. His confidence is gone ... and it's getting worse. Good idea in theory. Bad fit in real life.
-While Nocioni's stats are worse than RJ's ... they are better on a per-minute basis. Nocioni can actually rebound. His FG and 3P percentages should rise with more open shots.
So, yeah, if the Spurs are going to keep this group together, I'd rather go down fighting with Nocioni than to continue this soft basketball with RJ. There's a chance Nocioni could spark this team and add some elements lost when Bowen retired. RJ? It'd be a slow death.
That said, all the above is moot if the Spurs are going to rebuild. Honestly, a rebuilding plan probably makes more sense ... though it'd be tough for fans to stomach.
Ya know, I can't say I'd be against it...
Flipping RJ into Nocioni takes $8.2M off the books next year. That's a lot of got damn money in Holt dollars. Unless we think Holt is going to just keep spending and keep spending, that amount of money could be the difference in keeping Manu or bringing over Splitter.
Nocioni + $8.2M next year >>>>>>>>>>>>>> RJ
I would hope that Holt can pay the tax for one last year next season..I know that it's very possible that he doesn't now that the Spurs have disappointed though..
If Jefferson's contract is flipped for an overpaid all-star caliber player or a few good pieces, we could be good again with a few other moves..
The amount of $ will depend on what we expect Splitter and Manu to get, assuming they both want to be Spurs next year..what kind of contract offers do you guys think these 2 would get from the Spurs?..
While I don't initially like a Nocioni trade, I don't think I've ever bought into the 'RJ's expiring will be valuable' theories. There's been plenty of expirings who just dangle and never get moved, like Raef Lafrentz. Golden State just outright bought out a $6 mil expiring in Claxton well before the trade deadline just to keep a d-leaguer on the roster. Who knows how the next CBA will affect trading next year by the deadline, especially with large deals like RJs.
timvp, you have reasoned, fairly objective points.
But I have to disagree.
Mostly on the small ball four. Because Pop won't give up on it, I am completely confident that the window is now shut. I haven't watched Nocioni that much outside of Spurs games, but he's looked finished to me, and though he is dirty and scrappy, he just looked done in the games I watched. And while he'll put up more of a fight than RJ, he'll do as much damage as Finley at this point in his career as a smallball 4.
It's a losing formula.
I like that he would be good for Manu, and could free up cash to make sure Manu retires a Spur. But I have to think that if the Spurs really cared about getting another countryman for Manu to hang with they would have kept Scola, modest though his contract demands were.
So, to sum up my quick thoughts : trading for Nocioni to help the goal of winning a le : no
trading to let Manu retire with Tim : maybe
Chapu's contract isn't nearly as terrible as I thought it was; he's making less than half of what RJ makes next year and he's only guaranteed $6.65M the following. (TO his final year)
I'm with you on the intangibles, timvp, and I do think this is the type of move that could potentially ignite Manu. So I don't completely dismiss it
But in all honesty, I'm not sure how far his game has fallen off or what he has left. I just haven't paid that much attention to him this year. So I won't completely dismiss it and say it's a terrible idea, but I am skeptical.
I'd much rather see a Thomas-Salmons acquisition or the pipe dream that is Randolph-Maggette, but I'd be open to this if it's what's left to be had (RJ and his cancer has gots to go). . .
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