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are you saying that once you worked for the obama campaign, you felt that the cons ution was useless?
Apparently things suck but they don't suck enough for you to really care. All I see here all I see pretty much everywhere else: Apathy. Things are so horrible that we're going to about it but not actually do what it takes to change it.
are you saying that once you worked for the obama campaign, you felt that the cons ution was useless?
the biggest liar ever.
Bigger liars lie about making war and stuff...
I would probably agree with this statement for myself.
My reaction to the situation, however, is to become more involved than I ever have been in the past.
Not involved in a "show up at meetings and argue for policy points way"...both major parties are too narrow minded for me to be able to do that. Plus, I just don't want to argue with people about their position on things enough to actually do it. But I have begun sending money to candidates in selected races based on the participants in the race. Not based on what party they are from. I think that more Americans do that sort of thing than actively get in party organization.
I have actively considered moving to another country. If I could get my family to go along with it, I think I would.
And yet, I love my country.
I vote on a candidate by candidate basis. I am registered as an independent and always have been. Not that it's any of your beeswax, but I got nothing to hide.
Last edited by Winehole23; 02-13-2010 at 02:45 PM.
You don't know what it takes to change it any better than me. And it's pretty arrogant to for you to assume the answer to my problems is to be found working for political parties rather than tending my own cabbage patch.
Last edited by Winehole23; 02-13-2010 at 02:47 PM.
Amen to that. Despite our serious, serious problems, I'd rather live and die here in the USA than anywhere else.
Same here. Both major parties today are excessively nationalistic and assume the subordination of the individual to what each holds as the path to national greatness. The end of American governance as individual liberty is a dead letter.
I do wonder what I'm supposed to do that I haven't done to change the system. Does it not start with questioning the status quo and voting against it?
Apparently, if you're not a flunkie to some existing political party with real political clout, you don't really care. Or so I've heard.
No - simply ing about it on an internet forum is the appropriate manner to change things. I asked the political party as an indicator but I did not once say it was the end all be all.
But I'll ask you this: who effects more of their will upon the system? Those who use it actively or those who bemoan what it has become and do nothing?
I'm not trying to get you to do anything you don't want to do, my point was simply that you (and everyone else) don't want to do it.
As for knowing the best way to change things, I'm not sure that I do nor did I ever claim as much. I do however, know that our posts on this forum don't do to change anything and that when those special interest groups hit the ground and do their thing they do a of a lot to impact the system.
It matters whether that will affects us for good or for ill. There's no inherent virtue in having and exercising political power. Principles inevitably are sacrificed to get the deal done and people, inevitably ed over.But I'll ask you this: who effects more of their will upon the system? Those who use it actively or those who bemoan what it has become and do nothing?
But politics isn't the only deal, nor is political power the only relevant power in life. Society, philosophy, religion, culture, discipline, sport, hobby, pastime, whatever. In the everyday sense there are a lot of important things that don't seem very political at all. There's no accounting for the effect we have or might have on others in our non-political capacities -- you yourself made reference a minute ago to how important it is, how limiting, momentous and objectively defining it is for politics that people don't really care.
So please don't stand there and tell me the only sort of contribution or change that counts is straightforward political activism. Bull . Not only is that not substantially true, it's probably objectively false. It takes more than politicians and political activism --way more -- to make a world.
Every in day, dude.
Last edited by Winehole23; 02-14-2010 at 07:44 AM.
I like to talk politics, but it's not a be all and end all, though it is very ing important. At the granular level of life, there's way more personal choice than than there is political control. And therefore (in a rather diffuse sense, admittedly) more real power.
Society conditions politics but the levers are not always political. Mores, customs, traditions, voluntary associations, family, habit, supers ion, opinion, knowledge and *spiritual conditions* like confidence and zeal for ideals (and personal prosperity, naturally) preponder. You can't change everything by participating in interest groups and your local political precincts.
Not by a long shot.
Last edited by Winehole23; 02-14-2010 at 07:49 AM.
I don't see you doing anything but reinforcing my point. I'm just not sure why it makes you so angry.People in this country just don't care. Sure, the polls say they don't like anyone there but the fact is that what they really mean is they don't CARE about anyone there. You take any measure of attention and the people in DC are superseded on so many levels. If you put new people in DC they're going to moved by special interests once again because special interests are the ones who actually give a and are motivated to use the system that is in place.
I'm not angry. I'm just explaining my POV.
Your opening sentence says it all, WH. You like to talk politics, but its not that important to you otherwise. Sure, you through in the "very ing important" line as an afterthought but actions speak louder than words and I think thats simply lip service from someone who likes to talk politics.
When people actually think something is "very ing important" they act.
Sorry it's not enough for you that I try to be a good husband, a good friend to my friends, a good wine guy, a good teammate, a faithful correspondent, and *whatever I may choose to give back* in my spare time.
If I'm given a spare life, maybe I'll get around to trying to making you a little happier about the way I live it. Fair enough?
Anyway, you seem to have missed my point entirely.
Good night, MIG.
Do with your life as you wish. You don't owe me anything and thats not what I'm trying to say so you can stop with the victimization here as if I'm trying to drag you out to start knocking on doors.
I am simply pointing out that these political matters are lower on your priorities list than many other things. You simply keep reinforcing this.
The vast Americans feel the same way you do. They are apathetic about politics and care far more about things they have going on in their day to day lives and this is why government officials aren't held accountable.
I simply find it amusing to read the posts in here that advocate tossing out everyone in DC as if that somehow will make it an entirely different situation (I realize you did not say this so before you bring that up notice that you responded to my original statement - i did not aim it at you - so I can only surmise that you agreed with that POV)
You're the one who turned it around and made this about you. If anyone could have done that it was MB although me invoking his user name was simply to make the point that someone who had a higher awareness of political matters and a more refined opinion on the issues was in all likely hood still not active in the political process for many of the same reasons held by others and not an attack on him or some kind of call to action.
Actually, this last series of posts between WH and MIG seems to me to reinforce the thread le, i.e., everybody is mad at everybody.
Political activists (perhaps like you, MIG, I don't really know) seem to take the position that if one es about the political status quo, and yet does not belong to a political party, or somehow involve oneself in political activism
that their opinions are somehow less valid or reflect a 'lesser' status of 'caring', than is characteristic of the 'true believers'.
To me, the above (and if this is a straw man at your expense, MIG, I apologize in advance) sentiment reflects a sort of 'purity' test that I have found to be true among the rank and file of lots of organizations, including political ones. That is, if one is not willing or able or inclined to 'knock on doorbells or engage in the party process' that one is somehow of a lesser status, and therefore, ineligible to partake in the critical assessment of it.
Most of us Americans reject that approach. If the 'true believers' were a bit more accomondating and a bit less judgmental of those who do not 'go all the way that they do', more of us might be more inclined to participate. In any event, everyone's opinions are just as valid as anyone else's. At least that is still true in this country.
I used to care about politics, but I was blessed/cursed with understanding the game at too early an age. I now couldn't care less what happens one way or the other.
There really is not point in getting heated over politics, because you have no control.
I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you. Enjoy that operation waiting list homie.
I'm not mad at everyone, just Obama and his administration.
I'm not mad at them. We knew how they were. I'm mad at those who voted for them.
"just Obama and his administration"
... who have actually done very little, and certainly nothing very different from the Repugs who started TARP and are as owned by corporations.
But you aren't mad at Repugs?
Not even for allowing 9/11,
not for the lying US into the bogus Iraq war and
not for the botched Afganistan war?
yeah, I know, all that is "old" history, to be forgotten. We gotta put it down, get past it, let it go, move on, going forward. 4000+ dead, wasted US military, 'em, we gotta move on.
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