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  1. #826
    Ford is the Best in Texas scottspurs's Avatar
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    Who would do this trade?



    And would you do it if you had to give Denver a first round pick on top of McDyess for them to eat his contract?
    I don't think we can trade this year's first round pick, but I would say yes to trading the 2011 pick. If it was alright with Peter Holt though I would much rather go after Randolph and Maggette.

  2. #827
    Veteran ace3g's Avatar
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    Stalled potential puts Bulls' Thomas at another crossroad



    Potential, an NBA head coach once told me, can get you fired.

    As wonderful and enticing as it appears, a bundle of skills, physical prowess and projected development often can lead nowhere. Untapped upside often ends up being simply a big tease. Or in this case, big Ts. As in Tyrus Thomas.

    Thomas' dance card has been filled like no other's as the league trading deadline approaches. It's been almost a push, where listing the teams that aren't open to the idea of adding the Chicago Bulls' potent and problematic forward is simpler than listing those that are.

    Why so many possible suitors? Potential.

    That word packs a punch in Thomas' case. Nearly four years after the Bulls gambled on Thomas' potential, it holds more curse than promise.

    "We have good character guys,'' Bulls coach Vinny Del Negro said the other day. "They understand the business part of it. Like I always said, if their name is in rumors, that means teams want them. And that's a good thing for a player.''

    Good thing for a player? Maybe. As long as there is someone willing to take on his $4.7 million salary now and/or offer up another multimillion-dollar contract this summer, Thomas needn't worry. Some might argue that Thomas' value in the marketplace is a good thing for the Bulls, too. Even if some of the deals being offered are modest, they are a step up from frustration, distraction and headache, the pieces most in play since Thomas arrived in June 2006.

    When the Bulls got Thomas, he and long-gone Viktor Khryapa were worth the Draft rights to LaMarcus Aldridge and a conditional second-round pick. Now, three-plus seasons later, do you think Portland would hit the reset button on that deal? Aldridge is a key part of the Trail Blazers' future, averaging 17.3 points on 49.7 percent shooting, with 8.4 rebounds and two assists (both career highs) in 37.3 minutes a game. He has led Portland in points 14 times, in rebounds 21 times, has scored at least 20 in 21 games and has 18 double-doubles. The 6-foot-11 forward-center has missed seven games since the start of 2007-08, anchoring the frontcourt through the Greg Oden setbacks and other assorted injuries.

    Thomas, in his fourth season, is averaging 8.9 points, 6.3 rebounds and 1.2 blocks in 23.4 minutes. The 6-foot-10 Thomas has led Chicago once in points and once in rebounds, with nine games scoring at least 10 points and one double-double. Thomas missed 11 games over the two previous seasons and 24 more so far in 2009-10 -- one to flu-like symptoms, 22 to a left arm fracture and one earlier this month to a team suspension.

    Which brings up another stat: The Bulls have taken disciplinary action four times in three seasons with Thomas. That's a symptom of something more vexing than the flu, a frustration within both the player and the team.

    Reports of a growing maturity in Thomas' game and demeanor have been, well, premature. Again. After his lackluster performance in Atlanta Feb. 5 -- one shoddy enough to earn him an early benching -- Thomas made a bad night worse with a profanity-laced tirade in Del Negro's office. That earned him the next game off and, most likely, his ticket out of Chicago by Thursday afternoon. No matter how annoyed Thomas was, or misguided the Bulls have been, with his backward progression in playing time (down from 27.5 minutes last season, with only three starts this year), that is the last thing either side needed.

    Two young forwards have something of a stake in Thomas' tale. One is Chicago's Taj Gibson, the rookie forward who has taken advantage, through effort and consistency, of the void in the Bulls' rotation opened by Thomas. The other is Miami's Michael Beasley, whose own spotty play since the 2008 Draft has caused some to reevaluate him -- and made the Bulls happy they picked Derrick Rose No. 1 that night.

    Both guys were at All-Star Weekend for the Rookie Challenge game and both guys, teammate and opponent, still see Thomas' vast upside. When healthy, Thomas still can run and soar almost effortlessly, and with more diligence close to the basket and less dalliance away from it, has all the tools to be an effective scorer, rebounder and defender.

    It's just that his effort is parceled out inconsistently and managed by a temperament that too often gets in the way.

    "I really don't know what's going to happen,'' Gibson said. "I know that Tyrus is a great guy. He's good in the locker room. He's still up-and-coming. He's so talented. It's all about Tyrus, how well Tyrus wants to progress. I know that he still has a lot more potential than he shows.''

    Gibson wasn't about to lecture a more veteran teammate or compare himself in any way, even if his presence has helped the Bulls during Thomas' latest false starts. "The way things worked out for me, I just stepped up, worked hard,'' the rookie said. "Vinny put me in tough places early in the season, tough situations. I was able to overcome, and things just turned out for the best.''

    Beasley noted how young Thomas still is -- after two years at LSU and four in the NBA, he will turn 24 in August -- and how different players develop at different paces. He thinks Thomas could become "another version of Josh Smith,'' mentioning the Atlanta forward who did so much growing up at NBA wages.

    "I don't think there ever is a 'too late.' Unless you're 38 years old or on your last couple of years,'' Beasley said. "But guys have waited six, seven years to become All-Stars. Guys like Chauncey Billups or Gilbert Arenas can attest to that.''

    Neither Billups nor Arenas were the players they eventually became with their original teams. Looks like Thomas won't be either.

    http://www.nba.com/2010/news/feature...l?cid=nba.2013

  3. #828
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    It kinda sucks to think how the Spurs would have to use a first round pick to salary dump McDyess' contract so soon ... but if you factor in making room for Thomas and Salmons financially, it's easier to swallow.

    I don't love the deal but it may be the only way to get Ty Thomas and actually keep him without having to pick between Manu and Splitter this offseason.

  4. #829
    Govt, stay away!
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    It kinda sucks to think how the Spurs would have to use a first round pick to salary dump McDyess' contract so soon ... but if you factor in making room for Thomas and Salmons financially, it's easier to swallow.

    I don't love the deal but it may be the only way to get Ty Thomas and actually keep him without having to pick between Manu and Splitter this offseason.

    I think it sucks to think of dumping McDyess period.

  5. #830
    Out of the shadows lurker23's Avatar
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    I've said this before, but: I won't be particularly happy if the Spurs trade away Dice and the major piece they get back is Tyrus Thomas. After running the financials, I kind of get it, but that still doesn't mean I like it. I also get the whole youth movement thing, but it has to be youth that fits, and I'm not entirely sure Thomas does.

    I dunno, maybe I'm just a little too HOYA or I'm hanging on to the slim hopes of this season a little too tightly. However, I feel that we're just starting to see glimpses of Dice's potential on this team, and it's going to take a lot of patience from Pop for Thomas to have any kind of impact on the team this year, patience that we haven't really seen recently. Maybe I'm underrating Thomas (and Salmons, for that matter), but the whole Dice for Thomas idea just feels like giving up on this season to me.

  6. #831
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    It kinda sucks to think how the Spurs would have to use a first round pick to salary dump McDyess' contract so soon ... but if you factor in making room for Thomas and Salmons financially, it's easier to swallow.

    I don't love the deal but it may be the only way to get Ty Thomas and actually keep him without having to pick between Manu and Splitter this offseason.
    I think they'd only have to include the 1st rounder if the team they were trading him to wasn't in contention for a championship.

    Team not in contention would only take on his relatively fair contract for the purposes of the 1st rounder. (These teams would value future assets in the trade because of taking on his contract.)

    Teams in contention would take on his fair contract for his play. (These teams would value his play NOW in the trade.)

    Two different scenarios where McDyess would be valued in a trade from the opposing perspective.

  7. #832
    Ghost of Mr. K SenorSpur's Avatar
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    It kinda sucks to think how the Spurs would have to use a first round pick to salary dump McDyess' contract so soon ... but if you factor in making room for Thomas and Salmons financially, it's easier to swallow.

    I don't love the deal but it may be the only way to get Ty Thomas and actually keep him without having to pick between Manu and Splitter this offseason.
    Perhaps I missed this, but where did you get the information on the Spurs having to burn a 1st round pick along with the McDyess trade?

    Frankly, I was hoping the Spurs could nab a 1st round pick from the Rich-n-Creamies, as part of the McDyess trade. After all, weren't they the ones that initially approached the Spurs about a possible McDyess deal?

  8. #833
    Believe. DaBears's Avatar
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    Well at this point i would settle for bringing back, Oberto, Kurt thomas, and Bruce the duce Bowen.... I bet while we diffenitly would need EMS and plenty of bengay ointment lying around, with a healthy TD, TP,MG, and the rest of the crew, i am pretty sure we would not be in the same position as the current status.....

  9. #834
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Trading away McDyess just for expirings could happen, however I'd classify the chances as unlikely. Teams just aren't jumping at the chance to eat two full years of salary. We could hope, but it's probably not reality.

    The way to sweeten up the deal would be to include a first round pick. Even then, it's no guarantee that the Spurs can find a buyer.

  10. #835
    I'm poplovin' it! TJastal's Avatar
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    I've said this before, but: I won't be particularly happy if the Spurs trade away Dice and the major piece they get back is Tyrus Thomas. After running the financials, I kind of get it, but that still doesn't mean I like it. I also get the whole youth movement thing, but it has to be youth that fits, and I'm not entirely sure Thomas does.

    I dunno, maybe I'm just a little too HOYA or I'm hanging on to the slim hopes of this season a little too tightly. However, I feel that we're just starting to see glimpses of Dice's potential on this team, and it's going to take a lot of patience from Pop for Thomas to have any kind of impact on the team this year, patience that we haven't really seen recently. Maybe I'm underrating both Thomas (and Salmons, for that matter), but the whole Dice for Thomas idea just feels like giving up on this season to me.
    I love Dice.. he's been my favorite player so far this year and I'd much prefer a Duncan/Thomas/Dice/Blair rotation, but financially this might be the only way to get some younger talent in here.

  11. #836
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    Trading away McDyess just for expirings could happen, however I'd classify the chances as unlikely. Teams just aren't jumping at the chance to eat two full years of salary. We could hope, but it's probably not reality.

    The way to sweeten up the deal would be to include a first round pick. Even then, it's no guarantee that the Spurs can find a buyer.
    I think they'd only have to include the 1st rounder if the team they were trading him to wasn't in contention for a championship.

    Team not in contention would only take on his relatively fair contract for the purposes of the 1st rounder. (These teams would value future assets in the trade because of taking on his contract.)

    Teams in contention would take on his fair contract for his play. (These teams would value his play, improving their team's chances to win the championship.)

    Two different scenarios where McDyess would be valued in a trade from the opposing perspective.

  12. #837
    Out of the shadows lurker23's Avatar
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    I love Dice.. he's been my favorite player so far this year and I'd much prefer a Duncan/Thomas/Dice/Blair rotation, but financially this might be the only way to get some younger talent in here.
    I certainly get that. I guess another part of my worry is that you're only guaranteed to have Thomas through the end of this year. After that, some team could make a big offer on him in restricted free agency due to his potential, and the Spurs might not match. Then what? You have no new youth and you have no McDyess.

  13. #838
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    Salmons would become the best shooting guard on the team if he was brought in.
    I just flat out don't see Holt approving more salary next year. It'll be a very, very tough sell. If I were Holt I would allow RC/Pop to make any move they thought would increase the Spurs' chances of making a deep play-off run THIS year.

    RC/Pop owe it to ownership to try to do their best to recover some of their investment, and throwing good money after bad is not the way to do it IMO. Salmon may be "good," but ownership is seeing the same financials we are.

    Not to mention that adding more salary only serves to further limit what can be offered to Manu, a fan favorite, and frankly someone who puts butts in seats. If we're gonna lose Manu, we better get more back than effectively Salmons and maybe Splitter. At the very least, we need to keep the cap flexibility for ourselves.

  14. #839
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    Spurs have a better chance to win the le this year than next year. Adding a rookie (Splitter) and Blair being more experienced won't offset Duncan and Ginobili being one year older.

    Giving up this year just by dumping McDyess is a damn bad idea.

  15. #840
    Veteran Mel_13's Avatar
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    Trading away McDyess just for expirings could happen, however I'd classify the chances as unlikely. Teams just aren't jumping at the chance to eat two full years of salary. We could hope, but it's probably not reality.

    The way to sweeten up the deal would be to include a first round pick. Even then, it's no guarantee that the Spurs can find a buyer.
    The list of teams that would trade expiring contracts for Dice may be completely empty.

    Any team that might be on that list has to meet two qualifications:

    1. Most obviously, that team must want Dice to play an important role.

    2. Dice must be willing to play for that team.

    Given Dice's comments after signing with Spurs that it was going to be the Spurs or retirement, it's possible that there may no team that Dice will report to. If that's the case, the Spurs will have to spend a first rounder to get his contract off the books.

  16. #841
    Believe. DaBears's Avatar
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    Maybe someone can address if known what is the status of Ian Mahanhi(spelling). He appears to be healthy he is a legit bigman.. Anyone know why pop doesnt throw him a bone.. Give him minutes see what he can do.. I would say if he can get a good stretch run of steady minutes and rotation he might be the Bigman to solve most of our problems.... not all but some.. I mean the guy has shown glimpse's of what he can do, while staying out of foul trouble....

  17. #842
    I'm poplovin' it! TJastal's Avatar
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    I certainly get that. I guess another part of my worry is that you're only guaranteed to have Thomas through the end of this year. After that, some team could make a big offer on him in restricted free agency due to his potential, and the Spurs might not match. Then what? You have no new youth and you have no McDyess.
    But you still have Salmons at least. And Ian can probably be resigned cheaply and possibly Splitter.

  18. #843
    I'm poplovin' it! TJastal's Avatar
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    The list of teams that would trade expiring contracts for Dice may be completely empty.

    Any team that might be on that list has to meet two qualifications:

    1. Most obviously, that team must want Dice to play an important role.

    2. Dice must be willing to play for that team.

    Given Dice's comments after signing with Spurs that it was going to be the Spurs or retirement, it's possible that there may no team that Dice will report to. If that's the case, the Spurs will have to spend a first rounder to get his contract off the books.
    Meh.

    I would be willing to bet that Dice would welcome a return to Denver where it all started for him. And a reunification with Billups.

  19. #844
    Veteran Mel_13's Avatar
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    Meh.

    I would be willing to bet that Dice would welcome a return to Denver where it all started for him. And a reunification with Billups.
    Meh all you like.

    That makes one possible team that may be of interest. It's also the team he refused to move to last year when he was traded there WITH Billups at the start of the season.

  20. #845
    Veteran AFBlue's Avatar
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    Nevermind...I usually like to think out my posts. Apparently this one didn't make sense.

  21. #846
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    Like I mentioned earlier, maybe the most value the Spurs are going to get from moving RMJ is a trade exception.

    Salmons is a non-starter if you favor keeping Manu and bring in Splitter. Hopefully the Knicks win the Tmac sweepstakes thereby forcing the Bulls' hand somewhat.

    Didn't see this posted from Chad Ford yet. (as of Feb. 17 -- 3:09 p.m. ET)


    Chad Ford: The Knicks and Rockets spoke Wednesday morning about a potential Tracy McGrady trade. Sources familiar with the negotiations told ESPN.com that although the Knicks told the Rockets they remain interested in acquiring the shooting guard in a deal for Larry Hughes and Jared Jeffries, they are still unwilling to meet all of the Rockets' demands -- cap relief, Jordan Hill, the swapping of 2011 first-round picks and the Knicks' 2012 first-round pick.

    "We'd like McGrady and the cap relief," one Knicks source said. "But the Rockets are asking for too much. We're willing to pay a premium to make a deal. But the price right now is still too high."

    According to the source, the Rockets are still looking for other partners. The Bulls have been mentioned as a possibility, but sources believe their offer is less attractive than the Knicks' -- even if the Knicks don't give the Rockets everything they're asking for.

  22. #847
    Veteran Mel_13's Avatar
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    I don't understand the insistence on flipping Dice for expiring contracts as a pre-requisite to a Thomas/Salmons deal.

    The Spurs should have more opportunity next year when his deal essentially becomes an expiring one (assume Spurs kick in cash to cover guaranteed portion of following year).
    They can trade Dice next year, but they can't make his salary disappear. Similar sized contracts will come back in a trade. The notion behind trading him for expiring contracts now is to get his salary off the books next year.

    I don't think it will happen.

    Edit: Didn't see your follow-up. Never mind.

  23. #848
    Veteran AFBlue's Avatar
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    They can trade Dice next year, but they can't make his salary disappear. Similar sized contracts will come back in a trade. The notion behind trading him for expiring contracts now is to get his salary off the books next year.

    I don't think it will happen.
    See updated post.

  24. #849
    I'm poplovin' it! TJastal's Avatar
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    Meh all you like.

    That makes one possible team that may be of interest. It's also the team he refused to move to last year when he was traded there WITH Billups at the start of the season.
    Meh.

    I think he thought the pistons still had a legitimate chance for a le back then, and the nuggets at that time sucked ass thx to Iverson.

    He has said before he wants to get a ring before he retires well the nuggets of today offer a much better chance.

  25. #850
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    The list of teams that would trade expiring contracts for Dice may be completely empty.

    Any team that might be on that list has to meet two qualifications:

    1. Most obviously, that team must want Dice to play an important role.

    2. Dice must be willing to play for that team.

    Given Dice's comments after signing with Spurs that it was going to be the Spurs or retirement, it's possible that there may no team that Dice will report to. If that's the case, the Spurs will have to spend a first rounder to get his contract off the books.
    Yeah, that's basically the reality I came to after doing the research. There's a slight glimmer of hope in Denver and maybe Milwaukee (oddly enough) ... but that's about it.

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