One Simple Request

[Chomag]

What could he have done to work on it considering who their team was at the start of this year?


I'm defending the line ups they're trying?

I'm defending throwing in the season to play some un-provens because people have a chicken little complex going on here.

Throwing away the season? Last time I checked the Spurs are struggling. Ian and Hairston have no part in how bad the Spurs are now. So I would say that the current roster is throwing in the season more then Hairston and Ian are.

Do you honestly think that currently the Spurs are still conteders?

[MrFundamental]

Throwing away the season? Last time I checked the Spurs are struggling. Ian and Hairston have no part in how bad the Spurs are now. So I would say that the current roster is throwing in the season more then Hairston and Ian are.

The Spurs are only 2.5 behind Dallas SW and 5 behind Denver in the West. Yeah, they're struggling, but not enough to start throwing D-leaguers in the mix; especially after everyone is calling for some consistency.

Do you honestly think that currently the Spurs are still conteders?

No, but I haven't thought that for a while. Now the question is, do they possibly throw away the season to start playing everyone, or do they try to find a line up that works and possibly salvage the season the best they can.

[Obstructed_View]

Do they not practice?

I'm sure the Toros practice. Does Pop bring Bogans down to Austin to practice with them?

Stats don't show everything. But if you want to look at stats, Bogans is currently shooting betting, rebounding better, has less TO/game, and more steals.

Umm...yeah. If you want to look at stats:

Nothing, who said anything about him starting all the time? See, that would be a strawman you just posted.

Who said anything about starting him all the time? Um, the coach?

Popovich opened with his 17th unique starting lineup, and one he said he plans to keep for the time being: Matt Bonner for Antonio McDyess at center, Keith Bogans for Richard Jefferson at small forward.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/84670157.html

So you say that they should start playing an unproven big man and a D-leaguer to save the season?

The only reason one is unproven and the other is a D-leaguer is because of the guy that thinks starting Bogans and Bonner is a good idea. The guy you're defending with really lame chumpdumper type arguments.

You're right, we could sure use some lock-down D from that strawman* team you're building to get us over this hump...

Let's make it simple enough for you to follow: When the Spurs are losing, and they've got two guys that are getting minutes and not producing, I'm wondering why anyone should be worried at your warnings that putting in two other guys will result in losses because they won't produce. It's not like the team has been relying on all that production from those two guys in order to beat juggernauts like Indiana and Philly.

* You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[HarlemHeat37]

It isn't difficult to understand..

The Spurs aren't going anywhere with their current lineup..they should play their young guys to see if they have any game and whether the Spurs should look to keep them next year and beyond..the Spurs should be looking at the future at this point..it's not a difficult concept to understand..it doesn't make a difference to the team right now because the guys that are currently playing can't possibly give the team a better chance to win..Bogans is one of the worst players in the NBA and our bigs don't provide any needs..

This argument that Hairston didn't do enough in practice doesn't make any sense..

Generally, when 2 role players are battling for a position, the one that outplays the other will win the role, especially when he does by a significant margin..their stats in preseason were:

Bogans: 14.3 MPG, 1.7 PPG on 9.5% from the field, 1.7 RPG, 0.4 APG..
Hairston: 15 MPG, 6.6 PPG on 55.2% from the field, 2.1 RPG, 2 APG..

Hairston was also significantly better defensively, which is obvious to anybody that watched in preseason..those are very, very solid role player stats for a guy playing 15 MPG per game..instead, the role went to Bogans, a guy that had one of the worst preseasons imaginable..it was also funny because Hairston knew the system better too..

LOL @ "Toros- do they not practice?"..he leads the entire D-league in scoring..he literally could not do anything else to "prove" that he deserves a shot..

Ian should play by default, because of the type of physical tools he brings..it should have been a no-brainer to play him early in the season, especially since McDyess takes a few months to get in game shape..

These guys might not end up being good enough to contribute, there's a very solid chance that this will be the case..the whole point is that the team should find out what they have now that they have to think about the future..it would make sense if the players ahead of them were contributing, but they simply aren't..

[MrFundamental]

I'm sure the Toros practice. Does Pop bring Bogans down to Austin to practice with them?

I don't know, I also don't know what that has to do with how Hairston looks when practicing.

Umm...yeah. If you want to look at stats:

Great, you can see I'm right.

Who said anything about starting him all the time? Um, the coach?

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/84670157.html

And that lasted a whole game, Awesome!!!

The only reason one is unproven and the other is a D-leaguer is because of the guy that thinks starting Bogans and Bonner is a good idea. The guy you're defending with really lame chumpdumper type arguments.

That's the only reason. What a in joke. Do you really think that Hairston and Mahinmi are outperforming everyone in Practice and the only reason that Pops doesn't play them is because of Bogans and Bonner? Wow, pass whatever the you are smoking.

Let's make it simple enough for you to follow: When the Spurs are losing, and they've got two guys that are getting minutes and not producing, I'm wondering why anyone should be worried at your warnings that putting in two other guys will result in losses because they won't produce. It's not like the team has been relying on all that production from those two guys in order to beat juggernauts like Indiana and Philly.

Yes, you are completely right. Let's just fill the team with D-Leaguers cause it could possibly work.

* You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

You started it
But, yes, I do know what it means, perhaps you should double check.

[HarlemHeat37]

Also with Bogans, he literally has no skills..at least Mason and even Finley are great NBA shooters..Bogans literally has no skills..he also isn't a good leaper, he doesn't have any lateral quickness, his basketball IQ is pretty low since he commits a ton of stupid fouls..what exactly does he have that makes him worthy of being on an NBA roster, let alone STARTING?!..

He's getting more minutes with the Spurs than he was with a horrible Bucks team last year..

[MrFundamental]

These guys might not end up being good enough to contribute, there's a very solid chance that this will be the case..the whole point is that the team should find out what they have now that they have to think about the future..it would make sense if the players ahead of them were contributing, but they simply aren't..

If that's the case, then they should actually prepare for next season. Bench Tony the rest of the year and let him heal. Bench RJ until he figures out the system, and play new guys the rest of the year.

[MrFundamental]

Also with Bogans, he literally has no skills..at least Mason and even Finley are great NBA shooters..Bogans literally has no skills..he also isn't a good leaper, he doesn't have any lateral quickness, his basketball IQ is pretty low since he commits a ton of stupid fouls..what exactly does he have that makes him worthy of being on an NBA roster, let alone STARTING?!..

Bogans has a better FG% then Mase. RMJ is shooting terrible this year. But yes, that doesn't mean either should be starting.

[SpurNation]

The mentality of a compe or always makes them believe they have a shot at winning.

But is it better to let a season go in order to have a shot at getting higher caliber talent? Or is it best to pursue the goal of winning it all now with mediocre talent and possibly lose out on what could help the team in the future after acquiring talent?

I haven't seen this team, this year, show as of yet an ability to be consistent enough to win it all much less compete at a level to even garnish hope that they could miraculously be compe ive in a playoff situation.

That said...a compe or will always do their best to win no matter the cir stances. But if your ammunition is proving to be duds...a general might have to consider retreating so as to reload with a more effective arsenal.

It wouldn't be "giving up" more so than trying to insure that your next campaign has a chance.

That said...I'll root and hope this team finds a way to win this year...but I wouldn't be upset if they call it in until next year. To that I wouldn't mind seeing what Ian, Malik and possibly somebody else from the D-league might provide. But doing that would obviously be calling it in. And I don't think you would want something like that to be THAT obvious.

It would be interesting to see if better talent would be the difference or if it truly is the coaching philosophy that's causing the problems thus far. Perhaps a little of both?

[ElNono]

Is that you TPark?

[Obstructed_View]

Bogans has a better FG% then Mase. RMJ is shooting terrible this year. But yes, that doesn't mean either should be starting.

1/1000 of a percent better.

, you don't even believe the crap you're peddling in these threads.

[MrFundamental]

That said...I'll root and hope this team finds a way to win this year...but I wouldn't be upset if they call it in until next year. To that I wouldn't mind seeing what Ian, Malik and possibly somebody else from the D-league might provide. But doing that would obviously be calling it in. And I don't think you would want something like that to be THAT obvious.

I agree, I wouldn't mind seeing that happening.

It would be interesting to see if better talent would be the difference or if it truly is the coaching philosophy that's causing the problems thus far. Perhaps a little of both?

Perhaps both, I think Pops has had it relatively easy with finding rotations to use and use constantly, the past couple years have shown that you can't always rely on that. It's tough to say if he should just stick with a starting five through thick and thin, or continue tweaking hoping to find a diamond somewhere.

[MrFundamental]

1/1000 of a percent better.

, you don't even believe the crap you're peddling in these threads.

You brought up stats. Are you saying that's worse shooting? And after yesterday it's up to 1/10 fg% and 5/10ths 3 pt%

[Obstructed_View]

You brought up stats. Are you saying that's worse shooting? And after yesterday it's up to 1/10 fg% and 5/10ths 3 pt%

No, I said Mason was putting up better numbers, and you brought up individual stats expecting not to be called out on it. Are you saying that 1/1000 of a percent shooting makes up for the three more points that Mason's scoring? Are you really?

[benefactor]

Is that you TPark?

lol...I was thinking the same thing while I was reading.

[MrFundamental]

No, I said Mason was putting up better numbers, and you brought up individual stats expecting not to be called out on it. Are you saying that 1/1000 of a percent shooting makes up for the three more points that Mason's scoring? Are you really?

No I'm not saying anything like that strawman you put forth. If you only wanted to talk about scoring you should have said so.

[jjktkk]

I think I have figured this out, ok Pop is not playing these Malik and Ian because he would look bad if they come in and actually give the team a spark and having everyone say that he should have been playing these guys alot earlier kind of like the the George Hill thing from last years playoffs, so it is my belief that his reputation is far more important than possibly having these guys save their season....lets see what all the Popsuckers have to say!

I almost wasn't going to reply to your bone-head theory, but I couldn't help myself. BTW I'm no "pop-sucker". With all the wacky line up changes, and lack of playing and sticking with a consistant lineup, Pop is tarnishing his reputation.

[elbamba]

Did you watch Gist in the '09 summer league? He was one of the worst players on the team and like McClinton, didn't look like anything resembling an NBA player. Sure, he has the physical tools, but that's not enough. Even before that, Gist was a fringe prospect and a long shot to be a long term NBA player. Hairston and Mahinmi I'm intrigued with and think both could be rotation players in the NBA, but neither will ever be a "key to a le run!". It's going to take myriad things, all more profound than throwing a bunch of random young, athletic players on the court, to get this team back to being a championship caliber team.

Did you see Hill in 2008 summer league? Summer league is a great place to showcase talent but in the end it does not mean squash. You have to let players actually play in a real game that counts.

[Obstructed_View]

No I'm not saying anything like that strawman you put forth. If you only wanted to talk about scoring you should have said so.

Again, let's revisit the definition of "strawman", which is a fallacy created by misrepresenting the opposing opinion.

Let's review the tape, shall we?

I said Mason puts up better numbers. You then said "if you want to look at stats, Bogans is currently shooting betting (sic)"

Asking if you are giving Bogans' .001 shooting percentage the same weight as Mason's two and a half extra ppg is completely logical based upon the argument you attempted to put forth. There's no strawman argument there. If you don't like questions asking if your statements are meant the way you stated them, perhaps you shouldn't be twisting my arguments and asking ridiculous questions that have nothing to do with them.

Despite the turmoil and uncertainty Mason has had to face this season, which has at least in-part contributed to his game going to , he's still putting up better scoring numbers than Bogans and all other stats are at least as good to a point of statistical irrelevance. Therefore if one were to posit that Mason should be getting the same opportunities at a secure position in the rotation to prove himself, there's not really a rational argument against it.

[Obstructed_View]

lol...I was thinking the same thing while I was reading.

I've thought that since he appeared out of nowhere blowing Pop and asking ridiculous questions in response to facts. When someone's pretending to be Chumpdumper without the wit, it's probably TPark.

[ElNono]

I've thought that since he appeared out of nowhere blowing Pop and asking ridiculous questions in response to facts. When someone's pretending to be Chumpdumper without the wit, it's probably TPark.

This is the guy that said we traded Ratliff because he was a washed up 37 year old with a bad back, then the next day Theo played 20 minutes, blocked two shots, and played the night right after in a back to back.

I'm not saying the Ratler was our savior. But he was barely given a chance, and he was obviously traded to save money, and because we simply do not play bigs enough, nothing else.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm not saying the Ratler was our savior. But he was barely given a chance, and he was obviously traded to save money, and because we simply do not play bigs enough, nothing else.

I'd say that the Ratliff salary dump means that there's a belief somewhere in the front office that the Spurs have zero chance to make a le run. Again, I'm not sure why someone hasn't been called to answer why he was on the roster at all this season if he wasn't going to play.

[MrFundamental]

Again, let's revisit the definition of "strawman", which is a fallacy created by misrepresenting the opposing opinion.

You mean like saying " Are you saying that 1/1000 of a percent shooting makes up for the three more points that Mason's scoring? Are you really?"

Yep, seems to me that you are misrepresenting my opinion on that matter.

[MrFundamental]

This is the guy that said we traded Ratliff because he was a washed up 37 year old with a bad back, then the next day Theo played 20 minutes, blocked two shots, and played the night right after in a back to back.

Good for Theo, holy , we should have given him 10 million for that output.

BTW, aside from his 2 blocks, what were his other stats for the 2 games?

15.5 minutes 1 point 1 block, .5 assist, .5 TO, and 2.5 rebounds

Mind numbing...

I'm not saying the Ratler was our savior.

Yep, just highly alluding to it...

But he was barely given a chance, and he was obviously traded to save money, and because we simply do not play bigs enough, nothing else.

Bull .

[MrFundamental]

Again, I'm not sure why someone hasn't been called to answer why he was on the roster at all this season if he wasn't going to play.

We should ask every team that that has over 12 men on their roster.