Reply With Quote
Your not gonna get the public option through reconciliation...the Byrd rule would kill that..Not really, I mean, reconciliation is what's going to be used, and for that you don't need the GOP and there's no filibuster...
Not really, I mean, reconciliation is what's going to be used, and for that you don't need the GOP and there's no filibuster...
blue-dog democrats are, well, democrats... exactly what I mean by this being solely on the Dems...
Your not gonna get the public option through reconciliation...the Byrd rule would kill that..Not really, I mean, reconciliation is what's going to be used, and for that you don't need the GOP and there's no filibuster...
Thank God for the Byrd Rule!
I think the Democrats are screwed this November.
Either they so corrupt the legislative process to shoehorn something through so Obama can finally claim a legislative and campaign victory -- thus pissing off a vast majority of the electorate, or;
They fail miserably, showing the electorate what ineffectual piss ants they are that they had a veto-proof majority and yet, couldn't get anything substantial done.
Biden can overrule Frumin... granted, it hasn't been used since Hubert Humphrey was a VP, but it's an entirely legal strategy and one that we'll see as the GOP starts calling out the rule to scratch off stuff from the bill...
An actual real problem is the budget challenge:
Democrats have to show $2 billion in savings in their reconciliation bill over FIVE years and cannot create any deficits thereafter, or Republicans can pounce with a budget challenge. Their bill cannot create any unfunded mandates of more than $69 million, according to Budget Committee staffers, or there's another budget challenge.
Howard Dean: Health bill hangs Dem in bents and Obama out to dry in elections
Isn't he the former head of the DNC and, a doctor, to boot?
Last edited by Yonivore; 03-04-2010 at 10:37 PM. Reason: updated Dean's title
Putting aside the fact that the proposed healthcare legislation is , I would actually be glad if they start to get done without second guessing if it's good for elections or not...
I thought governing based on polls was a bad thing?
So, you'd accept just because it was an accomplishment?
No, I accept that governing is not a popularity contest.
Nor should passing legislation for the sake of accomplishment be an objective.
You REALLY don't know why he's so adamant to passing this legislation?
Yes. Because the success of his presidency is dependent on him passing something, anything.
Why do you think he's so adamant?
But, I think no matter what happens, Obama and the Democrats lose in November...they've pretty much sealed their fate already.
Every time Obama opens his mouth on the subject from here on out is just icing on the cake.
Because if he manages to get re-elected, the status quo indicates that Medicare would be exploding in his face midway through his second term.
Obviously, passing a simple legislation that just cuts Medicare benefits is not going to fly, so the cuts are getting passed along with some populist measures such as mandating private insurance to accept customers with pre-existing conditions.
Seriously, you believe that's why he's so adamant about passing this piece of ?
Why not just pass Medicare reform?
Because it's political suicide to do that. Neither the GOP or the Dems want to do that.
Why not just pass Medicare reform?
Let me rephrase that: Neither the GOP or the Dems want to be labeled as the party that did that.
But being labeled as the President that ed up 17% of our economy -- on top of an already critical economic situation -- is just fine with Obama?
Listen, I hope Obamacare doesn't pass even though there's a chance it might. Either way, I think the Democrats are screwed this November and if you thought Obama had trouble getting stuff done his first two years...
Obamacare will pass. And I don't like this legislation any more than you do.But being labeled as the President that ed up 17% of our economy -- on top of an already critical economic situation -- is just fine with Obama?
Listen, I hope Obamacare doesn't pass even though there's a chance it might. Either way, I think the Democrats are screwed this November and if you thought Obama had trouble getting stuff done his first two years...
And I can't wait until Pelosi and Reid are gone. But I actually think he'll get more done if he already knows he can't force things through and goes straight to wheeling and dealing with the GOP. It might not be 100% of what he wants to do, but it will get things moving. Don't forget that those GOP guys made campaign promises to get there.
Insurance is about nothing more than pooling risk. This does, in effect, "socialize" everybody's risk.
If you buy insurance, you are then a socialist.
Live with that, know it, love it.
This is considered beneficial because the problem with such things is that true costs CANNOT be known before hand. You could be the healthiest, sprout-eating, jogging mother- er in your state, but still get hit by a car and require $100,000's of expensive operations.
The best ANYONE can do is get a rough guess as to individual risk, and let the law of large numbers do its thing.
The ultimate costs are less to everybody because it minimizes the disruption and costs caused by getting sick/injured and not being able to pay for it.
Those costs would get shifted to you anyways, through a variety of market-mechanisms. Either you can pay for it up front at a total lower cost for society, or you can go the more expensive route, keep all the cost-shifting/sharing hidden, and end up paying more in the long run.
Yeah, that's right, I just said that a form of socialism is better for economic growth.
what specific part of what is proposed do you dislike?
You live in a Democracy.
Get used to it.
Or move to Venezuela.
Socialism != "Pooling"
Socialism = Public (State) Ownership
You are categorically, completely, wrong.
The part where there's no public option?. Or the part where you're under obligation by the government to contract services with a private company or you can be penalized.
Governing happens AFTER the popularity contest... you get elected, and then there will be times where you have to make tough choices.
Does none of these guys have convictions anymore? Do they really need to look at a poll before they raise their hand or keep it down?
Is everything dictated by the impact it will have on their next election?
That's just some chicken way to exercise power, and the reason pretty much almost nothing got done in the first two years of this government.
They won the popularity contest, and they were handed power and a responsibility. None of these people are stepping up to the plate.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
