Too much Bonner killed us

[yavozerb]

Damn, I forgot this thread was about bonner since people are ing about bogans as well...

[J_Paco]

Mat Bonner is the biggest choke-artist on the Spurs in the last 10-15 years. You can tell the guy has no confidence on those threes in pressure situations, just look at his reaction on the three he made in the 4th quarter, and their almost always a guaranteed brick. Add to this the fact that he can't rebound nor gives consistent effort and is the most nonathletic player on the court. Well, this all adds up to a player that shouldn't be given heavy minutes on a playoff-contending team.

And come on - what spacing? Teams leave Bonner open all the time. Go back to OT - Bonner's brick. No Hawk was within 10 feet of him. Why? They were more than happy to let him shoot.

That's because there is a 62% chance it'll be a brick and the those odds sky-rocket in crunch-time. When will our coach realize that whatever positives Bonner brings (3-point shooting) is trumped by the negatives (no athleticism, mediocre rebounding & weak defense)?

[My Fault]

Not really. All you said was he played bad. I'll take that as a "no he didn't deserve 25 minutes". With that being said, do you still think it's silly that people always blame the same guys for losses? Can you name me 5 good games Bogans has had in the last 20? I'll wait.
It is a team effort. It's just a shame when one guy has no effort. That brings the collective effort down.

Maybe comprehension isn't your strong point. I'm not defending Bogans. The team lost because the team blew it.

[Shastafarian]

Damn, I forgot this thread was about bonner since people are ing about bogans as well...

" ing"

I'll ask you the same question I asked basketball einstein. Did Bogans deserve 25 minutes tonight?

[santymrc]

This is not the year of the hairston!!maybe next season, it is bogans time..get over it

Are you Bogans father or what??????????
Bogans can't get anything right. Malik at least brings hustle and heart.

[Shastafarian]

Blaming Bonner, Bogans and Pop are what all the kids are doing.

Maybe comprehension isn't your strong point. I'm not defending Bogans. The team lost because the team blew it.

Maybe I didn't comprehend your first post. You weren't defending Bogans? What was the point then?

[santymrc]

Maybe comprehension isn't your strong point. I'm not defending Bogans. The team lost because the team blew it.

In a way, you're right. But without Manu's 38 pts and TD's 29 pts you're not even in the game at the end.
I'm not gonna blame them for this loss, they bust their asses there tonite, its the rest of the team role players not stepping up.

[yavozerb]

Are you Bogans father or what??????????
Bogans can't get anything right. Malik at least brings hustle and heart.

So does bonner and look what it does for him on ST...No, I am not bogans father, just someone who realizes hairston just isnt ready for a large chunk of minutes some of you people want to give him..

[Shastafarian]

So does bonner and look what it does for him on ST...No, I am not bogans father, just someone who realizes hairston just isnt ready for a large chunk of minutes some of you people want to give him..

What makes you say Hairston isn't ready? , what makes you say we want him to get a "large chunk of minutes"?

[santymrc]

So does bonner and look what it does for him on ST...No, I am not bogans father, just someone who realizes hairston just isnt ready for a large chunk of minutes some of you people want to give him..

Please, enlight us with your wisdom and tell us why Malik isn't ready.

[My Fault]

Maybe I didn't comprehend your first post. You weren't defending Bogans? What was the point then?

After all the times I've repeated the same thing you still don't seem to understand. Instead of posting it another five times, I'll let you just go back read it again and hope it will sink in.

[yavozerb]

Look, the spurs almost won this game without one of the top pg's in the NBA..If tony is out there, who knows, we may have won this game by a large margin..The guys played there asses off and almost pulled out a W against one of the best teams in the NBA on the road..I am actually liking how competative the team is currnetly and am hoping they continue this trend when TP comes back..

[Shastafarian]

After all the times I repeated the same thing you still don't seem to understand. Instead of posting it another five times, I'll let you just go back read it again and hope it will sink in.

Sweet dodge. Yeah I get it. You think basketball is a team game which means a loss is a team loss. You keep failing to understand my point that guys like Bogans make that team loss all that much easier since they bring the entire team down (like on defense!). Kudos for putting me down and not understanding my point in the least.

[santymrc]

Look, the spurs almost won this game without one of the top pg's in the NBA..If tony is out there, who knows, we may have won this game by a large margin..The guys played there asses off and almost pulled out a W against one of the best teams in the NBA on the road..I am actually liking how competative the team is currnetly and am hoping they continue this trend when TP comes back..

o? You're not answering the question.
Enlight us with your wisdom, yet again plz.

[mexicanjunior]

Look, the spurs almost won this game without one of the top pg's in the NBA..If tony is out there, who knows, we may have won this game by a large margin..

Nice deflection...the "injury excuses losses" shield is always a solid force field.

[santymrc]

Nice deflection...the "injury excuses losses" shield is always a solid force field.

Indeed, but, I do agree with him in that tho. If we had TP we might have won the game, just "might", we will never know.

I do like to see us compete against elite teams, to have a chance to win is great, but most importantly, you got to win.

We will see when TP comes back how we do. I wont quit on this team for one lose against ATL with a bad officiating crew, on the road and without TP, that's for sure.

[yavozerb]

From the games I have seen (about 90% so far) I think Bogans not only is quicker on defense but he is also much better with help defense as well. Bogans is not an unathletic NBA player, I have seen make some good blocks, but I do agree that hairston is definatly a better athlete and can make up for some of his mistakes with it. Bogans on offense may not be able to drive to the basket as well as hairston but I do believe he much more confident and is willing to shoot if needed (to yalls dismay)..Look, I enjoy watching hairston play as well and would not even mind if took some of bogans minutes but the fact is it seems at this point the game just doesnt flow as smooth to him as bogans and I think thats why pop likes bogans..

[Man In Black]

Oh and the spacing argument is over-rated. David Robinson didn't space the floor. Bynum doesn't space it for Gasol. Kedrick Perkins doesn't space it for Garnett.

When David was here, Tim Duncan wasn't wearing a knee-brace and tip jams were the norm. Bynum & Gasol run the triangle, in that offense, the spacing comes the post, so in essence, they do. Kendrick Perkins is the INSIDE guy, ipso fact. Garnett's first position on the floor is 17 feet away. He moves in to rebound.

That spacing thing is something that worked well with Horry...but it's not like it's a staple of winning championships to have a 3 shooting PF.

I could agree with that. Dirk hasn't won and he's the best 3 PF out there. It's a matchup-thing and the Spurs were doing well enough with Bonner in there. Do I think Dyess would've locked up a W? It's quite possible, but it wasn't a guarantee. The spacing is still important, whether it's Dyess or anyone else. This team, other than Manu and to a lesser extent, TP, doesn't win on athletic feats of prestidigitation. They play Catholic School Share The Ball offense that wins on precision. When they're on, they're tough to beat.

It's not a staple of Spurs offense either. In fact Horry is about the only one in history to do it.

It's an adjustment to account for the strengths of a given team. Again, Tim ain't tip-jam Tim anymore, so the team plays with lots of misdirection and precision. The spacing isn't a by-product, it's intended for a purpose.

Having a perimeter oriented bigman works great when you have a bigman drawing doubles...Duncan doesn't do that much anymore so the tactic isn't as effective and it's not as important as it used to be.

Duncan does still command double's but it's a looser double. Plus, the penetrating wings(OK Manu) and TP, still need some attack paths to get to the rim. If the bigs bring their covers into the paint, then it's pollution and no one is getting in.

Time to turn the page on the 3 shooting PF as a key to the offense and get back to a more traditional line up.

Sure it wokrs situationally(situation being Duncan pulling multiple defenders or the defense clogging the paint).....it's damn sure not some essential must have part of winning basketball though.

See, this is where we differ. When you say situationally, then you're admitting to the fact, that at that time, it's essential. To me it's just another tool that Pop has in his quiver. This time, it didn't work, but it almost did. Had the team been able to execute, or had they just had a modi of fair calls, we all know the outcome would have been different. THEMS THE BREAKS.

[Shastafarian]

From the games I have seen (about 90% so far) I think Bogans not only is quicker on defense but he is also much better with help defense as well. Bogans is not an unathletic NBA player, I have seen make some good blocks

[santymrc]

From the games I have seen (about 90% so far) I think Bogans not only is quicker on defense but he is also much better with help defense as well. Bogans is not an unathletic NBA player, I have seen make some good blocks, but I do agree that hairston is definatly a better athlete and can make up for some of his mistakes with it. Bogans on offense may not be able to drive to the basket as well as hairston but I do believe he much more confident and is willing to shoot if needed (to yalls dismay)..Look, I enjoy watching hairston play as well and would not even mind if took some of bogans minutes but the fact is it seems at this point the game just doesnt flow as smooth to him as bogans and I think thats why pop likes bogans..

Hilarious.
I think you have to clean up your TV screen. You got it wrong, ala Keith Hairston - Malik Bogans.

[angelbelow]

I think it would have been nice to see what Malik can do against tougher compe ion. Its too bad he got the shaft, perhaps Pop just doesnt trust him.

[GhosTown]

Too much Bonner killed the Spurs tonite. I was at the game and I saw Ian workout for 15 minutes. This guy was balling. He basically wasn't missing. He looked like he was warming up to actually play. Then Manu came out, followed by Bonner. Bonner hardly warmed up. Between Bonner and Ian, Bonner got all the PT, while we absolutely got killed in the paint. I saw it with my own eyes, Pop doesn't have a clue as to what Ian can do, because there is no way he would have watched what I saw and still played Bonner and Blair when he was getting killed on the glass.

Pop is done. The Spurs were embarrassed at the Highlight Factory. We should have won this game.

Manu is alright with me, he even took time to sign my kid's basketball, not a bad deal.

[OrEmuN]

From the games I have seen (about 90% so far) I think Bogans not only is quicker on defense but he is also much better with help defense as well. Bogans is not an unathletic NBA player, I have seen make some good blocks, but I do agree that hairston is definatly a better athlete and can make up for some of his mistakes with it. Bogans on offense may not be able to drive to the basket as well as hairston but I do believe he much more confident and is willing to shoot if needed (to yalls dismay)..Look, I enjoy watching hairston play as well and would not even mind if took some of bogans minutes but the fact is it seems at this point the game just doesnt flow as smooth to him as bogans and I think thats why pop likes bogans..

I am pretty sure that you are not sober/on crack while you are watching the games.

[sabar]

Bonner wasn't the reason that the Spurs lost IMO, although I agree he made some crucial mistakes..I do agree McDyess should have played more though..

Hill was absolutely horrible on both ends of the floor..Jefferson missed crucial rotations on Horford when Duncan went to trap on the baseline, leading to 2 clutch jump shots from Horford..stupid turnovers all over the place for the Spurs..Duncan with some stupid subtle mistakes and Manu choking down the stretch in regulation..refs were horrible in Atlanta's favor..

Oh, and obviously can't forget Centerpiece getting torched and missing 3 wide open 3s..

+1

OP: tunnel vision logic = fail

[ElNono]

I think part of the problem and that's somewhat tangential to this is the constant tweaking of rotations. At home Hairston comes in first off the bench for RJ, today, for whatever reason, Mason goes ahead of him. Bonner plays well his usual limited minutes off the bench, and then he starts the second half.

On top of that, you have the usual issues:
- Bogans plays an inordinate amount of minutes while stopping nobody.
- Hill disappears on the road
- Bonner shrinks in the crunch
- Interior defense/rebounding was lacking

Pop needs to understand that with Tony out, one of Duncan or Ginobili need to be out there at all times. They both sat in the 2nd quarter and that's when the Hawks made their run.

I thought we played pretty well all things considered. But Hill needs to start showing up ASAP or we're toast. Especially tomorrow when TD and MG are probably going to be dead tired.