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I agree with a Bush.
'It's ridiculous'
Gov. Bush criticizes NCAA ban on FSU's nickname
Posted: Tuesday August 9, 2005 8:54PM; Updated: Tuesday August 9, 2005 8:54PM
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) -- Gov. Jeb Bush criticized NCAA officials on Tuesday for their decision to penalize Florida State for using an American Indian nickname and symbols, saying they instead insulted the university and a proud Seminole Tribe of Florida.
The NCAA's finding that the school's Seminoles nickname is "hostile and offensive," instead of honoring American Indians has the opposite effect, the governor said, because the tribe supports the school's use of its name.
"I think it's offensive to native Americans ... the Seminole Indian tribe who support the traditions of FSU," Bush said on his way into a Cabinet meeting. "I think they insult those people by telling them, 'No, no, you're not smart enough to understand this. You should be feeling really horrible about this.' It's ridiculous."
Meanwhile, attorney Barry Richard, who successfully led the legal challenge on behalf of Republican George W. Bush in the 2000 presidential recount in Florida, has agreed to represent the school in its case against the NCAA, Florida State President T.K. Wetherell said Wednesday.
"We recognize this is an emotional issue in Florida, and in other parts of the country there are people who feel just as strongly being opposed," NCAA spokesman Bob Williams said Tuesday. "We believe this decision was made on sound ground legally though as I said before there is an appeal process in place."
The school's board of trustees are scheduled to meet Wednesday in emergency session to discuss elements of its formal response to the NCAA.
The university has until Feb. 1 to make a formal appeal to the NCAA executive committee.
Florida State, Illinois and Utah are among 18 schools with an American Indian nickname or logo that will be prohibited by the NCAA from displaying them in postseason events, starting in February.
The nicknames will not be allowed on team uniforms and mascots will not be allowed to perform at games, the NCAA announced Friday. Cheerleaders and band members will also be barred from using American Indians on their uniforms beginning in 2008.
The costuming and rigging of the school's symbols, Chief Osceola and the Appaloosa horse, Renegade, are designed by the Seminole Indian Tribe of Florida.
Bush said he fully agrees with Wetherell, who will sue the NCAA if their decision on the use of Seminoles is not rescinded.
"How politically correct can we get?" Bush asked. "The folks that make these decisions need to get out more often."
"If you have the Seminole Tribe and Gov. Bush on your side, how can you go wrong?" Florida State University Vice President Lee Hinkle said Wednesday.
Bush said the NCAA must have better things to do that sit around worrying about the nicknames adopted by its member ins utions.
"You know what they ought to be worried about? The graduation rates of most college athletes," the second-term Florida governor said. "Maybe if they had some suggestions on that, that universities could apply and could implement, they could be doing a service to all of us."
Williams noted that student-athletes, on the average, graduate at a higher rate than the average student.
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Halle- ing-lulah!
Last edited by Johnny_Blaze_47; 08-10-2005 at 11:29 AM.
I agree with a Bush.
That's why they call it Flori-duh.
Don't you work at a newspaper, JB?
I hope you don't write the headlines!
I know I would be pissed if my high school changed their nickname... and fight song... and cheers/yells that have been around for 40-50 years.
Last edited by SWC Bonfire; 08-10-2005 at 11:31 AM.
Just caught it. And no, I don't write the headlines.Don't you work at a newspaper, JB?
I hope you don't write the headlines!
I leave that to the copy desk.
Yes, this is really stupid. There are cir stances where these kinds of names can be used offensively and inappropriately. Having a mascot dress up in a headdress and costume and do a ritual dance is as offensive as it would be if some team were called the Priests and came out and lampooned the Eucharist. Doing the tomahawk chop and chanting is as offensive as taking "The Old Rugged Cross" and lampooning it into a sports song. Having a grinning red hook-nosed Indian cartoon as a team logo is just as bad as that Mexican postage stamp with the caricatured black guy.
But Myles Brand has taken it too far with banning the national names like "Ute," "Illini," and "Seminole." By the same logic, aren't the state names of Utah, Illinois, North and South Dakota, and Indiana offensive? Let's just have Illinois go by "The University at Urbana-Champaign," OK?
And if he wants to be consistent in his self-righteous politically correct liberal asswipe nanny-state crusade, then of course Notre Dame cannot call themselves the "Fighting Irish" anymore. Try that one, asshole.
Oh, wait, I'm sorry, calling it a "crusade" is religio-centric and offensive. Use " ed so-called initiative" instead.
Just have the schools donate to the Native American Tribe they are "honoring" and it will be settled.
To with that! My taxes are high enough, thank you very much.
Not like my old HS has any national exposure (or statewide, unfortunately).
I know in the case of the University of Utah, the use of the "Ute" nickname is a partnership between the university and the tribe.
This is awesome. I hope the NCAA takes it up the ass on this one, they deserve it.
PC, shut up and play ball assholes.
Did your school ask permission? From what I understand, if someone approaches the tribe about using names, symbols, etc., the tribal leaders are flattered and will offer guidance about the proper use of their traditions.To with that! My taxes are high enough, thank you very much.
Not like my old HS has any national exposure (or statewide, unfortunately
But if someone just takes the names and symbols without asking them, that is very offensive and rude.
Example: the Zuni symbol that the state of New Mexico uses. Long ago, the white government just took it and started using it. The Pueblos were upset about this because the government would distort and misuse the symbol. But when Southwest Airlines approached the tribe about using the Zuni symbol on a plane, the Pueblos were pleased and consulted with the airline on the best way to do it.
Apparently, if you ask nicely and treat them with respect, those folks are happy to cooperate, which is really impressive, since our ancestors nearly exterminated them.
Now a lot of these schools have formed partnerships with the tribes to use their names and recreate their traditions respectfully. But Myles Brand has decided to play holier-than-thou and sever these relationships.
Do you know anyone with the last name of Brown who is upset at Cleveland?
Maybe dolphins are too keen on a NFL being named after them....no one ever asked them.
Maybe the should remane the Kansas City Chiefs...the Chefs.
One can take polictcal correctness too far....this is one such time.
It is only offensive if you let I be offensive. It is just a name. There is a time and place for being careful of the words or choose this goes too far.
Having the little background on Seminoles that I do, I'd have to say that getting rid of the nickname is a good thing - even if the "tribe" thinks it's okay. I say this mainly because most members of the Seminole tribe are actually not registered and therefore cannot vote in tribal government decisions. They choose not to be enlisted in the tribe because their dislike and distrust for the American government is so great that they do not want to be affiliated with an tribal/native organization that was founded according to US guidelines. I have no doubt that some registered members of the tribe think the nickname is okay - due to the fact that it gives them a lot more exposure which in turn is good news for the tribe monetarily through casinos/crafts/etc - but I can say pretty confidently that they do not endorse the name because it honors the tribe.
No. They have had the same mascot since at least the 1920's, possibly earlier.
Clearly you haven't read my contributions to this thread and are just giving a knee-jerk reaction. You don't appear to have very deep or well-thought-out opinions.
And all your examples are silly. Paul Brown named the team after himself. Dolphins aren't people. Chiefs is as generic a name as "Generals."
I don't see how it is "politically correct" to go out of one's way to treat a group of people with respect. I thought old-fashioned values put a premium on that. How hard is it to go meet some people, shake their hand, and ask?
Myles Brand has gone and decided that it is always wrong to use Native American nicknames, no matter what kind of relationship the schools might have with the tribes themselves. He's on a holier-than-thou high horse. He's taken his personal views too far.
But there are instances where Native names and symbols are used offensively. Should the power of ins utions like the NCAA be used to ban them? I don't think so. I don't like the use of power in that way. Social pressure and shame are good enough.
But that doesn't mean that Chief Wahoo represents the moral high ground.
Would it be OK if a school nicknamed itself the Mexicans and had a short, fat mascot with a big sombrero and fake mustache who carried around a bottle of tequila?
Would it be OK if a team nicknamed itself the Messiahs and had a mascot with long brown hair and a beard who wore a rough tunic and had nail wounds through his hands and feet?
Or how about a team called the Jews featuring a black-clad hooked-nose man wearing a skull cap and carrying around bags of money?
Liberals doing their best to take the america out of america
That makes no freakin' sense at all. Oh, but taking away our civil liberties is just fine?
Yep....just insult someone you disagree with. I replied to that particular post. you made a knee-jerk reaction.Clearly you haven't read my contributions to this thread and are just giving a knee-jerk reaction. You don't appear to have very deep or well-thought-out opinions.
My point was...since you need a little explanation.....that these types of discussions are misplaced.
So is all this talk about changing every team nickname.And all your examples are silly.
I don't see how it is "politically correct" to go out of one's way to treat a group of people with respect. I thought old-fashioned values put a premium on that. How hard is it to go meet some people, shake their hand, and ask?
What makes think that these nicknames are meant to insult? Maybe they are use to keep the memory alive?
Shaking every hand is just plain impractical.
Uh...We do have the Saints and they have fans that do that in the stands....let's rename them too.Would it be OK if a team nicknamed itself the Messiahs and had a mascot with long brown hair and a beard who wore a rough tunic and had nail wounds through his hands and feet?
I always thought names like Braves, Indians, Warriors, were kinda generic.And all your examples are silly. Paul Brown named the team after himself. Dolphins aren't people. Chiefs is as generic a name as "Generals."
Like I said if you don't let a name insult you then that name becomes nothing but a bunch of letters. There are better things to do that to worry about team nicknames.
Now "Redskin", that's offensive!!!
I am offended.
Sincerely,
The Redskin Peach
And speaking of, What about all the hard working farmers out there! I'm sure the a offended by "Aggie"
SWCBonfire = Aggie by trade & association, so no, I am not offended.And speaking of, What about all the hard working farmers out there! I'm sure the a offended by "Aggie"
No they don't because I think in the grand scheme of things, they really couldn't care less (just for you S y)!
Well, in the grand scheme of things, having nicknames for sports teams used possibly in an inappropriate way rather pales in comparison to wholesale conquest and destruction of one's entire society and way of life, so I can understand why they don't get all that steamed about it.
No they don't because I think in the grand scheme of things, they really couldn't care less (just for you S y)!
If your whole family gets killed and your house gets burned down and your arms and legs get chopped off, you're probably not going to pay a whole lot of attention to the dog crapping on your lawn.
Pretty much every last one of us here enjoys our way of life at the expense of a tribesman who got killed or shoved out of the way. I don't know what much we can do about it. I wouldn't exist in the first place if immigrants from various European countries hadn't come to America and occupied lands that had been taken from one tribal nation or another. So I mean if I'm going to make res ution I pretty much have to kill myself and will all my property to a Caddo or something. I'm not going to do that.
But, you know, given all that I don't think it's asking too much to be polite to those ones who are left and ask before using their names.
If Myles brand really feels guilty about this, then he needs to relocate to Europe. Or better yet, commit suicide and will his estate to the Seminole tribe. Otherwise, this whole effort of his is just sanctimonious bull . How is the use of "Illini" in this context any less offensive than the name of the state Illinois in the first place? It's the same freaking word! To be consistent, shouldn't they be forced to call themselves the "University of Blank Urbana-Champaign?"
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