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To win a championship, Kobe needs a better supporting cast than LeBron. With the same supporting cast, LeBron's team would be much better - basically because LeBron is a far superior player at this point in time.
You know its funny how this whole thing has evolved.
Kobe haters wanna have it both ways, you see.
They like to say Kobe isn't able to win without help, but at the same time every time Lebron fails in the playoffs, they say its because he doesn't have Kobe's help.
Its the ultimate fanatic paradox.
s wanna have their cake and eat it too.
Either Lebron doesn't need Kobe's help to win a championship...which he clearly does....or Kobe having the help he does isn't a knock on him as a player, because every superstar needs other stars around to win in this league....
But nobody wants to acknowledge that....
They just keep spinning the same record....never realizing that its a track recorded in the studio of hypocrisy and contradiction....like Ice-T on Law & Order....
Wait til Lebron gets his own "Lakers" as all of you ask and pray for....and the "Lebron can't win without a great big-man", and "Lebron needs an allstar stacked team to win" chants start to rain down on your precious little hater heads....and suddenly, the bright line will shine down upon you, and all will realize that the path you've chosen....has been a false one....and like blind sheep at the helm of a false prophet, you've been led astray for all these long years....
Let it begin...this is only the beginning of your long-awaited awakening, and shedding of your burdened hater skin...let it begin....
To win a championship, Kobe needs a better supporting cast than LeBron. With the same supporting cast, LeBron's team would be much better - basically because LeBron is a far superior player at this point in time.
it's pretty simple. But lakerfan tries to make the argument complicated to confuse. "lebron can't play the triangle"
All evidence to the contrary.
If Bron didn't need a supporting cast as good as Kobe's.....he would have a championship right now....instead of falling two rounds, three rounds short....year, after year, after year....
But no matter....all will see in time....this is just the beginning....epiphanies take time, especially for those sheep who have wandered much too far out of the yard....
like if lebron wins 6 straight after he turns 28, u will be around to apologize daily ......
Both sides of the argument usually come out in extremes.
I'll say this. This season, LeBron probably had the most help he ever has had on his team. And the Cavs ownership and management did give him pieces to help him out and to help the team win.
But it's not just about LeBron having better help than he's ever had. His supporting cast is still not nearly as good as other elite team's supporting cast. Look at it.
LeBron's supporting cast: Mo Williams, old Shaq, Jamison, Varejao, Delonte, Anthony Parker
Now compare them to other stars in the league and their supporting casts.
Kobe's: Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Artest, Fisher, Shannon Brown
D12's: Rashard, VC, Jameer, Barnes, Pietrus, Gortat
Pierce's: Rondo, KG, Ray Allen, Perkins, Tony Allen, Rasheed, Baby
Melo's: Billups, Nene, JR Smith, K-Mart, Lawson, Birdman
Dirk's: Kidd, Marion, Butler, Haywood, Terry
Duncan's: Ginobili, Parker, RJ, Hill, Dice, Blair
You can argue which supporting cast is better than the other among those, but I personally would take any of those supporting casts over the one in Cleveland around LeBron.
Now, the supporting cast isn't the only reason why the Cavs failed against Boston. It doesn't take away full blame from LeBron. LeBron still deserves plenty. That's not what I'm saying. I just think just because LeBron has had the most help this year, it doesn't mean it was good enough. His supporting cast still stinks.
I just think each side of the argument takes it to the extreme.
Please, you s have discounted everybody save Gasol of Kobe's supporting cast. And you even rode Gasol's ass until we lucked out and got the Magic/sans Nelson.
LOL this ... better REGULAR season player, better athlete ...better player to build a future around ALL YES ...
Better all-around player and winner? ...no.
Better clutch player? ...no.
More rings? No
Better chance at 6 rings? No
Lebron is a GReAT talent Kobe is STILL the better player unless winning it all doesnt matter ...
Kobe is the better defender ...
Kobe is the better shooter ...
Kobe has a better post game ...
Kobe has better midrange game ...
Kobe is better at FT's even with a jacked up finger
Lebron is the better passer ...
Lebron is better at driving to the hole and finishing ...
Lebron the Better rebounder and shot blocker
Lebron is the better dunker
Kobe Bryant still is the better all around player at ACTUALLY playing the game ...but Lebron is more dominant and dynamic ...yet still Kobe is better ...
From Avery johnson on mike & mike: (paraprasing)
"Lebron maybe the 2 time MVP ... but kobe is the real MVP until he retires. Like MJ kobe has the mid range game, the pull up jumpers that Lebron needs to work on this off-season. Teams like the Celts and Magic will pack the paint and dare him to beat them from outside. You could not do that with MJ or kobe."
kobe defenders have told you that for 3 seasons - Lebron's jumper is broke and needs to be fixed .... yes he has gotten better at shooting but not enough that you wouldnt dare him to shoot all day. you dont do that with Kobe. in fact, with his diminishing hops and injured finger you would prefer he drives ...
Last edited by Killakobe81; 05-14-2010 at 11:21 AM.
I don't think you missed the point of the thread. I think you got it, youse a wise fella, you just had other thoughts you wanted to convey in your post.
But i'm going to reiterate anyway.
This was about the detractors views on Kobe and how it relates to Lebron. I think we can all agree now Lebrons supporting cast isn't quite as good as others in the league, even if the others are somewhat overrated. Which they are.
But thats the point. I'm not trying to blame Lebron for anything. But he keeps losing in the 2nd, 3rd round because he doesn't have the same help a few other players in the league do....and yet, those other players are maligned for having the help that these same detractors are unconsciously admitting Lebron himself needs, and praying that he someday gets it himself. Which would put him in the same boat - unable to win without a great team around him. The same ing boat he's in now.
But s wanna act like he's already going on 2-3 championships by himself?
Wheredeydodatat?
Some serious bull going on.
Bron will get his chips. He's too good not to. But when he does, he'll have a stacked ass team, because thats what you need to win in a league with the Orlando's, and Los Angeles's, and Boston's. And then everyone will realize how ing stupid they've sounded all these years.
That's absolutely fair. And I think it's crazy when people bash Kobe because he has some good teammates. Always have. Like I said, people take their opinions and biases to extremes.
The point is that LeBron needs less help than anyone else.
----
I think people wildly overrated this years Cavs team because of
- big names and reputations
- volume scorers
I'd take the Cavs supporting cast in 2007 over this one every day and twice on Sunday.
A good back bone wouldn't hurt.
i dont care anymore....15 years from now, it'll all about who has more rings anyways.
If Isaiah had Magics team and vice versa, how many rings would they both have? Its a useless arguement cuz other factors lead to different results.
Did anyone think Lebron was gonna eliminated in the 2nd round this year? Of course not...but it happened.
A point that might have been valid if they won the le this year...instead of getting curbstomped out of the 2nd round by a team of geriatrics.
Give the Cavs another great player, which Lebron NEEDS....and all the same you clowns are saying about Kobe....everyone will be saying about Bron.
Full circle.
Why?
That doesn't make any sense at all.
1) LeBron needs some help, more than what he had this year.
2) LeBron needs less help than anyone else.
Both these sentences are true.
i agree with Jam and Picc here ...
The point is people say Lebron would do great things with the Lakers and i agree.
But think back to this debate. Many on this forum posted Lebron is better BECAUSE he scores more, has more assists, better PER ...WHATEVER.
however you cant take the well lebron is better because he has the stats that SAY so argument and then follow that up with he DOES NOT have enough help... that is flawed logic.
If Lebron had more help and allowed that help to control the ball more ... (say he had rondo or rose) his stats points assists especially would go down but so would his TO's his scoring may (or may not) go down but he would WIN more ...
So which is it? Is Lebron better because he has better stats with less help?
Or is it a hypothetical/theoretical that Lebron would do better with the same cast? If so you have to throw out those precious stats
...Kobe had (Pre-Pau) even less support than Lebron.
Many are right when they say Lebron pushed his team futher in a weak ass Eastern conference ...his performance against the pistons in the ECF was amazing as his choke this year was galling.
I freely Lebron at this stage of his career does a LOT more things better than kobe. He is a better rebounder, dunker, driver, passer and shotblocker. all things i value a great deal.
But Kobe is the better "pure" scorer
better mid-range shooter
better post player
better defender (when focused)
and better clutch player
this is NOT a knock on Lebron I like the guy just feel he has been crowned prematurely. now some of the same morons who did it are talking about Lebron ...or the idiot haters are using the if lebron was on the Lakers to defend or deflect criticism.
I know mo williams sucks and Shaq is old and Brown is an idiot.
I SAID ALL OFTHAT WHEN MANY HER WERE SAYING THAT THIS WAS the CAVS year and they would "curbstomp' the Lakers inthe Finals ...but you guys MISTEKENLY believed Lebron the King would make up for those OBVIOUS defeciencies ...but he could not.
dont get me wrong I did think Cavs would beat Boston ...but i did not think it would be easy but I did think the Magic and Lakers were better than the Cavs ...and i was right.
in summation I have no problem with people saying Lebron is better (at this point in both careers) in fact i have said that on here a dozen times ...
I just insisted he needs a le to validate it. and if he got it I promised to ackowledge him as such when he won. But he failed.
Without the ring, the MVP's are hollow ...the stats empty. Dirk has an MVP nash has 2 back2back like LBJ ...Durant and chris Paul have great stats ...who gives a Fantasy basketball players?
But what they DONT have? A ring. without you CAN NOT be considered the best. You just can't.
PS- i chose Lebron withthe first pick in my fantasy draft ...no regrets he Mayo, josh smith and Bogut led me to a le.
But if I wanted someone to lead my NBA team to a le I take kobe still ...
Last edited by Killakobe81; 05-14-2010 at 11:52 AM.
I do enjoy the bumping potential Lakersfan are leaving in the board these last few days though. Too bad they'll just disappear once things get rough for them.
says the who joined 3 months after Boston wins a championship in 2008.
I stopped reading at the s wanna have their cake and eat it too. What's Kimbo Slice got to do with this?
1. If he had more help than he had this year, he might still not have got past the Celtics, or Orlando, or the Lakers/Suns. He got knocked out in the SECOND ROUND.
2. If the Cavs had more help than they had this year, they would have as much or more than the other teams. Guess what - LEBRON HAD A GOOD ING TEAM.
Hey, Mo, you've been called.
killa,
I don't care about people saying Bron is better than Kobe. I think he is to.
Its just the bull about Kobe needing help thats....some bull . Bron needs the same help. If he didn't, he wouldn't be getting demolished in the 2nd, 3rd round ever year.
All that "Kobe needs an allstar big" looks stupid when Cavs fans and Kobe haters are praying to their God, or Hindu, or Allah, or whoever, that Bron gets the same thing because he can't do without.
Just like 99% of the superstars in the history of the league have needed help. The newflash is coming quick - it ain't just Kobe.
lakers still win 50 games without kobe
You won 50 games without Kobe.
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