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Even in a perfect system for Pau it is debatable if he is better than Dirk. That right there shows you something.
Give Dirk a Kobe level player on the Mavs and things are nearly as close imo.
Even in a perfect system for Pau it is debatable if he is better than Dirk. That right there shows you something.
Give Dirk a Kobe level player on the Mavs and things are nearly as close imo.
Thank god we don't have Bill Walton announcing the games anymore. He would of been having a basketball orgasm over Gasol's play. "What a master, what a mind"
Are you re ed? He's a C playing PF; how hard is that to understand? I know you're going to bring up Duncan now. But, even when Duncan played at PF primarily, he was guarded by the opposition's best big man a lot of the time. Teams can't do that with Gasol a lot because Bynum is so big, he has to be accounted for a lot of times by the opposition's best big.
He's being guarded by 6-9 PF's because he starts at PF and teams can't afford (generally) to put those already undersized players against Bynum, who's not only at least as tall as Gasol, but much stronger. Gasol can use his length against them; Bynum can use his length AND strength.
Never said he played terribly; I said he routinely has choked in the clutch in his career. He clearly get's discouraged when he get's knocked around, a la Carter.
When you're trying to claim someone is as great as people are making Gasol out to be right now, you damn sure better be able to carry a team; he never has been.
Yeah, I did have to go there, because it's true. Every time a white guy can play in this league, he becomes overrated. You don't think white guys covering the game don't deep down love seeing a white guy succeed? I'm not saying they're racists, it's just human nature.
That's not at all what makes a player better. Ginobili may have been playing better than Bryant, but I'm not stupid enough to think he's better than him. The same thing applies to Gasol and Duncan. Stats don't tell everything, but look back at the season they just had and tell me it's so preposterous to think Duncan is still better. It's just not popular opinion anymore.
Yeah, because the Spurs haven't gotten him proper help, which means he's playing far too arduous minutes for a player his age and with the amount of mileage he's ac ulated.
2010-2011... stay tuned
Also Dirk's 31... Pau's 29. Dirk's prime years were probably from 05-07. So Pau's absolute best is only arguable against Dirk's slightly past prime years. Pau's best v Dirk's best isn't even a debate for those who have a clue.
The rebounding difference between the two was only significant this year when Dirk was 31.
Anyway, Pau spends 2/3 of his PT at the C position. It's more appropriate to compare him to Dwight Howard, Andrew Bogut, and Tim Duncan than Dirk anyway.
Mike Miller, James Posey, Bonzi Wells, Shane Battier, and Jason Williams back then were not bad players at all.
In 2004-05
Miller: 13 ppg
Posey: 12 ppg
Wells: 12 ppg
Williams: 10 ppg
Battier: 10 ppg
For Dallas
Finley: 15 ppg
Terry: 13 ppg
Howard: 12 ppg
Harris: 5 ppg
Was Dallas really that much better?
Thank god we don't have Bill Walton announcing the games anymore. He would of been having a basketball orgasm over Gasol's play. "What a master, what a mind"
Walton was the man. Entertaining, hilarious. Not the cookie cutter types of today, forcing out their repe ive sayings (Jackson) or nagging viewers to death (Van Gundy).
You're right though, he'd go nuts over Gasol. A tall, skinny, mop headed white guy with a high skill level/IQ? He's probably his current favorite player. I know he used to love Nash and Duncan.
Yes Dallas was much better. But those Memphis teams were deep. full of experienced vets and very well coached.
These 2 European big men have transcended today's NBA landscape.
You can't go wrong with either of them.
Dirk Nowitzki, just a magician with the ball. So fundamental, so precise, is there anything this man can't do?
And then on the flip side how about Pau Gasol? The eloquence he displays on the court is just unmatched. His footwork is just picturesque like a jedi on the court. So brilliant playing along with the Black Mamba.
Well except for the fact that Gasol shoots significantly better, gets more assists, plays more minutes, is a better offensive rebounder, and is playing at a much higher level than Duncan in the POs, yes, by every statistical measure, Duncan outplayed Gasol this season.
Which he never did
No he wasn't. That hasn't happened since Russell guarded Wilt.he was guarded by the opposition's best big man a lot of the time.
Yes they can.Teams can't do that with Gasol a lot because Bynum is so big
Bull .he has to be accounted for a lot of times by the opposition's best big.
Yes you are.I'm not saying they're racists
You also said Duncan would outduel Gasol, which hasn't happened in about 4 years. At some point "just playing worse" does become "just is worse."but look back at the season they just had and tell me it's so preposterous to think Duncan is still better.
And since when is Mike Fratello a good coach? He's a frittering disciplinarian, almost a clone of Rick Carlisle.
The Grizzlies had ONE player that season that could create his own shot, Jason Williams, which is sad..everybody else on the team was assisted on 60-65% or more of their individual offense..
The Mavs had 4 players other than Dirk that were less than 60%, 3 of them less than 50%, all able to create their own shots..Terry, Harris, Howard and Stackhouse..
The Grizzlies had a much more team-oriented system, part of it due to the system, part of it due to the fact that they had no other players that could create their own shots..
Great post Harlem.
did you watch the game between the Lakers and Spurs when Hill got injured? Guess what, Duncan decided to go 2004 on Gasol during that game.
If anything those Gasol Memphis teams overachieved big time and had no business being in the playoffs. I'll take Finley, Howard, Terry, and stackhouse over what Gasol had in Memphis. All four of Dirks teammates could go for 20+ points, while only Bonzi was the only legit threat Gasol had that could go for 20+.
Finally something I can agree with. Pau is the ultimate #2 guy. He's like a Pippen. He's not a guy who who is an alpha dog or who is ever going to win an NBA championship as the #1 guy. Then again Dirk might not ever be that guy either, but Dirk is more naturally a lead player than Pau is.
Duncan at his best was better than what we have seen from Pau in his career, but as of right now Pau has shown in these playoffs he has officially passed Duncan.
Last edited by namlook; 05-19-2010 at 11:49 PM.
Yeh just wait until he has to play Duncan. He's in for a cheeky awakening I dae believe. That's if yeh 're jammy dooze to get the chance. Those ruddy poofs are a waste of sperm and egg.
Toodle pip!
Yeh just wait until he has to play Duncan. He's in for a cheeky awakening I dae believe. That's if yeh 're jammy dooze to get the chance. Those ruddy poofs are a waste of sperm and egg.
Toodle pip!
Culburn, this troll sucks.
Retire it.
Yeah, he did. Are you referring to the fact that on offense he always played in the low post, even with Robinson around? He still played PF defensively.
Yeah, he was. Because Robinson was no longer a dominant force, a lot of the time Duncan was being guarded by the opposition's best defensive big man.
No, they can't. Do you even watch games? The Suns are doing it by putting Lopez on Gasol, but a lot of the time teams have to put their C on Bynum, which frees up Gasol to play against 6-9 guys; he's 7-1. That's a huge advantage.
No, I'm not saying they're racists. Why would you tell me what I'm doing?
4 years? You're clearly not watching the games, just another clown who's opinion is formulated based off of what others say. If Duncan noticeably drops another level next season, then Gasol will be better. But the overall body of work from Duncan this season, I'd still take it over Gasol and I don't give a who agrees with it, unlike you.
SomeCallMeTim, Gasol out did Duncan in certain categories because Jackson runs his key players into the ground. Duncan was more efficient, though.
What does any of this have to do with what you originally wrote - that "There is no such thing as a 7-1 PF, therefore he's a C." Your statement makes no sense. Gasol does everything PFs are supposed to do these days - he guards opposing PFs, he rebounds, he blocks shots, he plays on the block and he will hit 18 foot jumpers. It doesn't matter if he's 6-4 like Blair or 7-1 as he's listed. He can and does play a lot of minutes at the PF position.
And? KG was a "choker" for most of his career. Pierce had never won anything and therefore was considered by many to be somehow deficient. 2008 changed all that and proved that neither was true. Same thing happened for Gasol in 2009. He played great on the way to a le.Never said he played terribly; I said he routinely has choked in the clutch in his career. He clearly get's discouraged when he get's knocked around, a la Carter.
Who's making him out to be anything other than one of the best big guys in the league right now? At their peaks, TD and KG are both better than Pau, but those days are past. Howard is a better player IMO but has some serious flaws in his game that can cause major problems when they're exploited by teams in the POs.When you're trying to claim someone is as great as people are making Gasol out to be right now, you damn sure better be able to carry a team; he never has been.
Please. Gasol doesn't get a quarter of the attention, fame, and credit as Kobe among most fans. Gasol deserves at least as much credit as Kobe for the team's success... two straight Finals, 2 wins away from a third straight... and you think this guy's "overrated"?Yeah, I did have to go there, because it's true. Every time a white guy can play in this league, he becomes overrated. You don't think white guys covering the game don't deep down love seeing a white guy succeed? I'm not saying they're racists, it's just human nature.
Why? For long stretches in his career, Ginobili has been a better player than Kobe. Don't sell Manu short, when healthy, he is an incredibly productive player.That's not at all what makes a player better. Ginobili may have been playing better than Bryant, but I'm not stupid enough to think he's better than him.
OK, you're making the assertion here, how are you backing it up? What in Duncan's stats indicates that he's the better player?The same thing applies to Gasol and Duncan. Stats don't tell everything, but look back at the season they just had and tell me it's so preposterous to think Duncan is still better. It's just not popular opinion anymore.
Come on, the guy is playing fewer than 32 MPG these days, what do you want him playing, 20 minutes per night?Yeah, because the Spurs haven't gotten him proper help, which means he's playing far too arduous minutes for a player his age and with the amount of mileage he's ac ulated.
To say that 'this system' favors Pau is asinine. The system is only as good as the talent to put it in place. Pau also played an inside-out game in Memphis, the difference is that he didn't have one of the league's top players (Kobe) roaming the perimeter and two towers (Odom/Bynum) next to him in the paint commanding way too much attention.
Those are all guys you must absolutely put a guy on and most of the time send help too.
This Lakers team is stacked and Pau is simply doing a great job of exploiting that fact. You also have to give him credit because unlike Bynum, he understands the talent that's around him and is a willing passer.
That said, you give Dirk two 7 footers as versatile as Bynum/Odom and a top 5 perimeter player in the league like Kobe/Lebron/Wade and all of a sudden the Mavs 'system' will look incredibly good too.
Lets not make a rash decision based on Pau owning Amare.
Lets see how he does against Boston.
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