Has Kobe Eclipsed Shaq's legacy?

[Pelicans78]

lol @ singlehandedly. i'm sure he was winning alot with Eddie Jones, Nick Van Excel etc before Bryant started getting major minutes.

Lakers winning coincided with Phil Jackson. They were a dysfunctional team getting swept every year before Jackson took over as coach.

[JamStone]

Shaq in 2002 Finals - 36.3 points, 12.3 rebounds and 2.75 blocks. No.

The truth about Kobe's is somewhere in the middle. He wasn't a bench warmer like some Kobe haters want you to believe, nor was he the MJ #1 option like some delusional Laker homers try to argue. Shaq was a 1 and Kobe was a 1.5 during their run.

Anyways to answer the question of the OP, Kobe will very clearly eclipse Shaq with a win this year, if he hasn't already and will only be behind Magic.

I tend to agree with that. For as great as Kareem was, several of his later les with the Lakers was essentially as a role player, not only after Magic but often after Worthy as well. Interestingly, Kareem wasn't even a double digit rebounder (regular season or playoffs) for his final 8 seasons with the Lakers, including his final four championship runs with the Lakers, and despite still playing 32+ mpg for all but two of those seasons. Kareem has a more storied career obviously, but I think as a Laker, Kobe might already rank slightly above him now, leaving him only behind Magic.

Two more les gets him one ahead of Magic. If that happens and perhaps one more league MVP (after this season if the Lakers win it and with how LeBron exited, Kobe might be the favorite next year even if he doesn't put up better numbers), I think he'll have a pretty strong argument as the greatest Laker ever. But those are still plenty of "ifs" before we can start making the argument.

[Ashy Larry]

no son that's not true. Kobe is one of the best role players of all time. its just downright ignorant and stupid to list him as one of the best players of all time though. top 50-75? yea ... but he is absolutely nowhere near the top.

you have to be near the top when you are considered by many and most the second greatest SG of all time. Name another one who's better .......

[Ashy Larry]

As far as Bean being the greatest Laker, this championship can also break his back as well.

Jerry West ..... smoked by the Celtics during the 60s

Magic Johnson ...... 2-1 versus the C's in the 80's and easily could have been 3-0
- Worthy's brutal pass overshadowed a great game by him.
- up five points and possession of the ball in game 4 with 59 secs. on the clock

Kobe Bryant ..... 0-1 versus the C's in the finals. Dude needs to square his record.

[mogrovejo]

A guy with 1 MVP and 1 le as the first option for his team (and a stacked one in the 30 teams era)?

Hmmm... no. Not even close.

[TheManFromAcme]

Kobe may very well eclipse Shaq's legacy as a Laker when Shaq was laker but that's about it at least in my opinion. No way Kobe eclipses Magic, no way. Kobe is popular with the young uns in here. Magic on the other is popular with those who lived, breathed, ate "Showtime" Laker basketball like myself hence why Kobe isn't that much of a big deal to me as he is with others in here. It's a generational thing.

When Kobe gets a bigger statue in front of Staples, then maybe we can talk.

[Capt Bringdown]

I think Magic's not only the greatest Laker ever, but probably the greatest NBA player ever as well. Look at who he beat, it doesn't compare to the stiffs Jordan ran over in the 90's. Magic was the man, and Showtime era Lakers would have destroyed any and all present-day comers, including Kobe & Shaq, Kobe and Gasol and yes, even Tim Duncan and co.

[TheManFromAcme]

I think Magic's not only the greatest Laker ever, but probably the greatest NBA player ever as well. Look at who he beat, it doesn't compare to the stiffs Jordan ran over in the 90's. Magic was the man, and Showtime era Lakers would have destroyed any and all present-day comers, including Kobe & Shaq, Kobe and Gasol and yes, even Tim Duncan and co.

Well put CB....

Magic is INCREDIBLY popular with the older Hemisfair-days Spurs fan.

[TDMVPDPOY]

how me ass taste like kobe

[TampaDude]

I think Magic's not only the greatest Laker ever, but probably the greatest NBA player ever as well. Look at who he beat, it doesn't compare to the stiffs Jordan ran over in the 90's. Magic was the man, and Showtime era Lakers would have destroyed any and all present-day comers, including Kobe & Shaq, Kobe and Gasol and yes, even Tim Duncan and co.

+1 The Showtime Lakers were awesome. I put Magic right up there with Jordan, TBH.

As far as Kobe is concerned, he put up some great #s in the WCF, but the real test is coming up against Boston. I know Kobe still has a bitter taste in his mouth from 2008, and wants payback. He may very well get it...we'll see.

[ginobili's bald spot]

how me ass taste like kobe

GTFO you fetish sicko.

[DAF86]

In terms of stats and fan recognition yes, but Shaq in his prime >>> Kobe at any point. Jordan is the only player that I've seen that was more dominant than Shaq.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

If Kobe wins a championship this year, I put him 3rd all time behind Jordan and Kareem. If he wins another one next year, I put him 2nd all time.

[JamStone]

While I agree that Magic beat better teams, beat a lot of championship teams, and I do believe Jordan didn't have as great a compe ion as in the 80s until those Lakers, Boston, Detroit teams got old, and while I'm as big a Michael Jordan hater as there is on these boards, I won't sell the guy short. Especially if you look at teams like the Stockton-Malone Jazz or even the one year Phoenix got there, or even the Blazers, Michael Jordan is the very reason they didn't win at least one championship. Jordan's compe ion would have been viewed differently had one or two of those teams at least one le. Jordan prevented that from happening.

Jordan >>>>> Magic

And I was a huge Magic fan growing up and admitted Jordan hater.

As far as Kobe goes and having only one le as the go to guy, let's not misrepresent history. For at least two of those championships, arguably three, Magic wasn't the "number one option" despite being the engine of the team. I would at least give Kobe partial no. 1 status for the 2002 le. And if the Lakers win another one this year, it's his third. Enough of the Kobe discredit with claims that Pau is the main guy. That is beyond reason. Pau is a huge piece for the Lakers, but Kobe is still the reason the Lakers win games and won last year and have a chance to win this year.

[diego]

a month ago people were saying he was done, now he has a good series and people are calling him the best laker of all time?

first, let the lakers beat the celtics in the finals (shaq has already lost more finals than kobe has, he isnt breaking new ground there). second, let kobe be the determining factor (its likely that IF the lakers win, it will be because their frontcourt outplayed the celtics frontcourt, not because their backcourt outplays the C's backcourt). and even then, he'll still have less league MVP or finals MVPs than icons like kareem and magic.



how about we put it the other way around- if kobe loses, is he the biggest disappointment of all time? after all, the only finals he won as 1st option was against a young team with poor depth, whose superstar's only claim to fame is a DPOY award and a slam dunk championship, and that likely would have been eliminated before the finals if the celtics had been healthy... so if the celts win and pierce gets another finals mvp, should we be talking about the celtics lost 3peat, and pierce eclipsing every celtic this side of bird and russel? please...

[baseline bum]

A guy with 1 MVP and 1 le as the first option for his team (and a stacked one in the 30 teams era)?

Hmmm... no. Not even close.

Seems like most people here are conditioning on whether he wins this le, so it'd be 2 rings as the #1 option.

[mogrovejo]

Seems like most people here are conditioning on whether he wins this le, so it'd be 2 rings as the #1 option.

Yeah, still not close. Lacks the extended dominance as the best player in the league.

[SevenX]

Shaq in 2002 Finals - 36.3 points, 12.3 rebounds and 2.75 blocks. No.

The truth about Kobe's is somewhere in the middle. He wasn't a bench warmer like some Kobe haters want you to believe, nor was he the MJ #1 option like some delusional Laker homers try to argue. Shaq was a 1 and Kobe was a 1.5 during their run.

Anyways to answer the question of the OP, Kobe will very clearly eclipse Shaq with a win this year, if he hasn't already and will only be behind Magic.

Doesn't matter what Shaq put up. Kobe still has the stats of a 1st option so he deserves credit for 2 rings. Put anyone in Kobe's place with their finals performance in 2002 and they also won't get a finals mvp. Shaq was just that good.

Kobe put up better stats in 2002 than in 2009 yet he only gets credit for 2009. It's really ing stupid. And just because he also deserves credit for 2002 (making him have 2 rings as 1st option importance) doesn't mean he's better than Shaq. Why must it be one or the other? Truth is in 2002, both Shaq and Kobe deserve equal credit for their performances. I won't argue for 2000 and 2001 since Shaq clearly had the edge.

[baseline bum]

Yeah, still not close. Lacks the extended dominance as the best player in the league.

You could say Kareem was the best player a lot the early 80s, Bird the best player a lot of the mid 80s, and Jordan the best of the late 80s, thus making Magic's reign as the best player in the league pretty short too.

[Bob Lanier]

Kareem was the best player in the NBA from 1969 to 1981, but I think Moses Malone deserved at least one MVP in the early '80s. Moreover, I don't think Jordan was the best player in the league until he stopped just chucking in '88 or so. Johnson and Bird were equally good in the middle of the decade.

As for the 2000s and 2010s... well, there really has not been a year when Bryant was even arguably the indisputable best player in the game.

[21_Blessings]

Kareem was the best player in the NBA from 1969 to 1981,

This doesn't add up with what you said below. There were a handful of players playing during those years that had argument for best player at one time or another.

As for the 2000s and 2010s... well, there really has not been a year when Bryant was even arguably the indisputable best player in the game.

Dumb.

[hitmanyr2k]

I think Magic's not only the greatest Laker ever, but probably the greatest NBA player ever as well. Look at who he beat, it doesn't compare to the stiffs Jordan ran over in the 90's. Magic was the man, and Showtime era Lakers would have destroyed any and all present-day comers, including Kobe & Shaq, Kobe and Gasol and yes, even Tim Duncan and co.

Stiffs? Are you kidding me? The Showtime Lakers had a cupcake Western Conference they beat up on every year before they made it to the Finals. , the '87 Lakers team had to beat a sub-.500 team and then two .500 teams to get to the Finals. In the 80's the Celtics were in the harder conference BY FAR with the Bucks, Sixers, and then Pistons to contend with.

80's West = 2000-2003 East.

[Ghazi]

Kobe has more legitimate rings than Shaq.

[21_Blessings]

Shaq will be forever stained for not being able to close a game. When a 21 year old is the goto guy down the stretch when you're in your prime then you clearly have gaping flaw in your basketball game. Hakeem had it. Shaq didn't.

Then there is defense. Shaq could have been one of the greatest defenders ever. But he wasn't. Kobe has always been the better two-way player.

[mogrovejo]

To me Bird and Magic were the best players in the league between 1982 and 1989. Some years Bird was better, others it was Magic.

Kobe was a bit unlucky because in those years he could have claimed the throne before LeBron's emergence guys like Garnett and Wade had better seasons than him. I think Kobe's best years were between 2003 and 2007 and even in his peak he wasn't clearly above a lot of other MVP contenders.