An Objective Look at Our Offseason

[Nikos]

I am saying you have been ing about everything.

I dont even care what it is, but you have been ing.

If anyone has been whining its you.

Subtractions:
Drob: we lose D, alot of it
Speedy: we lose a great backup
Others: I dont care about

Additions:
Horry: we add a guy who still can hit clutch shots, he will always be a threat because of his BIG shot REP
Turkoglu: This guy isn't worse than SJax talent wise and eventually might even be a better fit for this team. Hes waiting to break out. Even several die hard KINGS fans are concerned that he might come back and BITE HIS OLD TEAM in the but. Even despite the fact that you say HEDO sucked behind Jim Jackson -- yet die hard fans who know this fact still are concerned. Now why is that? Could it be that Turk actually has talent?
Rasho: solid pickup, worse on D than Drob obviously but is more reliable on O and is one of the better center fits for this team.
Mercer: maybe we use him as trade bait for backup PG? Either way the guy has talent as well -- he was once a 19ppg scorer and hes not exactly chopped liver.


Also we havent lost Sjax yet -- and if we did than oh well. He was a clutch shooter but his agent screwed things up for him. Turkoglu is still a very good replacement and might even be a better fit for this team. His upside could be higher than you think.

Lastly, Ghost don't change the subject and start laughing that I mentioned the HOLTING PATTERN -- I merely said that to make a point that most of your posts are whining and sound ridiculous which is why I mentioned it -- not because of its relavance (or lack of in this case) to the additions to our team this year.

[Spurminator]

You can honestly look at who we're losing and who we're getting and say we haven't missed a beat?

I wouldn't say we've missed a beat. We haven't made some huge leap as far as adding talent, but it's not like we've digressed.

Rasho's offense will likely make up for what we lose defensively without DRob. Dave, Pop bless him, was an offensive liability the last two years. With Rasho, we no longer have two starters on the floor who can't score.
And since most of David's shots were 12-footers from the top or dunks, why not get the best shooting center available?

Hedo will surprise a lot of people. He may not be your prototypical "balla" but he's fearless, aggressive, and can score from anywhere. Though a bit slower, he's got all of the skills Jackson had and then some.

Horry gives us a player who can strip the ball and draw offensive fouls with the best of them, while playing any of the three low positions if needed. Perfect 8-10 mpg player for this team.

Mercer is gravy. In a perfect world, I'd like to see him shipped out for a backup PG. But we could always give Kerr 5-7 minutes a game and try Manu at the point for the remaining 5-7 minutes that Parker is out.

Mengke and Smitty... considering their contributions last year, I see their loss as marginal at worst.

[Temple Of The Dog]

you know... i still don't really understand signing horry. i suppose it gives us great depth and an easy contract situation. (especially for next season) -- he may come in handy (just in time for the playoffs)

[Spurminator]

I'd be willing to give Horry 1.5 million of his contract just to keep him out of LA.

[Ghost Writer]

NCali, your posts were interesting and I took no objection to them.

Nikos needs a little course correcting, but eventually she came around with a solid, if not unbiased, breakdown of the additions and subtractions this offseason.

Temple, while we grossly overpaid for Horry, he gives us what Ferry did, plus stronger interior defense.

I need to see who we sign for backup point before I make my final judgment, but so far, we're not improved dramatically over last season.

I see a bunch of slight upgrades that could equal a composite overall improvement.

Mercer > Smith
Horry > Ferry
Turkoglu = Jackson
Backup Point Guard < Claxton
Nesterovic = Robinson

[Temple Of The Dog]

Temple, while we grossly overpaid for Horry, he gives us what Ferry did, plus stronger interior defense.

well i said a combination of ferry and s.smith... but thats not the point... the point is, we're not really going to use him. i see the playing time pecking order by position like this:

5 nesterovic/duncan/willis
4 duncan/malik/horry
3 bowen/hedo/horry
2 manu/hedo/mercer/kerr
1 parker/backup?/kerr

thats deep... very deep...

[Spurminator]

Well, some of us never use our car insurance, but we don't go buying it out of the Thrifty Nickel.

[Temple Of The Dog]

Well, some of us never use our car insurance, but we don't go buying it out of the Thrifty Nickel.

yeah well where do you think you're gonna get your backup point guard from... walmart? we gave the dude too much... but screw it. its a deep roster.

[Marcus Bryant]

I like how all of a sudden Hedo is crap. Obviously if you think that is the case you have to start a thread like this.

[Uncle Donnie]

We probably got slightly better but at this point it's certainly nothing to jump up and down about.

Don't underestimate what David brought defensively. Rasho won't match what David contributed as far as the team defense and he sure won't match DRob's defense man-to-man. Don't expect us to play Rasho vs. Shaq one on one anytime soon. I'll give Rasho an edge offensively over Dave of last year, but that's not the improvement it's been made out to be. David still shot a high % last year, he just wasn't a major part of the offense. How much will things change with Rasho?

Hedo vs. Jax is a wash at best. Hedo is more dependable but Jax is more clutch and plays better defense. I think I'd go with Jax though if given a choice. Really the only sure positive I see in losing Jackson is that it pretty much guarantees that Manu will start next season.

Horry will give us more than Ferry. Mercer is a wildcard but I'm definitely not expecting much there, in fact he'll probably be traded. Brown will probably spend most of his time on the bench or IR.

[Marcus Bryant]

I think some here are underestimating Hedo's game. It's not like he was playing behind anyone besides an All-Star in Sacto. He did a good job in relief of Webber even. He's all of 24. Given the minutes he has the ability to produce and improve the Spurs' rebounding and scoring at the 3.

[T Park Num 9]

How do Ron Mercer and Hedo Turkoglu go from good players to crap or bad players????


I dont understand how them getting these players make them crap.

Makes no sense.

[NCaliSpurs]

In Ghost's defense, the credible David Aldridge thinks the Spurs are worse than they were last year as of right now. However, he thinks that as the new players are integrated they will be better than they were last year.

More talent, less chemistry.

[MI21]

Ghost, the only thing I worry about A LOT is Rasho's D.

David anchored this team and will be sorely missed, especailly on the defensive end. I am extremely wary of Rasho -- so for that reason, I'm not sure the additions outweigh the subtractions either.

It's still a "maybe" for me.

Basically my thoughts

Also, I dont like losing Jackson at all.

[travis2]

You can honestly look at who we're losing and who we're getting and say we haven't missed a beat?

I see a bunch of slight upgrades that could equal a composite overall improvement.

Let us know when you've made up your mind...

[Ghost Writer]

travis, you dope. What don't you understand?

When I look at the team, I see mostly slight upgrades with a couple dropoffs on paper. That doesn't overwhelmingly convince me that we're better yet. Read the entire posts before trying to come off as a smart @ss, stunod.

"In Ghost's defense, the credible David Aldridge thinks the Spurs are worse than they were last year as of right now. However, he thinks that as the new players are integrated they will be better than they were last year.

More talent, less chemistry." — NCali

Exactly.

Alderige also mentioned that losing Robinson's D will hurt us, something that a lot of people sweep under the carpet. Shaq said that he's happy there's no more TWin Towers. Having two 7-foot shot blocking defenders defined SPURS BASKETBALL over the past five-plus years more than people want to let on.

I think that the moderate upgrades poisition for position will eventually equate to a better overall product.

I think that Popovich is going to tinker for the first 4 months of the season to see what players separate themselves from the rest and whittle it down to a 9-man regular rotation.

Who we get at backup PG will make all the difference.

[Marcus Bryant]

Turkoglu is more than a slight upgrade. I saw that interview with Aldridge and he said once the summer is over and the Spurs are done he thinks they will have improved. But go ahead and underestimate Turkoglu all you want. Eventually you'll change your mind and then you will be telling us you were the only one who thought he would be any good.

[Ghost Writer]

Um, you have a whole thread to satisfy your Turkoglu fetish. Until Sacramento's 10th man proves he can perform at our former starting SG's level (Jackson), I consider him a minor upgrade based on unrealized potential alone.

Please feel free to comment on the additions and subtractions for the Spurs so far.

[travis2]

As usual, when you are called on an inconsistency, you have to resort to name-calling and other ad hominem attacks instead of debating.

"Missed a beat" = regressed

"slight upgrades" != regressed

It's as simple as that.

Next time try it without the name calling.

[Ghost Writer]

Read the thread, dipsh1t. You're a real piece of work.

Your perception of my words are offbase, per usual.

I explained my POV thoroughly in several posts.

I even broke it down for you again.

Third time (slowly):

Robinson's departure will hurt us defensively. We still need to see who replaces Claxton.

All the other acquisitions are either equal to or better than the departures.

Add that up and it is not clear yet that we are a definitely better team.,

Try thinking a little, travis. Bury the hate and post a take.

You still haven't taken a stand, pissant. Oh wait — you think the Spurs are super-duper now. Nevermind.

[travis2]

Bury the hate and post a take.

Take a good look in the mirror, sucker...

I've done nothing but kick your ass since you showed up, lightweight. And all you've ever done is toss insults without any substance.

Your POV changes with the winds...and the whipsaw effects of your obvious drug addiction.

You don't know a damn thing about my POV because you've never bothered to read anything. Merely spout.

Crawl back into your hole with the rest of the slime.

[Ghost Writer]

Still waiting for you to take a stand on the offseason.

travis, you are a nobody as far as I am concerned. At least Marcus backs his counterpoints with substance. You're just an annoyance.

Please go back and read what I wrote and tell me what you take issue with.

I can take two separate thoughts from anyone's posts and make them look contracdictory. Try reading and responding to the thoughts in context.

For the fourth time:

On paper most of the Spurs addtions are upgrades. Losing David's defense will hurt and I want to see who we get as a backup PG. So far, looking at this season for what it is and not what it could've been — we are on the right track.

B1tch.

[CosmicCowboyXXX]

hehe hehehe hehe Travis said sucker!!!!!

[Ghost Writer]

Way to stunt a thread, travis.

Right now, Hedo Turkoglu does not compensate for the loss of Jackson, Robinson's defense and Speedy Claxton.

Time will tell.

[travis2]

Oh boy...you think I'm a nobody. Frankly, I put that just below my dog giving me his opinion on my choice of clothes for the day.

Fine, I'll humor you...again. I'm not saying anything I haven't said elsewhere anyway...

Nesterovic...To compare him with Robinson in even his near prime is absurd. However, in comparison with the Robinson of the last 2 years is reasonable. Rasho's numbers, while less than what David posted, also are something of a product of the system he was in at Minnesota. I fully expect his rebounds and blocks to go up in the Spurs defense. Whatever his faults, Pop does know how to teach defense. I'm willing to go on record as saying Rasho will thrive as a Spur.

Turkoglu...I liked him his rookie year and frankly was surprised he couldn't see more playing time last year. Again, that is a product of the Sacramento system...Stojakovic was ahead of him. Again, any defensive inconsistencies can be overcome with the proper teaching...and the proper system, which is already in place. I see Turkoglu having a very good first year with the Spurs and being resigned to a mid-length contract next year.

Horry...In my eyes, he's Mario Elie without the external roughness. Won't back down from anyone, and will shove the dagger in your heart on command. His legs are the only weak point in his game right now. As has been reported by others, with proper minutes management during the regular season, he will be in top form come playoff time. I see Horry playing well enough to warrant the team picking up his option, but cap considerations may not allow that.

Mercer...Throwaway, as far as I'm concerned. Anything he brings this year is gravy. Steve Smith with better defense and better moves. Regardless, $6+ million is too steep for more than a one-year deal. Gone next year.

Jackson...needs to fire his agent. Or at least to tell him to STFU and get out of the way. If he allows Fegan to ship him off to another team, he will fold up like an origami crane. As a Spur, however, he is already on the way to being a big game player.


Overall...I think we are a better team this year than last. Yes, the Spurs really could use a backup PG...but if they don't get one, they can survive. Speedy was gone for half the year and they did fine without him...there is enough ball-handling talent on the current roster to take up the slack. Defensively...while on paper one might make the argument that the Spurs have taken a step back, I disagree. I see the Spurs as standing pat. As I said, defense can be taught, and this staff has already proven it can do the teaching. Offensively...I see the Spurs as improved. I see the pieces the Spurs picked up this offseason as much more reliable than what we lost. Plus, another year of experience for Parker and Manu...that must be included in the equation. "Standing pat" in personnel doesn't equate to standing pat in talent. Even in the fast break, the Spurs are a disciplined team as a rule, and time together is necessary to make everything work. Manu this season does not equal Manu last season.

Would I have liked to see O'Neal in the post? Sure...who wouldn't. But it wasn't to be, and pistols aren't issued to GMs to force FAs to sign. You work with who is available.

Multiple superstars are not necessary to build championship teams. For proof...see Portland, Utah, and last year's Spurs. What is as (if not more) important is having a viable system on both offense and defense...and bringing in the talent that will work within that system.

These new pieces fit.


I'm not willing to concede the O'Brien trophy next year.