MORE INFO: Man who was shot dead on London subway.

[Useruser666]

Everyone is spinning this to suit themselves. I thought it was justified when the news first came out. The details at THAT time made it seem very resonable. If what has been revealed in these leaks are true, then it is a screw up, and could have possibly been prevented. With emotions running high at the time, it is understandable how this event unfolded.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Everyone is spinning this to suit themselves. I thought it was justified when the news first came out. The details at THAT time made it seem very resonable. If what has been revealed in these leaks are true, then it is a screw up, and could have possibly been prevented. With emotions running high at the time, it is understandable how this event unfolded.

I'm sorry, but that is bull . There is no ing way shooting a man 7 times in the head without having clear cut evidence he's guilty cons utes justifiable action. To think it does is just idiotic. Basically what everyone here has been saying for a while now is, our rights and liberties are sacred UNLESS we feel paranoid and unsafe, then rights go out the window and welcome police state! Give me a ing break!

Anyone who understands the importance of rights and proper procedure for that matter knew immediately that there had been a up! You don't just shoot a man 7 times and then say "oops, we thought he had a bomb"!

[1369]

Anyone who understands the importance of rights and proper procedure for that matter knew immediately that there had been a up! You don't just shoot a man 7 times and then say "oops, we thought he had a bomb"!

I disagree completely. How would the team who shot the man know their intelligence was wrong? If they had been told that he was indeed the bomber and was thought to be carrying a bomb belt or some other device and to take him out, how were they to know that he wasn't the right guy? The guys upstream who got it wrong from the beginning are the ones to blame, not the team on the ground.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

so, then only one officer would be in the wrong.. the rest would be off scott free... following orders...

and we all know how following orders is a justifiable excuse

[1369]

and we all know how following orders is a justifiable excuse

CBF, how was the team on the ground to know that the intelligence was wrong?

[Useruser666]

I'm sorry, but that is bull . There is no ing way shooting a man 7 times in the head without having clear cut evidence he's guilty cons utes justifiable action. To think it does is just idiotic. Basically what everyone here has been saying for a while now is, our rights and liberties are sacred UNLESS we feel paranoid and unsafe, then rights go out the window and welcome police state! Give me a ing break!

Anyone who understands the importance of rights and proper procedure for that matter knew immediately that there had been a up! You don't just shoot a man 7 times and then say "oops, we thought he had a bomb"!

So what were the cops at the scene supposed to do? Were they not supposedly told that the man was a terrorist? Were they not told to fire upon him if he would run? You have NO idea what it's like to be in a situation like that. The guys who shot him didn't think he had a bomb, THEY WERE TOLD HE COULD HAVE ONE. THEY WERE TOLD TO RESPOND IN A CERTAIN WAY. They did, and it cost the man his life. Now maybe if they were trained not to follow orders to the tee, or use more of their own judgment in these kind of instances, things would have been different. But to them, the man seemed to follow what they had been told was terrorist behavior. This of course, may have been exaggerated by the pressure and heightened sense of alarm the cops were feeling after just having suffered through an attack. But did anyone suspect the first set of bombers until just before they detonated their bombs? No. Was this a tragic event? Yes.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

You know, I didn't find out about this through a post on SpursTalk. I found out about from a post a friend of mine in England made on another board.

Shortly after the recent bombings in London, it was announced that armed police had shot dead a man they suspected of being a member of the gang who carried out the attacks.

I, in my usual bullish way, applauded the swift decisiveness of the police action, even to the extent of continuing my support for their action after it became clear that a mistake had been made and that an innocent man had been shot dead. My reasoning was that the real responsibility for this mans unecessary death was his own fault for not complying to the officers orders

Until this morning.

because our police lied i now like many other british citizens look a propper asshole i can only be thankfull that somone else in the police had the integrity to leak the report so we could all know the truth

Take it for what it's worth...but he is from England and is closer to this than many of us.

[smeagol]

So what were the cops at the scene supposed to do? Were they not supposedly told that the man was a terrorist? Were they not told to fire upon him if he would run? You have NO idea what it's like to be in a situation like that. The guys who shot him didn't think he had a bomb, THEY WERE TOLD HE COULD HAVE ONE. THEY WERE TOLD TO RESPOND IN A CERTAIN WAY. They did, and it cost the man his life. Now maybe if they were trained not to follow orders to the tee, or use more of their own judgment in these kind of instances, things would have been different. But to them, the man seemed to follow what they had been told was terrorist behavior. This of course, may have been exaggerated by the pressure and heightened sense of alarm the cops were feeling after just having suffered through an attack. But did anyone suspect the first set of bombers until just before they detonated their bombs? No. Was this a tragic event? Yes.

User, nobody said it was just the guys on the ground's fault. The up most certainly includes the inteligence people too. Actually, it's the intelligence people who take most of the blame in my book.

[smeagol]

I disagree completely. How would the team who shot the man know their intelligence was wrong? If they had been told that he was indeed the bomber and was thought to be carrying a bomb belt or some other device and to take him out, how were they to know that he wasn't the right guy? The guys upstream who got it wrong from the beginning are the ones to blame, not the team on the ground.

Agreed. But it is still a up.

It's certainly not the Brazilian's fault for "running", like clan was saying three weeks ago.

[Useruser666]

Agreed. But it is still a up.

It's certainly not the Brazilian's fault for "running", like clan was saying three weeks ago.

No, it's not his fault, but the cir stances of what happened that were released then seem to make it so. If indeed these new leaks are true, then the police will have to make changes to try and prevent this from happening again. What happened was most likely the end result of a series of unfortunate events that all together lead to the shooting of the man. Even if everyone did their job, the system as a whole failed that day. The proper procedures need to be in place so it can't happen again.

[smeagol]

No, it's not his fault, but the cir stances of what happened that were released then seem to make it so. If indeed these new leaks are true, then the police will have to make changes to try and prevent this from happening again. What happened was most likely the end result of a series of unfortunate events that all together lead to the shooting of the man. Even if everyone did their job, the system as a whole failed that day. The proper procedures need to be in place so it can't happen again.

Agreed 100%

[Clandestino]

Agreed. But it is still a up.

It's certainly not the Brazilian's fault for "running", like clan was saying three weeks ago.

If the original reports are true, that he ran after the cops told him to stop, then i still say that 99% of the blame falls on him..

[MaNuMaNiAc]

No, it's not his fault, but the cir stances of what happened that were released then seem to make it so. If indeed these new leaks are true, then the police will have to make changes to try and prevent this from happening again. What happened was most likely the end result of a series of unfortunate events that all together lead to the shooting of the man. Even if everyone did their job, the system as a whole failed that day. The proper procedures need to be in place so it can't happen again.

Ok, we're on the same page

[MaNuMaNiAc]

If the original reports are true, that he ran after the cops told him to stop, then i still say that 99% of the blame falls on him..

no, he ran to get to the train you jackass, what's wrong with that???

[cecil collins]

Blame the innocent, good. That way you can deflect any fault upon your precious governments, and police units.

[Spurminator]

Even if he was running from the cops because he thought they had caught him for a previous armed robbery, you wouldn't usually see him taken down execution style. He's dead because of bad intelligence.

[Clandestino]

no, he ran to get to the train you jackass, what's wrong with that???

but IF cops told him to stop and he didn't it is his fault. the reports are conflicting now... that is the only reason we have to wait for the final one...

[MaNuMaNiAc]

but IF cops told him to stop and he didn't it is his fault. the reports are conflicting now... that is the only reason we have to wait for the final one...

The latest do ents suggest Mr de Menezes had walked into Stockwell Tube station, picked up a free newspaper, walked through ticket barriers, had started to run when he saw a train arriving and was sitting down in a train when he was shot.

you really think that is he had heard the police shouting at him, that he would have sat down?

[Clandestino]

old reports say that he didn't stop when cops told him to...

[Spurminator]

And if this were any normal situation where someone was resisting arrest, he would have been chased down and handcuffed.

Because of a UP, he was shot in the head.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

the reports are conflicting now... that is the only reason we have to wait for the final one...

I'm betting if you look hard enough, there are conflicting reports about why we're in Iraq, too.

Hypocrite.

[Clandestino]

no, bc they thought he was a terrorist...

oops, small mistake

[Spurminator]

And they were wrong. up.

[Clandestino]

I'm betting if you look hard enough, there are conflicting reports about why we're in Iraq, too.

Hypocrite.

reason enough for me for going into iraq is over 10 year of UN sanctions violations, firing at u.s. and british airplanes over those 10 years as well.

so, you think it is was okay for them to fire on us? you must be a baathist.

[Clandestino]

And they were wrong. up.

better to sacrifice one person... if they had been right and tried to put in place all the procedures and red tape you terrorist lovers want, then a terrorist may have entered the train and killed 100s..