The Hairston Fascination

[jag]

I genuinely like Hairston. He's athletic, he hustles and plays D. I really do want to see him get more floor time, and it's obvious hes been working on his deep game. But i feel like it went from guys wanting to see Hairston get more PT, to guys wanting RJ gone so Hairston can fill that role. He's not ready for that.

When a guy gets hyped to unrealistic levels and gains a weird cult following...it becomes very hard to listen to any takes from his disciples.

See: Ian Mahinmi, Pops Mensah Bonsu, James white.

[Blackjack]

I don't believe it's because they didn't think he was ready, it's because they didn't want to risk him not being ready. That's a significant difference.

The Spurs new they were going to be lacking continuity with its core group when they added the likes of RJ and 'Dyess, so they wanted as much stability and certainty surrounding them as possible. Their upside and potential was in their core coming together -- they weren't looking for upside and anything vaguely unknown or unfamiliar on the periphery.

Malik beat Bogans out for the job by any rational measure but he had no prior experience built up or any overwhelming, undeniable, perhaps even star talent, to simply just trust what they were seeing and go with it.

I don't buy Malik's lack of playing time having anything to do with what he's shown them or done in his time with the Spurs. Manu's on record as saying he could see Malik as the future small forward, RC's been on record as saying he's never seen a player improve as much from one summer to the next during their last training camp . . .

Are these the kind of people that go out of their way to praise and kiss ass of supposed "scrubs" (as some have liked to refer to)?

I swear, I think most of the hate is nothing more than backlash for the love he's been shown. To a degree, the same thing's been done to Hill -- nitpicking at weaknesses so much that they forget or underrate all the other aspects that make him the asset he is.

Hairston's a role player. He can play a role. A needed role. But in order to play that role, he's going to have to be entrusted with a role; or at least given the type of la ude a Bogans received to find his way and rhythm with the team instead of getting jerked out the moment there's a mistake.

Malik can shoot the ball, but he's not a pure shooter. He needs a rhythm. And while he's out there finding that rhythm, he does some other quality things that a team needs.

Things like: playing D, rebounding, drawing fouls and brining energy and toughness to the floor. Ya know, stuff every team needs? Ya know, like "glue guys" or ... what's that term?

Oh, yeah ... role player.

But I digress.

[jag]

I don't believe it's because they didn't think he was ready, it's because they didn't want to risk him not being ready. That's a significant difference.

The Spurs new they were going to be lacking continuity with its core group when they added the likes of RJ and 'Dyess, so they wanted as much stability and certainty surrounding them as possible. Their upside and potential was in their core coming together -- they weren't looking for upside and anything vaguely unknown or unfamiliar on the periphery.

Malik beat Bogans out for the job by any rational measure but he had no prior experience built up or any overwhelming, undeniable, perhaps even star talent, to simply just trust what they were seeing and go with it.

I don't buy Malik's lack of playing time having anything to do with what he's shown them or done in his time with the Spurs. Manu's on record as saying he could see Malik as the future small forward, RC's been on record as saying he's never seen a player improve as much from one summer to the next during their last training camp . . .

Are these the kind of people that go out of their way to praise and kiss ass of supposed "scrubs" (as some have liked to refer to)?

I swear, I think most of the hate is nothing more than backlash for the love he's been shown. To a degree, the same thing's been done to Hill -- nitpicking at weaknesses so much that they forget or underrate all the other aspects that make him the asset he is.

Hairston's a role player. He can play a role. A needed role. But in order to play that role, he's going to have to be entrusted with a role; or at least given the type of la ude a Bogans received to find his way and rhythm with the team instead of getting jerked out the moment there's a mistake.

Malik can shoot the ball, but he's not a pure shooter. He needs a rhythm. And while he's out there finding that rhythm, he does some other quality things that a team needs.

Things like: playing D, rebounding, drawing fouls and brining energy and toughness to the floor. Ya know, stuff every team needs? Ya know, like "glue guys" or ... what's that term?

Oh, yeah ... role player.

But I digress.

Yes, future. Possibly. There's a reason he's not the present and it's because he's not ready. There's a time to develop and incorporate a bunch of young guys into your roster...during one last push for a le, is not that time.

Hairston's "hate" isn't even directed at Hairston, it's directed at the people who won't stop pimping him like he's accomplished something. We get it. Just like we got it with the Mahinmi crowd. And this is coming from someone that really wanted the Spurs to keep, and play Ian. I agree that Malik is better than bogans, but when the Spurs were trying to work things out with RJ they didn't have time to let Hairston work out his kinks and find his magical rhythm. If the Spurs work Malik into the lineup this year i'll be happy...but i don't hope for it for the sake of Hairston. If it helps the spurs win, im all for it.

[Blackjack]

Yes, future. Possibly. There's a reason he's not the present and it's because he's not ready.

And you can say that with certainty 'cause? Are you suggesting the Spurs haven't benefited from a young player with a comparable standing in the league -- or maybe even any team in recent memory -- being in the rotation of a championship-caliber or elite team?

There's a time to develop and incorporate a bunch of young guys into your roster...during one last push for a le, is not that time.

Hairston is singular and when the alternative is Bogans, you role the dice with the person that outplayed him -- even if he doesn't have a few years of underwhelming play in the league in his back pocket.

Hairston's "hate" isn't even directed at Hairston, it's directed at the people who won't stop pimping him like he's accomplished something.

I swear, I think most of the hate is nothing more than backlash for the love he's been shown. To a degree, the same thing's been done to Hill -- nitpicking at weaknesses so much that they forget or underrate all the other aspects that make him the asset he is.

We get it.

Do you, and who's we?

Just like we got it with the Mahinmi crowd.

Nope, you definitely don't -- you had your mind made up before you even read my comments and were just waiting to tell another one of dem irrational son es just how foolish they were.

Generalizations and salutations, brah.

And this is coming from someone that really wanted the Spurs to keep, and play Ian. I agree that Malik is better than bogans, but when the Spurs were trying to work things out with RJ they didn't have time to let Hairston work out his kinks and find his magical rhythm. If the Spurs work Malik into the lineup this year i'll be happy...but i don't hope for it for the sake of Hairston. If it helps the spurs win, im all for it.

Other then your feeling the need to throw "magical" in there (as if rhythm is some foreign matter in regards to basketball -- but I understand the level of annoyance you were already at), I don't have a problem with any of that. I disagree that they couldn't have chosen to go with Hairston over Bogans during that time -- the only certainty Bogans was giving them was that the opposition would outscore them when he was on the floor -- but I don't think you're crazy or irrational for thinking that.

I just disagree.

Get Lifted . . .

[Obstructed_View]

I wasnt the biggest fan of him but Bogans wasnt handed his minutes. He actually played pretty well early in the season during that stretch where the Spurs couldnt win a road game/stay healthy to save their lives. Remember those Church of Bogans threads and people being in love with his 'tenacious' defense? I dont think Pop went into the season with the mindset that Bogans was going to be a 'centerpiece' especially after the way he played in the pre-season, Bogans actually played his way into the rotation. Although later in the season he played himself out of it and deserved to be yanked.

Wow. You should go to the doctor and have your memory checked.

[silverblk mystix]

Hairston should have seen more floor time than;

1) Bogans

2) Mason

3) Bonner

Temple should have seen more time than;

1) Bogans

2) Mason

3) Bonner

Mahinmi should have seen more floor time than;

1) Bogans

2) Mason

3) Bonner

if it is NOT readily apparent to your eyes now--it will be this coming season, as you will see these players show how much valuable they were/are OVER;

1)Bogans

2) Mason

3) Bonner

and I hope that Pop is held accountable-this time.

[FkLA]

Wow. You should go to the doctor and have your memory checked.

Do I really need to bump those Church of Bogans threads? People were in love with him for a while, especially his defense. He wasnt 'given' a rotation spot.

[Obstructed_View]

Do I really need to bump those Church of Bogans threads? People were in love with him for a while, especially his defense. He wasnt 'given' a rotation spot.

You mean thread. It was created on November 11 when he scored 13 points in a victory over Dallas. It died before his next game and wasn't bumped again until today. It's okay, you don't have to apologize.

He was "given" a rotation spot. People were "in love with him" because he was given the spot that Michael Finley was previously "given" for no reason, and they hoped he was an upgrade. He wasn't.

[TJastal]

Why the fascination? The guy put up huge all-around numbers in summer league and has hardly been given any regular minutes on the spurs.

Because ing POop loves to play old farts instead of developing young players doesn't mean Hairston sucks.

[ceperez]

He was "given" a rotation spot. People were "in love with him" because he was given the spot that Michael Finley was previously "given" for no reason, and they hoped he was an upgrade. He wasn't.

Was this the same Michael Finley who was shooting over 40% this season from the 3 point line before he got injured?

[HarlemHeat37]

It was the same Michael Finley that shot 31% from 3s with the Spurs this season and posted up a historically bad PER of 6.5..

[Obstructed_View]

Was this the same Michael Finley who was shooting over 40% this season from the 3 point line before he got injured?

Oh how memories fade. It's the same Michael Finley that was so bad on defense and so inconsistent on offense that people thought Keith Bogans might be an upgrade. Again, he wasn't.

[FkLA]

You mean thread. It was created on November 11 when he scored 13 points in a victory over Dallas. It died before his next game and wasn't bumped again until today. It's okay, you don't have to apologize.

He was "given" a rotation spot. People were "in love with him" because he was given the spot that Michael Finley was previously "given" for no reason, and they hoped he was an upgrade. He wasn't.

With that specific name there was only one, sure. I was referring to several threads being started by the Church of Bogans not numerous threads being named the Church of Bogans, that would be pretty redundant.

The guy had a horrible pre-season, played garbage minutes in the opener, got a couple minutes the first winless roadtrip, played well, and was subsequently put into the starting line-up because our defense was horrible. He continued to be ok for a while, the hate didnt start till later in the season when it became apparent that he wasnt a starter. He definitely wasnt given a spot.

Like I said though I dont even like the guy much. He's a 10th-12th man at best. But so is Hairston, we're talking about scrubs here yet the Get Lifted crew acts like Hairston wouldve been a huge upgrade. Ever think that the same reason people fell in love with Bogans is the same reason you guys are in love with Hairston? Your were hoping that he couldve been an upgrade over Bogans when theyre both actually two very limited players.

[Obstructed_View]

Bogans was a journeyman vet who had one decent season as a pro and was a fair to poor NBA player. Hairston is a high draft pick of the Spurs who was the best player in the D league two seasons, made big plays every time he was on the floor against NBA talent and outplayed the out of Bogans during the preseason. One guy has upside, the other doesn't. One guy plays really good defense, the other doesn't. One guy is young and athletic, the other isn't.

Suggesting that Hairston "is a very limited player" is extaordinarily ignorant. After the way Goran Dragic face ed the Spurs in the playoffs (a guy Suns fans constantly labeled a scrub while he was actually getting playing time), I don't really see how anyone would be stupid enough to just write off a draft pick, particularly one who has worked to improve and learn the system, and who actually seems to have a knack for rebounding and defense.

[DPG21920]

So can you explain why bogans was anymore ready tha Malik? Malik proved to be a better player.

[mattyc]

Malik Hairston!

[TD 21]

I don't know why some have a difficult time imagining Hairston being a quality role player in this league. Look at D. Jones, he was a fringe player in the league for years, then finally got an opportunity with a good team and showed he could play above average defense. He now has a four year contract (probably shouldn't, but still). Matthews is another example. Undrafted, ends up starting for a good team because he was an above average defender, who could keep the defense honest. He's now being pursued by various teams. T. Allen has been in and out of the rotation over the years, but showed that despite his obvious limitations, he could be a useful role player for a championship caliber team. He's also being pursued by various teams.

Right now, Hairston is a nobody and it would be an upset of epic proportions were he to become a star, but he's got potential similar to those players. The only difference is, while those guys got a chance, Hairston has yet to receive his.

If Jefferson leaves, then the Spurs will probably need to acquire two wings, but if he stays, I'd be fine with the Spurs forging a wing acquisition and allowing Hairston to have a chance to be a rotation player, in part due to the unappealing list of players that the Spurs could afford.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't know why some have a difficult time imagining Hairston being a quality role player in this league.

I don't know how fans of Bruce Bowen's team can label so many young players trash so soon and expect to be taken seriously.

[FkLA]

I don't know how fans of Bruce Bowen's team can label so many young players trash so soon and expect to be taken seriously.

For every Bruce Bowen there are hundreds of Romain Sato's, Linton Johnson III's, Ime Udoka's, or the numerous other guys that have come through and been labeled as Bowen's succesor. Let's not act like Bruce Bowens fall out of trees.

I dont dislike Hairston though, given the option I'd take him over Bogans this upcoming year as a 10-12th man. What I disagree with is people thinking he can be alot more than that. It just seems homerish to me, its the same type of fascination that has been shown towards guys like Mahinmi and Pops. Hairston's handles and shot are simply not on par with that of a rotation guy on a team that has championship aspirations. He's a freak athelete but he's still a limited player especially offensively.

[yavozerb]

I don't know how fans of Bruce Bowen's team can label so many young players trash so soon and expect to be taken seriously.

point taken...Lets have Hairston develop into a legit NBA player on someone else's dime and come back to the spurs in about 5 yrs.

[ohmwrecker]

Wow. You should go to the doctor and have your memory checked.

Can they do that?! Cool!

[Obstructed_View]

For every Bruce Bowen there are hundreds of Romain Sato's, Linton Johnson III's, Ime Udoka's, or the numerous other guys that have come through and been labeled as Bowen's succesor. Let's not act like Bruce Bowens fall out of trees.

I dont dislike Hairston though, given the option I'd take him over Bogans this upcoming year as a 10-12th man. What I disagree with is people thinking he can be alot more than that. It just seems homerish to me, its the same type of fascination that has been shown towards guys like Mahinmi and Pops. Hairston's handles and shot are simply not on par with that of a rotation guy on a team that has championship aspirations. He's a freak athelete but he's still a limited player especially offensively.

Bruce Bowens don't fall out of trees, but someone has to give one a chance in order for him to contribute. Every good player started out as a young player. It's simply too early for anyone to be making pronouncements about Hairston. There's a giganitc difference between my saying that he has more upside than Bogans and should get playing time and your making a flat statement that he's inadequate. Could he end up sucking? Yeah. How is it he's been with the team going on a third season and we don't know that yet. Why aren't we all in agreement that now's the time to find out? If he can't figure it out then I want him off the roster by Christmas.

I'm not sure why a Spurs fan wanting the Spurs to develop their own draft picks is any more "homerish" than rooting for the Spurs to win a championship is.

[Obstructed_View]

point taken...Lets have Hairston develop into a legit NBA player on someone else's dime and come back to the spurs in about 5 yrs.

You've been a Spurs fan for too long. It doesn't take seven years to figure out if a draft pick is a legitimate NBA player or not. It's a whole lot of fail that Hairston and Mahinmi have been with the team as long as they have and nobody knows anything for sure about them.

[yavozerb]

You've been a Spurs fan for too long. It doesn't take seven years to figure out if a draft pick is a legitimate NBA player or not. It's a whole lot of fail that Hairston and Mahinmi have been with the team as long as they have and nobody knows anything for sure about them.

Do you remember Bowen in the first 2 years of his career or the last 2? It takes many players much longer than 2 years to become legitimate NBA players. In a franchise such as the spurs you better hit the floor running and show something or you will be put on the back burner until you do. Do you really think Pop would have kept playing Hill, Parker, or Blair early in their careers if they did not contribute while on the floor? I know you are going to say they must have a chance to prove themselves and they do. Everyday in practice, the offseason, and spot regular season game minutes. Hairston in my opinion never gave any reason to warrant minutes over other players. His defense was good at times and spotty at other times, his offense was below average with his inability to hit (or take for that matter) a jumpshot, rebounding was his greatest asset, and he picked up fouls in bunches which would not allow much PT even if he was playing well. Mahinmi on the other hand hurt himself with injuries and was a foul machine in his 1st season. 2nd season was wasted by injuries and the 3rd season is where I would agree that his PT should have been higher.

[Obstructed_View]

Do you remember Bowen in the first 2 years of his career or the last 2? It takes many players much longer than 2 years to become legitimate NBA players. In a franchise such as the spurs you better hit the floor running and show something or you will be put on the back burner until you do. Do you really think Pop would have kept playing Hill, Parker, or Blair early in their careers if they did not contribute while on the floor? I know you are going to say they must have a chance to prove themselves and they do. Everyday in practice, the offseason, and spot regular season game minutes. Hairston in my opinion never gave any reason to warrant minutes over other players. His defense was good at times and spotty at other times, his offense was below average with his inability to hit (or take for that matter) a jumpshot, rebounding was his greatest asset, and he picked up fouls in bunches which would not allow much PT even if he was playing well. Mahinmi on the other hand hurt himself with injuries and was a foul machine in his 1st season. 2nd season was wasted by injuries and the 3rd season is where I would agree that his PT should have been higher.

Bowen was an extreme example; let's not act like all players take that long to develop.

Secondly, if you're operating on the statement that Hairston never gave any reason to warrant minutes over Keith Bogans, then we're at an impasse, because I'm prepared to point (once again) to Hairston's preseason last year and to Pop's love affair with certain vets that causes him to stunt the development of young players. There's a clear track record of that with this team.

If nothing else, we're in pseudo-agreement that Hairston either needs to be getting minutes or ne needs not to have a roster spot. I'd be satisfied if the team just did what so many fans are doing and pronounce him completely useless and try to fill his spot with someone that can actually help the team win.