So lets talk about reinventing education

[George Gervin's Afro]

I said funding across the board. Affluent communities get more funding, in a number of areas, than impoverished communities.

He doesn't get it..

[Nbadan]

In TX, le 1 money evens more of the spending per student avg that rich districts have over poor....but it all depends on how districts and principals spend the money..;..also no amount of money can pay for a parent who cares about their child's education - the number one factor to a good education...

[CosmicCowboy]

No pay, no tips. I'd be firm about that.

I could argue that if achieving mentor/tutor status required testing out as having complete mastery of a subject, then knowing that they could possibly pick up a little extra money gives all students incentive for acquiring total mastery of the subject. It makes learning "cool".

[Nbadan]

I could argue that if achieving mentor/tutor status required testing out as having complete mastery of a subject, then knowing that they could possibly pick up a little extra money gives all students incentive for acquiring total mastery of the subject. It makes learning "cool".

I'm all for paying students for good grades and staying out of trouble

[admiralsnackbar]

There are still schools/families who can't afford computers. Lots of them. Or who don't know how to use them. Or who find them wholly intimidating.

This was a problem in Mexico in 2006, too. There were also questions of infrastructure, since many schools were located in places that had no telephones or internet -- some even lacked electricity or as much as walls (palapas). The solution we came up with while working on a contract for the Secretariat of Education was to cobble together telephone, DSL, cable, microwave cell towers, and even satellite bandwidth to connect all the schools in MX in a virtual private network for the transmission of an interactive educational suite named Encyclomedia.

Besides sending a crew to install the equipment along with whatever specific safeguards it might need (power, ground, enclosure, etc), they would also walk teachers through the use of the rig, in particular the VoIP phone, which was connected to a central help desk in Mexico City by means of a "panic button." We also had regional IT guys who could get out to any school in a few hours to do maintenance work.

Now, yeah, this was a Federal project, but the point is that most problems are resolvable and -- just 4 years later -- at a much lesser cost. People intimidated by computers need only be told how to turn on a laptop in order to be walked through basic functions with automated software tutorials. As for infrastructure, that's just not a problem in this country. And thin-clients are cheaper than the average school textbook when bought in bulk.

[CosmicCowboy]

He doesn't get it..

I get it head. Apparently you don't.

I directly compared NEISD And SAISD. Are you going to tell me that SAISD with downtown doesn't have an adequate tax base? , I pay $18,000 a year in SAISD school taxes just from my little place.

You can't blame their 50% dropout rate on lack of money.

[CuckingFunt]

I could argue that if achieving mentor/tutor status required testing out as having complete mastery of a subject, then knowing that they could possibly pick up a little extra money gives all students incentive for acquiring total mastery of the subject. It makes learning "cool".

No, it doesn't. It makes earning money cool, and learning the thing you have to do to get it. There's a tremendous difference there.

[admiralsnackbar]

I resent the implication that Skype is an appropriate subs ute for one-on-one human interaction.

You're welcome to your opinion. I personally think it's a great tool, and it helps me explain concepts to co-workers far away that I could only otherwise do in person.

[MannyIsGod]

For one, there is a reason online degrees are a last resort.

for two, it is not cheap. the computer in a childs hands does not include the IT expense, which would be massive, and the admin expense. So you trade teachers for IT admins...sounds like a real winner.

three states cant afford to implement it on thier own, THEY ARE BROKE, so they would be forced to rely on fed funding. AND the fed gov would likely be happy to oblige right now...but federal expenditure the last thing we need.

This post is wrong on so many levels. Online degrees are not last resorts. Every year Universities increase their online capacity and the courses that are offered. Its growing rapidly.

IT expenses are not massive. I can't imagine they're even more than actually building and running classrooms. Physical infrastructure isn't exactly cheap and requires far more maintenance than online infrastructure.

[Wild Cobra]

Oregon schools suck. they continually rank at the bottom of the nation when it comes to education

Yes, quite a few do. Primarily because liberals have run this state for the last 20 years or so, and believe money is the solution, rather than real fixes.

We spend something like $13,000 per student now.

I'm really clad I live in the Centennial school district rather than the Portland district. Very few kids with bad at udes affecting other students.

Centennial High school

[CosmicCowboy]

No, it doesn't. It makes earning money cool, and learning the thing you have to do to get it. There's a tremendous difference there.

And thats a bad thing?

[CuckingFunt]

This was a problem in Mexico in 2006, too. There were also questions of infrastructure, since many schools were located in places that had no telephones or internet -- some even lacked electricity or as much as walls (palapas). The solution we came up with while working on a contract for the Secretariat of Education was to cobble together telephone, DSL, cable, microwave cell towers, and even satellite bandwidth to connect all the schools in MX in a virtual private network for the transmission of an interactive educational suite named Encyclomedia.

Besides sending a crew to install the equipment along with whatever specific safeguards it might need (power, ground, enclosure, etc), they would also walk teachers through the use of the rig, in particular the VoIP phone, which was connected to a central help desk in Mexico City by means of a "panic button." We also had regional IT guys who could get out to any school in a few hours to do maintenance work.

Now, yeah, this was a Federal project, but the point is that most problems are resolvable and -- just 4 years later -- at a much lesser cost. People intimidated by computers need only be told how to turn on a laptop in order to be walked through basic functions with automated software tutorials. As for infrastructure, that's just not a problem in this country.

I was thinking more in terms of parent response.

Extremely rural communities, and inner city communities, where it is fairly common to not have a computer and/or internet access, are also the communities in which education is valued less. You really think a mother who doesn't have and/or doesn't trust computers AND who doesn't trust and/or value the importance of education is going to embrace a school system built entirely around computers?

[Winehole23]

I could argue that if achieving mentor/tutor status required testing out as having complete mastery of a subject, then knowing that they could possibly pick up a little extra money gives all students incentive for acquiring total mastery of the subject. It makes learning "cool".

Introducing direct financial incentives could attract students more attracted to the money than the learning. I'm not sure quite why, but this idea makes my spidey-sense tingle.

[CuckingFunt]

You're welcome to your opinion. I personally think it's a great tool, and it helps me explain concepts to co-workers far away that I could only otherwise do in person.

Adult co-workers.

[CuckingFunt]

And thats a bad thing?

Yes, actually, it is.

[Parker2112]

This post is wrong on so many levels. Online degrees are not last resorts. Every year Universities increase their online capacity and the courses that are offered. Its growing rapidly.

IT expenses are not massive. I can't imagine they're even more than actually building and running classrooms. Physical infrastructure isn't exactly cheap and requires far more maintenance than online infrastructure.

We are not talking about 1000 students here (like an online program might) your talking about a system that would host TENS OF MILLIONS OF KIDS SIMULTANEOUSLY 8 hours a day. When I worked for the State of Texas, we had a 6 story building of IT for the most archaic network known to man. ANd its still stone age technology in that agency.

As for online degrees, you wont find any serious professionals touting an online degree...in many of the places I've worked at, if you were a high level adminstrator with an online degree, you were heckled...at least behind your back.

People get an online degree when kids tie them down, or when they have to work full time. They do serve a purpose, but REAL ATTENDANCE IS STILL COMPULSORY IF YOU ARE SERIOUS ABOUT LEARNING. dont doubt it for a minute.

[admiralsnackbar]

I was thinking more in terms of parent response.

Extremely rural communities, and inner city communities, where it is fairly common to not have a computer and/or internet access, are also the communities in which education is valued less. You really think a mother who doesn't have and/or doesn't trust computers AND who doesn't trust and/or value the importance of education is going to embrace a school system built entirely around computers?

I can't answer that with any certainty, but I can tell you she'd want her child to have more opportunities than she did, and that the diminished tax-hit for online education would catch her attention. You also have to figure that if she's in a poor rural area, she knows how limited the economic options are for someone like her. Are there probably just as many Piper-Laurie-in-Carrie moms out there who would seek to shelter their kids from connecting to larger communities? Sure. But would they make up the electoral majority? Don't know, but I'd lean towards no.

[Parker2112]

Yes, quite a few do. Primarily because liberals have run this state for the last 20 years or so, and believe money is the solution, rather than real fixes.

We spend something like $13,000 per student now.

I'm really clad I live in the Centennial school district rather than the Portland district. Very few kids with bad at udes affecting other students.

Centennial High school

Ah...Gresham. I lived in Lake Oswego for 4 years myself. Now I'm in central Texas. I miss the out of Oregon...bad schools and all. Lake O is exemplary though.

[MannyIsGod]

We are not talking about 1000 students here (like an online program might) your talking about a system that would host TENS OF MILLIONS OF KIDS SIMULTANEOUSLY 8 hours a day. When I worked for the State of Texas, we had a 6 story building of IT for the most archaic network known to man. ANd its still stone age technology in that agency.

As for online degrees, you wont find any serious professionals touting an online degree...in many of the places I've worked at, if you were a high level adminstrator with an online degree, you were heckled...at least behind your back.

People get an online degree when kids tie them down, or when they have to work full time. They do serve a purpose, but REAL ATTENDANCE IS STILL COMPULSORY IF YOU ARE SERIOUS ABOUT LEARNING. dont doubt it for a minute.

I'm not talking University of Phoenix online degrees. I'm talking about an indistinguishable degrees from universities everywhere. I'd love to see you heckle a degree you didn't even know was gained online.

I work part time and although I'm not getting my entire degree online I am taking 6 hours this summer online and 6 hours this fall online. You're right that a lot of it has to do with convenience, and because I'm in a scientific field I would not be able to avoid completely going to class but I don't see the classes I've taken online as lesser versions by any means. There is often increased interaction and the material is the complete equivlant to what is learned in class.

Also, on the costs. You completely ignore that those students you're afraid of having to pay for online are already being funded in physical locations. You think running a physical school is more expensive than running a online school? I don't have figures to back that up, so I'm basically assuming here, but I have a hard time imagining a physical school costing less than an online school.

[CuckingFunt]

I can't answer that with any certainty, but I can tell you she'd want her child to have more opportunities than she did, and that the diminished tax-hit for online education would catch her attention. You also have to figure that if she's in a poor rural area, she knows how limited the economic options are for someone like her. Are there probably just as many Piper-Laurie-in-Carrie moms out there who would seek to shelter their kids from connecting to larger communities? Sure. But would they make up the electoral majority? Don't know, but I'd lean towards no.

Ah. So it's an okay solution as long as it only isolates/alienates a few people. Collateral damage, and such.

[admiralsnackbar]

Ah. So it's an okay solution as long as it only isolates/alienates a few people. Collateral damage, and such.

Our present system is different... how? You have the TSBOE trying desperately to undermine received scientific and historical materials despite alienating a huge swath of people who do not subscribe to Evangelical truisms. Thankfully Texas Freedom Network and others fight them tooth and nail, but in the end, those ers got elected and can do more-or-less as they will. I realize that tarnishes the idealism of my earlier posts, but so be it.

[Wild Cobra]

OK...

I did a little research. The 2008 to 2009 school year all funds budget for by daughters school district (Centennial) was $78,080,235. Student K-12 enrollment of 6109. This amounts to $12,781.18 per student. 2009-2010 numbers are what Lars Larson talks about, and he places them at over $13,000 per student.

[Winehole23]

People get an online degree when kids tie them down, or when they have to work full time. They do serve a purpose, but REAL ATTENDANCE IS STILL COMPULSORY IF YOU ARE SERIOUS ABOUT LEARNING. dont doubt it for a minute.

http://www.westga.edu/~distance/ojdl...lentine53.html

[CuckingFunt]

Our present system is different... how?

Why would I advocate trading one broken system that only aims to help some students for another broken system that only aims to help some students, but does it in a flashier and more high tech way?

[admiralsnackbar]

Adult co-workers.

Any interaction requires protocols of behavior, even classrooms.