He's a perfect fit, because his strengths are Boozer's weaknesses. Noah is a long, mobile rim protector, while Boozer is slightly undersized, a sub par defender and can't protect the rim.
How is Noah undersized? He's 6-11 and I believe bulked up to 260 last season. Does he get overpowered by O'Neal, Howard, etc.? Yeah. So do a lot of players.
If Noah is 260, he has a horrible strength and conditioning trainer.
From all accounts, Noah is closer to 225-230. At 6'11, that is very slight. It's more pronounced on Noah because he doesn't have broad shoulders and he doesn't have a strong build in the upper body. That muscle mass better be in his legs and his ass because if he's 260, he didn't get any of it in his upper body.
No he doesn't. The last PG with the potential of being the go to guy on a championship team was Isiah Thomas. No PG since him has been the go to guy on a championship team.
You lost credibility when you described Noah as "undersized". He's 6-11, with good length and though he's still not all that strong, he now weighs roughly 260.
You lost even more credibility with that "last PG with the potential of being a go to guy on a championship team was Isiah Thomas" comment. What about Billups in '04?
You don't think Paul or Williams could be the go-to guy for a championship team or at least the best player on the team?
No I don't. It's also re ed to call anyone the "go-to" guy on the 04 Pistons, they were a true unit with no true go to guy.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/player...?playerId=3224 (weight: 232)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../noahjo01.html (weight: 232)
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/joakim....html?nav=page (weight: 232)
http://hoopshype.com/players/joakim_noah.htm (weight: 227)
Before attacking my credibility, please provide a link to back up your "credible" claim that Noah weighs 260. A center who weighs roughly 230 pounds is undersized.
No, Billups was their go-to guy.
Players listings are usually outdated. You think R. Wallace or K. Thomas still weigh 230 and 235? Not a chance. But that's what they're still listed at.
I'll give you an example...
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=jy-spurs080809
"Popovich said Duncan has lost 15 pounds and now weighs 240"
Yet if you look on any site, you'll find he's still listed at 260.
I also heard last season that Bynum is 272 (still listed at 285), Nowitzki is 243 (still listed at 245), Bosh is 245 (still listed at 230), etc.
I can't remember where I read or heard it, but I remember reading or hearing that Noah weighs 260 (I knew full well he was still listed at 232, though). Why would I lie about something like that?
You said "last season" he had bulked up to 260. There is no evidence as such. And if you watched the Bulls play at all last season, you know damn well he was no 260. Even if he's bulked up, no way was it by 30 lbs. That's something you notice. At 6'11, 230-240 is very slight for a center and absolutely falls under the category of "undersized" based on weight, bulk, and strength.
If you're going to make a claim like that, you should have evidence and a link to it. It's not a matter of why you would lie or not. It's supporting a claim that isn't reasonable.
"I'm not saying overpaying for production is always a bad thing (the Lakers are now overpaying for Kobe and that's working out pretty well I'd say) but I guess I'm just not as high on Melo as many are."O great more of this "he's not worth a max contract" mongoloid madness.
I guess all teams in the NBA that don't have either Lebron, Kobe or Wade should never give a max contract to someone who doesn't deserve it. Instead, they should build their team around role players with reasonable contracts. Hey, they might suck and have no way of closing games or contending for a championship, but at least they won't be overpaying anyone (
That's the last sentence of what you replied to, but given your response it appears you missed it.
I don't care whether there's "evidence of such". Either take my word for it, or don't, I don't care. What would my motivation be for saying that if it were not true? Why would the writer/commentator I saw write that/say that do so if they didn't get it from Noah or someone around the team who would know?
Who said it was 30 pounds? Maybe he was already at 240-245 the previous year, then packed on another 15 pounds. Who knows? That goes back to my point about these listings being outdated. Because they don't update them regularly, no one (fan, at least) really knows what they weigh year to year.
The 2008 Lakers were the worst defensive team to make the finals in the past decade. Literally, they were. Last year's 8 seed Bulls had a better defensive rating. The 2009 Lakers are more indicative of what the Bulls will face this year.
Absolutely he was. He paralyzed the whole jazz offense in our series last year. It was pathetic to watch. We completely ignored him and it crippled their PnR and spacing. I don't think you realize just how limited an offensive player he is.Would it help if Brewer were a good three point shooter? Of course. Was he deadweight because he couldn't?
This past decade's NBA doesn't have anything to do with next years NBA though.Trevor Ariza and Rondo are better players than Brewer. I wouldn't argue otherwise. That doesn't change the reason why I challenged your initial comment. You're modifying your argument when what I challenged was your notion that a team can't go anywhere with two offensive deadweights. That's been proven over and over this past decade to be inaccurate. You modifying your argument to talk about other things those "deadweights" could contribute changes the argument.
I don't get how you think i'm changing stuff around. I'm not trying to say how the offensive deadweights of Ariza and Rondo could still contribute. I'm saying that they weren't offensive deadweights in the first place. One was shooting lights out and one was an excellent dribble-drive finisher and passer. Brewer is neither.
hahaha, thanksThe Bulls aren't my team. I don't give a how deep they go in the playoffs, much less feel satisfied or unsatisfied with how far they go. You're channeling your Laker fan bias once again with the "championship or nothing" logic.
Sure. I'm just saying with the addition of Melo, and keeping Noah, they'd be competing for a championship right away, IMO, and they wouldn't have to wait. You think Bulls fans would be opposed to that? Yes they could trade Noah away and hope they acquire a similar piece in the next couple years, but depending on how much pressure Denver gets in the next few months to deal Melo or see him walk, there's a good possibility they won't have to wait that long.With most teams that grow and are being built to win championships, there is a progression. There are steps. You can't just make a couple major moves and then expect to win a le right away like Boston did in 2008. That's not how easy it's supposed to be. If you're the Bulls, you give up Noah for Melo with no hesitation if you know you have Carmelo longterm. You have the foundation of Rose, Melo, and Boozer. Then you go from there. You have holes in at C and SG but that's what you address the following off-season.
Melo will only go to NY or Chi, and NY doesn't have the assets, so Chicago is in a good position to wait it out. If time goes by and Denver isn't budging, then you consider including Noah. But first you try to screw them - thats whats happened with every other star player trade in the past decade.
Why do you need to "take someone's word for it" when there's demonstrable evidence to the contrary?
If I tell you a yard in football is 4 feet, and you say, "Let's go out and measure", and my response is to you, "Well you can take my word for it or not", what do you think you're going to say? "Okay yeah maybe it is 4 feet."?
Noah looks like he's 235 pounds. He's skinny.
Sorry. That's not even close to 260.
Why should we take your word for it when our eyes, multiple scouting reports, and his actual NBA bio page tell us you are wrong?
Wow. This is ridiculous. I either heard or read it (can't remember) from someone who would know. You think somebody would make up something like this? Who would do that? Why would they do it? Think about this logically and stop trying to get me on a technicality.
I just gave you an example of a player being 20 pounds under their listed weight. Or does Pop not quality as enough "evidence" for you?
The Jazz were hurt more by Memo getting injured and Kirilenko's talent falling off a cliff than it was because of Brewer's inability to make three point jumpers. The Jazz had more problems. There's a reason why Brewer still played starter minutes when they had a guy on the bench who could make three pointers in CJ Miles. The Jazz had defense and depth issues against the Lakers in 2009. Those were bigger issues than three point shooting. And the lack of three point shooting wasn't just on Brewer. Kirilenko couldn't hit . Harpring was no longer physically able to play significant minutes, much less contribute. And Memo got injured. That's three other guys in that core that were non-facts who should have been expected to contribute with three point shooting. When you consider those players, sure Brewer's lack of three point ability plays a role. On a team with Rose, Melo, Boozer, and Korver, it's not a huge issue as long as Brewer does the other things, defend, attack the offensive glass, slash, and get hustle points from the 2-guard position. It is changing your argument. It's not specifically Brewer's lack of three point shooting that becomes the main detriment on a team, depending on the rest of the players on the roster and what is needed from him. It goes back to your initial comment that a team can't go anywhere with two offensive deadweights. For example, let me put Brewer and Kurt Thomas on a team with Chris Paul, LeBron James, and Dwight Howard. I'd be confident that that team can contend. It's not about two offensive deadweights. It all depends on what else surrounds them on a team.
And, I'll say it again, even if the Bulls traded for Melo and kept Joakim Noah, they still wouldn't contend for a le right away. They'd still have to get defensive depth in the front court. They still wouldn't beat Miami or a "healthy" Boston team and probably wouldn't beat Orlando. That still spells second round exit. So what's the difference?
You trade Noah to get Melo, do what you can this upcoming season. And then fill the rest of the holes in the upcoming seasons. It still hinges on being able to keep Melo long term.
The Chicago Bulls would be a different team, high scoring and hard to guard, than the defensive-minded team they have now. That said, there's plenty of time with Carmelo Anthony (26), Derrick Rose (22), and Carlos Boozer (30) all still in their prime. Noah, on most nights, will not guard the best big on the court--that will be left to Boozer. He's a rebounder and shot-blocker that would benefit from playing weak-side where his athleticism is emphasized.
And they could turn around and sign him in the 2011 offseason or Kendrick Perkins or Marc Gasol. So they are not without options. I would love to see this trade go down.
I heard that Michael Jordan was gay, therefore you can take my word for it if he's gay or not. But you should believe me cause I heard it from multiple friends of his.
Yeah, because that's exactly what I said.
It's incredible how many people lack reading comprehension.
This was said or written by someone who covers the league. You think they just thought to themselves, "I'll just make up the weight of Noah and pass it off as fact, maybe I can fool people into thinking he's 28 pounds over his listed weight"?
I'll admit, he doesn't look 260 to me. But Bosh didn't look 5 pounds heavier than Duncan last season, but he was (he said it himself coming into camp that he was 245). That's just how it goes with some guys. Varejao is listed at 260, does he look it? Not to me.
So you can't show any proof for the claim he bulked up to 260? Thanks for playing.
He might be listed as straight, but I know some people that know some people that know some people that saw Michael Jordan taking it up the ass from a goat.
Because you're trying to argue Boozer is a good fit next to Noah, and if Noah weighs 230 as an undersized center, your claim is re ed.
lol questioning my credibility
I read that it was a sheep, not a goat. I heard it from someone that covers sheeps and goats so he knows what he's talking about. I'll admit that sheeps can look like goats. But I didn't just make that up.
Wow. This is ridiculous. I either heard or read it (can't remember) from someone who would know the difference between a sheep and a goat. You think somebody would make up something like this? Who would do that? Why would they do it? Think about this logically and stop trying to get me on a technicality like the difference between a sheep and a goat.
You acted like players couldn't be listed one weight, but be another. I gave you the Duncan "proof", I pointed out seemingly lanky guys who are around Noah's weight, like Garnett (has been listed at 253 in the past), Gasol (currently listed at 250) and Varejao (currently listed at 260). I don't give a , believe what you want, just don't pretend I acted as if I got this news from a friend, because I never did that.
Proof, evidence, do you realize how ridiculous you sound? We're talking about the weight of a player, not putting someone in jail.
Why would I, or the person who said this, have made it up?
cool, you gave me proof Duncan weighs 240.
here's proof John Amaechi is gay:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2757105
I guess that means Michael Jordan is gay and takes it up the ass from goats.
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