Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot In Arizona

[ElNono]

Let's see the mug when he gets the injection...

[Winehole23]

I don't remember saying that they don't have the right to say these things, WH. However, I do remember pointing out several times that free speech and positions of authority come with responsibilities.

Disappointments, too.

I made it a point to make it very clear that I didn't want legislation because I knew someone would bust out the free speech argument.

Acknowledged. Let's move on.

However, to say she was merely pointing out a possible outcome with no intent is naive as all .

No one said so.

Her intent was obviously to sway - as a warning to what might happen if the ruling doesn't go the way they'd like.

To those who believe as she does, this can serve as a legitimacy to act out against a judiciary they see as corrupt and out of control. By acknowledging this even as a plausible action she gives it so much legitimacy that its not even funny.

And that right there underscores the point of how irresponsible it is. Even if she has no intent to use it as anything other that a weak scare tactic to try and strong arm a judge thats not how everyone supporting their cause may view it. Its a perfect example of irresponsible rhetoric that gives legs to those who already hold anti government sentiments and those she represents.

Sure. Free speech ain't pretty, or to put it another way, it's at least as ugly as we are.

(lol at Orly Taitz strong-arming judges.)

[MannyIsGod]

Props to the police for keeping their cool. God only knows how this er made it to that mug shot without a scratch on his face.

[Winehole23]

(I heard somewhere people in the crowd managed to hold him up until LE arrived. True or false?)

[MannyIsGod]

Disappointments, too.
Acknowledged. Let's move on.
No one said so. Sure. Free speech ain't pretty, or to put it another way, it's at least as ugly as we are.

(lol at Orly Taitz strong-arming judges.)

Oh I'm sure its not going to work against the judges on the supreme court (or any court, for that matter). In fact that makes it even more irresponsible.

There will likely always be people saying irresponsibly, of course. That doesn't mean we have to accept it or condone it.

[Crookshanks]

That's one scary looking dude. But in a way, he looks like Uncle Fester from the Addams Family!

[Winehole23]

There will likely always be people saying irresponsibly, of course. That doesn't mean we have to accept it or condone it.

Absolutely not. But calling such speakers accessories to murder is factually wrong.

[DarrinS]

(I heard somewhere people in the crowd managed to hold him up until LE arrived. True or false?)

A 75 yr old retired military guy, from what I've read.

[Crookshanks]

(I heard somewhere people in the crowd managed to hold him up until LE arrived. True or false?)

True - they interviewed a woman on Fox News who was one of the people who helped subdue the shooter. She's also the one who got the magazine away from him.

[MannyIsGod]

I didn't say they were accessories to murder because I agree that would be factually wrong.

[Winehole23]

Thx for the updates, DarrinS and Crookshanks.

[Winehole23]

I didn't say they were accessories to murder because I agree that would be factually wrong.

You've suggested as much, wouldn't you agree?

[MannyIsGod]

Absolutely not. Considering I haven't said once what they have done is illegal but irresponsible how in the could one draw the conclusion I considered them accessories to murder? Being an accessory to murder is a clear crime of active assistance, WH. Irresponsible speech that I may find disgusting does not go that far and I've NEVER said as much.

[Winehole23]

Since you deny it, I suppose that's the end of it.

Thanks for clearing that up. Clearly, I was mistaken.

[Winehole23]

(I thought you had already agreed to it. My bad.)

[RandomGuy]

A 75 yr old retired military guy, from what I've read.

Anybody know where Xray lives?

Honestly, they guy is lucky that bystanders didn't beat him into pulp. I'm sure I would be less than kind to someone who just shot that many people, respect for law or no.

The guy deserves a fair trial, but I wouldn't be all that sad if somehow his neck had been snapped in the struggle.

[MannyIsGod]

(I thought you had already agreed to it. My bad.)

I agreed that they can incite violence but not that its a level that should be considered illegal. There's a fundamental reason why I keep saying irresponsible and not illegal.

[CuckingFunt]

Do you mean in reality, or in yours and Yonivore's threads on the subject? Because I don't think it's a stretch to believe you both would be ALL OVER the partisan angle if the congresswoman were Republican. Sorry.

Anyway, I agree that labeling this guy for partisan brownie points is ridiculous. As is the endless haughty bloviating about the broad societal ills that caused the shooting.

There's really not a whole lot to learn here. It wasn't about crosshairs or books or vitriol in the media or Obamacare or religion or gun control, it's about a ing nutjob going psycho.

Party cheerleading, 24-hour news and political rage certainly have consequences but a lone nihilistic idiot going on a shooting rampage is the least of those. Sometimes tragedy can't be conveniently explained away, nor prevented.

I haven't caught up in the thread, but I do want to post right now and say that it really is irrelevant which side does the irresponsible rhetoric more. There should really be a public backlash against it at all times.

Honestly, it speaks to us as a society that this goes down to begin with.

Agree completely with both.

[CuckingFunt]

Give it up Manny - stop with the blaming. The guy is a nut job - plain and simple. This is not the fault of the Tea Party. Don't you have some weather to go study?

I don't see why this is continually separated into two, discrete, either/or scenarios in this thread. Either he's a plain and simple nut job, or his actions must have been a direct result of Tea Party rhetoric. Why not both? Or neither?

[Crookshanks]

Someone who accomplished what he came to do. Dude's a mental case, and possibly under the effects of mind control. I haven't been following too closely due to other things going on but I've heard talk of them seeking a 2nd older suspect, possibly the dude's "handler?" Can anyone elaborate more on this? Not surprising because anyone can give a nutcase some drugs, money, and encouragement and get him to do crazy , just look at Bum Fights.

The older "person of interest" has been cleared. He was just a taxi cab driver who drove the shooter to the store.

[MannyIsGod]

"Sarah, as you know, peace is always the answer. I know you're feeling the same heat -- if not much more -- on this.

I want you to know you have my support. But please look into protection for your family. An attempt on you could bring the republic down.

Please, call Gavin de Becker in Los Angeles. He is the guy that protects me. They are, bar none, the best. There are nut jobs on all sides."

Glen Beck.

The kind of mindset that we're so close to civil war that an attempt on Palin would bring the republic down is amazing to me. I don't for a second believe that an attack on anyone in our government could bring the Republic down.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

For what, comparing politics to a street brawl, or alluding to guns and knives figuratively?

Yes

[MannyIsGod]

"The ubiquitous nature of the Internet means that not only threats but also hate speech and other inciteful speech is much more readily available to individuals than quite clearly it was 8 or 10 or 15 years ago. That absolutely presents a challenge for us, particularly when it results in what would be lone wolves or lone offenders undertaking attacks."

-- FBI Director Robert Mueller, quoted by the New York Times.

[MannyIsGod]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...#ixzz1AXbGyLn1


The Arizona Republic highlights the heroic actions of Daniel Hernandez, a new intern for Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ), who ran towards the gunfire in yesterday's shooting and likely saved lives, including that of the congresswoman.

"When the shots began that morning, he saw many people lying on the ground, including a young girl. Some were bleeding. Hernandez said he moved from person to person checking pulses... Then he saw Giffords. She had fallen and was lying contorted on the sidewalk. She was bleeding. Using his hand, Hernandez applied pressure to the entry wound on her forehead. He pulled her into his lap, holding her upright against him so she wouldn't choke on her own blood."

"He stayed with Giffords until paramedics arrived. They strapped her to a board and loaded her into an ambulance. Hernandez climbed in with her. On the ride to the hospital, he held her hand. She squeezed his back."

[redzero]

Why do people even care about this Palin in the first place? The same goes for the other side.

I doubt the dude was walking around one day, saw a flier or whatever with a bullseye on it and decided "I think I will shoot up a Congresswoman today."

The dude is ing crazy. Crazy people do crazy things. The end.