Reply With QuoteJack seems to have a knack for showing up in a big game. Now you want to run him off just for someone who has better regular season stats with the Clippers. F that.
You people are acting like Maggette was the ONLY friggin free agent I mentioned. Read ALL of the posts. Maggette would be my third perimeter player to go after, only after we sign our big (Brand). To say that Maggette is not a huge upgrade over Jack is a mistake. Sure Jack hit some big shots, but we are going to have to pay for those shots. A lot of people are slating Jack into the 4 Milllion a year slot. For 2 more million, you could have Maggette, possibly Payton, and you'd be sniffing at Arenas. You people are going to sit here and tell me you would rather have Jack and his inconsistencies, turnovers, disappearing acts, and general stupidity over one of these three???? I know we just won it all, but wake up and smell the NBA.
Jack seems to have a knack for showing up in a big game. Now you want to run him off just for someone who has better regular season stats with the Clippers. F that.
You know, Portland built a team with your philosophy. 'Upgrade' wherever they could without any focus on building any chemistry whatsoever. Ginobili's stats weren't exceptional this season...does that mean the Spurs should drop him for someone who is an "upgrade"? He just proved that he is a big game player.
Teams win championships. Selecting lineups that maximize stats gives you Portland.
Exactly. You are 100% right on that.You know, Portland built a team with your philosophy. 'Upgrade' wherever they could without any focus on building any chemistry whatsoever. Ginobili's stats weren't exceptional this season...does that mean the Spurs should drop him for someone who is an "upgrade"? He just proved that he is a big game player.
Teams win championships. Selecting lineups that maximize stats gives you Portland.
Please, that same thinking also gives you the Celts and Lakers of the '80's. MB - take off the homer colored glasses for a minute and look at Jack's true value. If you were a GM, would you give Jack 4+ miliion a year? Jack is unstable at best.
I understand Jack has his value, I'm not disputing that. What I am disputing is his value compared to what we can add in his place.
IF we can get Arenas for 6, or Jack for 4, who would you take?
IF we can get Payton for 6, or Jack for 4, who would you take?
IF we can get Maggette for 6, or Jack for 4, who would you take?
I understand we just won, and you have warm and fuzzies for Jack, but just think back for a minute. How many times during this playoff run did you find yourself cursing Jack? How many times were you stupefied at his constant turnovers? All is forgotten by you now because of a huge fourth quarter to clinch, but for me, I'm all about the big picture pal. Jack was nonexistant for most of the playoffs, and you only want me to remember him for ONE quarter?
The Big Picture:
Jack is very upgradeable, and we might have the money to do it after we sign a big. If we have the ability to land Arenas, do it. If not, and we have the ability to land Payton, do it. If not, and we have the ability to land Maggette, do it. If not, resign Jack.
Get a clue, coz.
Fantasy all-star lineups don't win championships teams do. Damn, the Spurs won one with an AJ and Elie starting backcourt.
And of course you are forgetting that signing one of those players instead of Jack means that you just burned $6+ mil in cap space that you didn't need to on a non-great player. Brilliant. Call me a homer all you want but at least I'm not clueless.
You aren't seeing the big picture you are ignoring it. You build a team not a bunch of guys with great regular season stats. Things like chemistry and clutch play under playoff pressure do matter. Why do you think a guy like Steve Kerr was worth a five year deal back in '99? Because the man comes through when championships are on the line...not padding his stats with a lottery bound team. Kerr as well buys into the team concept and doesn't skip practices like Arenas nor refuse to play because of a friggin' toenail like Maggette.
Jack's stats aren't horrible and neither is his game. You don't waste precious cap room on a position when you aren't adding a superstar.
And of course it's not a great precedent to run a guy off who just helped you win a le in a big way.
It's called warm, fuzzy, common sense.
Where in this entire thread did I say that one of those three would be the only free agent to pursue? I thought I made it abundantly clear that the Spurs should go after a big first, and find a perimeter threat second. Let me rehash my scenario for you, since you obviously skipped the first few pages of this thread, choosing only to read what you wanted and extole the virtues of Jackson upon me.
S&T - Malik and Claxton for Brand
FA - Arenas/Payton/Maggette
Draft Perkins
Bring in Scola
Roster fill with available $
Starting 5
Parker
Payton/Arenas/Maggette
Bowen
Brand
Duncan
Bench
Kerr(with hopefully Arenas/Payton sliding to point)
Manu
Jack (If he resigns at a REASONABLE price)
Scola
Willis
Perkins
FA
FA
My scenario would involve a rotation of the perimeter players with Parker and Payton/Arenas starting. Parker would get a blow and Manu would come in. Payton/Arenas would shift to point. Jack would come in for Bowen.
If we couldn't get Payton/Arenas, Jack would have to be packaged in the S&T instead of Claxton. Resign Speedy if Maggette is the FA perimeter prize.
Also, I understand the "chemistry and team" concept. Do you understand the "Talent" concept? Good guys are important, the fact that they can play is important also.
Payton: proven leader, wants to win, period.
Maggette: will to succeed, has improved by working his rear end off every year in a do nothing franchise. Has the will to win, and to be better.
Arenas: The player I am unsure of, but based on athletics alone, would be a good gamble.
Finally:
"And of course you are forgetting that signing one of those players instead of Jack means that you just burned $6+ mil in cap space that you didn't need to on a non-great player. Brilliant. Call me a homer all you want but at least I'm not clueless."
umm, so resigning Jack doesn't count against our cap???? WTF are you talking about? If we sign Jack for $4 mil, or we sign Arenas/Payton/Maggette for $6 that would equal $2 million more that we have against the cap. For $2 mil, that is a great upgrade.
"Why do you think a guy like Steve Kerr was worth a five year deal back in '99? Because the man comes through when championships are on the line...not padding his stats with a lottery bound team."
So why did we ship his ass to Portland? I can tell you the ONLY reason we took him back is because his contract is up, and we needed AD gone to free up some PT for Jack/Manu.
Also, when was the last time you saw Maggette perform in the playoffs? How do you know? You choose to ignore stats because they refute your argument, the thing you are missing is that the numbers NEVER LIE. They are factual data, not opinions or interpretations.
The facts are this:
Maggette put up better numbers on a worse team. Maggette was the focus(on the perimeter) of any defense facing the Clips.
Maggette does not play with Tim Duncan
Maggette is a far superior athlete
Maggette is a better shooter
Maggette has the potential to be an All Star, Jack does not.
OK I can't let this slide:
Actually there were two big quarters (Game 6 v Suns, Game 6 v Nets) and one big half (Game 6 v Mavs) in the playoffs for SJax.I understand we just won, and you have warm and fuzzies for Jack, but just think back for a minute. How many times during this playoff run did you find yourself cursing Jack? How many times were you stupefied at his constant turnovers? All is forgotten by you now because of a huge fourth quarter to clinch, but for me, I'm all about the big picture pal. Jack was nonexistant for most of the playoffs, and you only want me to remember him for ONE quarter?
Looking at his stats (as you suggest we do) for the playoffs one finds that Jack averaged 16 points per game, 3.5 assists, 4.8 rebounds, and 1.17 steals versus the Suns in that series. Of course you forgot that when you decided to run him off for some guys who were in Cancun at the time. And of course that doesn't count the big shots Jack hit in that game late.
Jack did struggle versus the Lakers with a couple of decent games, while Ginobili had his best series.
Versus the Mavs SJackson had his best series, averaging 16.3 points per game on 49.3% shooting from the field (35.3% from beyond the arc) 2.5 assists, 3.2 rebounds, and 2 steals per contest. "Nonexistent"? Take off your Jack hater glasses. Those stats include the 24 points he dropped in Game 6 of that series (8-14 FG, 5-7 3PTs)...most of which came during the crucial second half in which the Spurs came back from 15 down. And don't tell me it was Kerr. Kerr hit his first three after a Jack led comeback got the Spurs to within 3.
So a look at the playoff stats shows that SJackson performed well in the Phoenix and Dallas series and was a major factor in three of the four clinching Game 6s that the Spurs played in the playoffs, including his three big 3s to win a championship.
In the interest of presenting a fair comparison I looked for the playoff stats of Arenas and Maggette, but was unable to find any. Perhaps you know where they are.
umm, so resigning Jack doesn't count against our cap???? WTF are you talking about? If we sign Jack for $4 mil, or we sign Arenas/Payton/Maggette for $6 that would equal $2 million more that we have against the cap. For $2 mil, that is a great upgrade.
Jack is an Early Bird free agent and he will count roughly $900K against the cap until the Spurs re-sign him. The Spurs are free to use that $15 mil in cap space on other free agents, then go over the cap to re-sign Jack to that new deal. That's what the **** I am talking about, Einstein.
You're right, the numbers don't lie. Unfortunately you decided not to base your analysis on all of the data available. Thus you were led to an incorrect conclusion.Also, when was the last time you saw Maggette perform in the playoffs? How do you know? You choose to ignore stats because they refute your argument, the thing you are missing is that the numbers NEVER LIE. They are factual data, not opinions or interpretations.
"In the interest of presenting a fair comparison I looked for the playoff stats of Arenas and Maggette, but was unable to find any. Perhaps you know where they are."
LOL, OK, true, but put Timmy on their respective teams, and they get some stats.
One question, how many TO's did Jack have in the playoffs?
Also, take this argument into account if you will:
The Laker series, as you said was his worst, pitted us up against a team that played honest defense on us. They were the only team that didn't send double, triple, and quadruple teams at Timmy. How does Jack respond to honest defense? By disppearing.
ANY NBA pro should make open 3's..... We give these guys so much props for making OPEN SHOTS. Kerr said it best after the Mavs series:
paraphrasing: "those are shots I should make, I was wide open"
I'm just trying to inform here MB, please take this knowledge.
I would like to respond but you provided nothing intelligible to respond to. Sorry.
"Unfortunately you decided not to base your analysis on all of the data available."
pray tell, oh Yoda of the internet, what stats did I "neglect"?
Playoffs, numbnuts.
And of course you failed to recognize that your use of $6 million of the Spurs' cap room to sign one of the regular season warriors would mean that the Spurs would only have from $8 to 10 million free to use to address other areas of concern.
But hey, the playoff untested Corey Maggette is going to lead the Spurs to victory...toenail and all.
Wow. I did not know Jackson's numbers were that good in the playoffs. Still, you did overlook turnovers. Having said that, I recall a few turnovers occured because his teammates were not looking for his pass. Yes, he plays recklessly sometimes, but I think he will improve and play with greater control - at least I expect him too.
Besides, it's all moot. Really, what are the odds that Pop ships Jackson out of SA? ..... they are slim.
"Playoffs, numbnuts."
you know MB, I hate pissing contests over a medium like the internet, but you are a prick. I wonder if you are such an arrogant ass in real life, or this is just your persona when you can hide behind your pc?
The fact that you constantly start every take with something like "get a clue" or something derrogatory just serves to piss me off, and my guess is that is your point.
My idea was to sign a big with S&T (Brand) thus freeing up Malik's salary to land the perimeter threat. My thinking on this matter was that if Malik's salary is unloaded, we would have that much more to spend. If I'm wrong, sorry.
I obviously don't have the grasp of the CBA like you do, nor do I have the time to read and learn its nuances.
Do me one favor in the future however, don't read any posts by me. If I am so ignorant, I wouldn't want to waste your precious time reading them.
First of all, I am not convinced that Maggette can be had for just $6 million per year. He did a lot to improve his stock this year, and is a promising player. Someone will give him more than that.
In addition, I think Stephen Jackson has a ton of potential. He has improved as much as anyone in the league in just a year. Remember, he rarely played AT ALL in 2001-2002, and then this year he starts, plays solid defense (remember how he used to play awful defense?), gives us a slasher we haven't had, and hits some huge shots. This quote stood out at me while reading this thread:
We won every series in Game 6. In each of those Game 6's, it took a second half surge to pull away and get the win - a win that, at times, looked impossible to achieve. Stephen Jackson played big in three of our four Game 6's, and if not for his big shots, we would've likely faced a Game 7 in the Finals. You can't put a dollar value on clutch play.Actually there were two big quarters (Game 6 v Suns, Game 6 v Nets) and one big half (Game 6 v Mavs) in the playoffs for SJax. -Marcus Bryant
Second, I am tired of people making excuses for our guys because they play on the same team as Tim Duncan (I'm not referring to you, coz). Sure, SJax gets some open looks because of teams doubling down on Tim, but it's not like the Clippers don't have any offensive threats down low. Brand commands a double team, and Olowokandi does on given nights as well. Lamar Odom requires some attention from opposing teams also, so it's not like Maggette was out there by himself as the sole star on his team. But that shouldn't matter anyway. Guys still have to make shots. Besides, SJax creates shots for other Spurs as well with his slashing to the basket. Although he tries to force the issue at times, he is a guy with good court vision. His decision making will get better with time.
Maggette is a good player, but not worth what he will command given the other holes on our team. Getting more than one Clipper this summer (hopefully Brand) would be risky. There is a reason why they did not make the playoffs, so raiding the stars off of their team makes little sense. Olowokandi, Maggette, and Odom are all talented players, but I would only advocate spending money on any of those three if they could be had for a good price. Maggette will probably turn out to be the best of that bunch, but as I stated earlier, doesn't seem to fit well in our lineup. Olowokandi is still raw, and Odom is one drug charge away from a serious suspension.
Our money can be better spent elsewhere.
I love you too, coz.
if it were up to you guys jackson never would have started over "playoff performer" Steve Smith so what the do you know
If it were up to you the Spurs would be starting Lenny Cooke.
I doubt Sterling would go for this trade scenario. He's not into long term contracts like Malik's and the trade is pretty lopsided. Brand would have to force his hand for anything like this to transpire.My idea was to sign a big with S&T (Brand) thus freeing up Malik's salary to land the perimeter threat. My thinking on this matter was that if Malik's salary is unloaded, we would have that much more to spend. If I'm wrong, sorry.
My idea is not to rip up a championship team like some virtual GM's want to.
tell that to LA
the ideal would be to sign jermaine o'neal outright which would not "rip" up our championship squad. but what if that can't happen
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