But, Bird was white. Your guys aren't.
huh?
Between 1980-1989
Lakers won '80,82,85,87,88 (5)
Boston won '81, '84 and '86 (3)
Lakers dominated the '80's with a back-to-back thus establishing a "dynasty"
Bird Celtics were never a dynasty in that decade. Now, you wanna talk about the 60's?...you got me there
help me understand your reasoning.....
Last edited by TheManFromAcme; 05-13-2011 at 02:27 PM.
I'm with you on everything but the playoff drout part... If we hold to all those principles.. there is no way we go that long not making th playoffs. Proud to be a true spurs fan.
I never said that Pop, RC or Spurs' ownership was resting on their laurels. I was referring to Splitman4evah. Below are the things that the Spurs have totally messed up on - things that were in their control.
Maybe it would be easier to concede failure and remember the championships, but I don't think I can do it - my father didn't raise me to be a quitter. I hold the FO and Pop accountable as a fan because of their inability to provide the big 3 with the supporting cast necessary for another championship.
The Spurs are like an older prize fighter in his last rounds of his last fight. He's been knocked down and I'm yelling at him to get up while you're reminiscing about his good ole days and what a good guy he is. Maybe I'm the fool for thinking he can get up.
I feel for Tim as he's been cheated by the FO (especially after what he's done for the organization) - if that's being a hater, so be it.
Nice detour from the point I was making. Whether or not your father raised you to be a quitter, you aren't playing the game. You are sitting on your couch watching. Did your father raise you to be a fan? Your post also begs the question of whether or not I was suggesting quitting or submitting. I am doing neither. I have as much influence on the decision of the Spurs as you have from your home on the decision of the fighter to get off the canvas. If the fighter has been knocked out already, I prefer that fighter retire instead of getting killed in the ring. The Spurs aren't down for the count. The count happened a few weeks ago. Their future is up to them, not me. I just posted that I have always enjoyed the team, and especially these past few years.
I could take the demanding approach as well, but you will just be butt hurt eventually. Tim Duncan isn't going to be reincarnated, and if he was, he wouldn't come to the Spurs. Until the Spurs become a lottery team, they will never have the buying power or luck to get a Dwight Howard, Lebron, Wade, Carmelo, Amar'e, or anyone of that level. Instead we will have to accept the retiring McDyesses and Glenn Robinsons of the league. We will get people like Mo Williams, but not people like Dwight Howard. We can probably get a Darko, but not Kevin Love.
Seriously, look at the Spurs. They have always been one or two really great 1st overall picks and some really insanely fortunate pickups and old vets who push for that one ring they never got.
It's what you accept when you are a Spurs fan. You can for the best in the league, it's not going to happen.
Any team who plays Bonner for 30 minutes a game isn't going to attract big talent.
Thanks for pretending I was asking you to join me though. Thanks also for pretending "quitting" is synonymous with gra ude.
I've seen this fighter for many years. I knew this fighter's father. I care about the well being of this fighter. I won't on him just for the thrill of supporting a winner.The Spurs are like an older prize fighter in his last rounds of his last fight. He's been knocked down and I'm yelling at him to get up while you're reminiscing about his good ole days and what a good guy he is. Maybe I'm the fool for thinking he can get up.
He's gotten 4 rings. He's not been cheated. Had he been cheated, he's smart enough to know and had a chance to leave.I feel for Tim as he's been cheated by the FO (especially after what he's done for the organization) - if that's being a hater, so be it.
Sorry, but that river you are crying doesn't go anywhere I want to be.
No one understands the capabilities of Tim and Manu like Pop. If Manu doesn't get hurt before the playoffs, it's a different result. Same for Tim. happens. Deal with it and move on. In my mind, the Spurs are still the struggling team who have mustered 4 rings out of the fights they've been in. They aren't the favored dynasty team that the Lakers and Bulls were.
Ask whatever you like. I've been watching this team since the early 80's. They are still that team to me. I didn't first find them on the cover of Sports Illustrated after their championship.
They would have been with any other coach. Pop has never coached a team to outperform expectations. IF you were a fan from the 80s you would know that POP didnt settle for near accomplishments. Thats exactly how he took Hill's job when Dave got injured. Now he's ridden Duncan to the end of the line and he is being exposed. Pop doesnt know SQUAT. Hes does a nice job with character recruitment, but he doesnt develop ANYONE. Any coach in the league now, 100 years ago, or 100 years after could have won rings with at least 4 of our squads from 1997 on. Its telling that we didnt win more. Its also time that pop followed his own advice and get fired for not only not winning with the best on paper team in the NBA but also nose diving when it counts 4th Q and playoffs.
He's never had "it" and he never will.
You expected 61 wins from this group? Show me the prediction thread.
Phil got exposed too it seems. Everyone gets exposed when their resources diminish. Coaches coach, they don't play.IF you were a fan from the 80s you would know that POP didnt settle for near accomplishments. Thats exactly how he took Hill's job when Dave got injured. Now he's ridden Duncan to the end of the line and he is being exposed.
Post hoc.Pop doesnt know SQUAT. Hes does a nice job with character recruitment, but he doesnt develop ANYONE. Any coach in the league now, 100 years ago, or 100 years after could have won rings with at least 4 of our squads from 1997 on. Its telling that we didnt win more. Its also time that pop followed his own advice and get fired for not only not winning with the best on paper team in the NBA but also nose diving when it counts 4th Q and playoffs.
Our squads were only good because they had good coaching. The Spurs coaching team would get the Wolves to the playoffs at least.
He's got 4 rings that say otherwise. Larry Brown didn't get them, Bob Hill didn't get them, Jerry Lucas didn't get them, Tark didn't either. Whatever it takes to get rings, Pop has them.He's never had "it" and he never will.
You likely don't know what "it" is.
You seem to think that its so easy to keep the Spurs dynasty rolling. I don't think you realize how hard it is to win a championship. The Spurs have had a great run, but all dynasties eventually end. This Spur's team has gotten old and because the Spur's ownership doesn't possess the deep pockets, nor the trade assets to acquire top level talent, they are pretty much doing the only thing possible as far as trying to contend. You rant and rave about the FO's inability to put a decent surrounding cast around Duncan, but given the Spur's dynamics, small market, ownerships limited finances, please throw out some examples, or to be specific, players, the Spurs could of acquired. They reupped Ginoboli and Parker. Although the RJ sigining is a bust, at the time it looked like a solid sigining. Its okay to hate, and to be disappointed, but try being alittle more realistic about this team.
wait a second - I'm not playing and I'm not on the team? Crap, I thought I was and now I'm just upset.
Ok, mighty Spur fan from the 80's - let me explain how Duncan was cheated. Duncan was cheated after he helped the Spurs win 4 rings and took less money to help win an addtional champion ship or two, but FO failed to acquire the right pieces to help Tim get at least one more. It wasn't just because he was a nice guy - he wanted to help the organization spend the money to get the right personnel and they failed him.
And yes, when you concede the run is over you have given up and that makes you a quitter. And don't give me this realist crap because the reality is that the FO has underachieved since 2007, but some of you won't admit it.
+1
FO dropped the ball big time, there is no doubt about that.
Scola thread?
Where did I claim that it was easy? If you said I was overvaluing the talent fo the big 3 for the past 4 years, you might have a better argument.
The Spurs ownership's budget had nothing to do with the Finley extension, Butler being signed and Scola not, RJ being resigned and Bonner being resigned. RJ had done nothing with the Spurs to warrant a resigning. Bonner being resigned was all about Pop trying to make a failed stategy work.
You want specifics - it's kind of hard to do so, since I'm just a fan that only sees information in the press after the fact. But I don't have to be a quarterback coach to notice that a player with a 35% completion rate has some accuracy issues. Look here are some free agents that I feel the Spurs had a shot (or long shot) at in 2010 instead of going with RJ (trade him during the reg. season) and Bonner:
-Outlaw, J. O'Neal, Warrick, D. Wright, W. Matthews, M. Barnes, R. Brewer, Frye, Scola, etc.
The Scola and RJ situations probably had quite a bit to do with budgetary concerns.
Some of you guys are ing re ed.
'
The FO did screw up massively on Scola. They also screwed up by resigning RJ. However, since acquiring Duncan, the FO has done a decent job at putting pieces that fit around Tim that excel in specific areas. Getting Manu, Parker, Bruce, Horry, Barry, Nazr, six players who all contributed meaningfully to an NBA le. In 2008, they tried to trade for Kurt Thomas and they even got Barry back. , they tried to trade for J.R. Smith a couple seasons prior to that and they took a chance and traded for RJ in 2009 who most people that would fit in decently as he wouldn't be relied on to score.
They've made some blunders, but to say they haven't been fairly successful and have failed at/trying to put pieces around Tim, is flat out stupid. It's very difficult to win an NBA le. Some of you think just because we had Tim that he should've had more les and Pop ed it up somehow, when in reality, Pop's system + players around Duncan + Duncan's prime skill = championships, and you need all components. There's a reason players like Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen never won a ring until they teamed up. And while Piece and Allen are way below Duncan's level, Garnett is only a tier below mostly due to a lack of hardware.
it's not as clear cut as just saying because the Spurs had Tim Duncan they should have won another ring. The Spurs having Tim, Tony and Manu should have at least kept them in the running during '09, '10 and '11.
Also, pre-2007 the Spurs made some pretty great moves, but since 2007 there have been no more Horry, Barry, Bruce, Jackson, Elie, Nazr signings. Thomas and Gooden were decent, but not enough.
I understand the intention, but what was the net effect on the budget?
The net effect was not losing several million dollars.
I think everyone can appreciate the difficulty in operating an NBA franchise within a budget and putting a successful product on the floor year after year. The difficulty seems to be in player development. Maybe there can only be so much energy and resource and just pure luck devoted to development, but the Spurs FO probably has a few regrets as well.
Now I'm not following you - you're saying the latest RJ contract will save the Spurs several million dollars?
Not signing Scola saved them several millions of dollars? I understand dumping Butler was involved, but I don't believe they made lemonade out of the lemons they got themselves into there.
It already has.
It wasn't a basketball move. It was a money move.Not signing Scola saved them several millions of dollars? I understand dumping Butler was involved, but I don't believe they made lemonade out of the lemons they got themselves into there.
Both moves allowed the Spurs to avoid the luxury tax for one or more seasons, and subsequently claim their share of the luxury tax collected from teams that did pay it.
I get the Scola/Butler - luxury tax avoidance, but in terms of the money lost from the team not advancing further in the playoffs (I understand you can't pin that on a player or a couple of players), it probably didn't save them money in the long run. Would Scola have helped in '08, '09, '10 and '11 - I believe so. He signed for 9.5 mil/3 year deal in '07 a year after the Spurs signed Butler to a 7 mil/3 year deal - that's just terrrible.
While the RJ contract saved them in 2011, his overall contract will be a hard one to unload and in doing so, it's possible they lose the money that they saved. Ticket sales are also imporant to a budget and losing in the playoffs doesn't help and players that don't play well won't sell tickets either.
You're absolutely right, and that's all well and good, but I would think that, ultimately, it should be about basketball. I realize that it's a delicate balance, but the priority should be about winning, right?
I would think that championships would generate revenue . . .
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